1+ bump Alienb =)

Good post, alienb

I must confess though, I too have issues with the INM. Mainly for one thing, they allow blue pirates/Griefers to run and hide amongst the INM, and will take out any force opposing said griefers.

This has given the feeling that the INM as a force loves griefers and supports their actions.

I hope that is what you want.

IMHO, what Cerberus did was provoked, amq-second was station mining long before Cerberus did, he di what in the situation he thought was right, and he asked Zeplin, and Zeplin gave him permission.
The whole thing was kicked off when Cerb killed Cleveland as he tried to steal Frig cargo (not sure of this, correct me if i am wrong and you were there), Cleveland moaned on pchat that Cerb pirated him, and SirCamps in the form of Serco Fighter One decided to take things into his own hands and dispose of Cerberus' brand-new and hard-earned Marauder, which did not go down well.
Cerberus may have been wrong, but Serco Fighter One was most definetely wrong as the issue had nothing to do with him (not even as a nation, Cleveland is NT, Cerberus is Itani, Serco Fighter One is Serco)

What Mace was just plain wrong, he was not roleplaying, as his name still said Mace and he was making no attempt to hide the fact that it was him, and i am ashamed to say i gave Mace 30000 (not knowing he was going to use it to fund his activities).

Having another char that pirates/griefs/n00bkills is fine, infact while the whole thing with Mace was going on i was off pirating on another char, with a completely different name, completely seperate from "[INM] randomblast", "randomblast", "Randomblast The Second", and "Randomblast The Third".
That is roleplaying.
SirCamps' "roleplaying" is not roleplaying, because all of his characters do exactly the same things, the only difference is the nation they are on.
It's not even any secret that SF1, WotS, SirCamps, and Confederate Valkyrie are the same person.
SirCamps just likes controversy, he likes causing trouble, and he likes being the center of attention.
If he wishes to declare war on the INM, so be it, i have been attacked without provocation by him many times, even before i joined the INM, as have others, so his war really makes no difference.

On the side note of replying to your point about me, Warrior of the Sun is not like Serco Fighter 1. SF1 is a Serco fighter pilot (duh), Warrior of the Sun is a more benevolent creature. Don't like it? Fine, but they are different names bearing no resemblance to each other, and I use them both depending on what I want to do that day.

Secondly, since the issue with Cereberus came up again, I'll tell what happened (random got it mostly correct).

Cereberus was attacking the frigate in 16 when "Cleveland, GA" came in and joined in, getting the kill. Out of frustration Cereberus attacked Cleve, and then later killed him when Cleve was trying to get cargo. Cleve whined on global chat that there was a pirate in 16, so I came in, found out what happened, and killed Cereberus. There were many altercations (including the involvement of Sherpa), which I'd rather not go into, but I finally sat Cereberus down in 9 and got him to agree not to attack people in 16, not to interrupt duels (he fired on Lin saying "hell, it's a war"), and not to station-mine. This incident was settled, random, and I don't think we need to bring it up again.

Regarding this whole post, I think SL started it to complain, but all I want is a statement of purpose regarding the INM. I've now had Durgia and Alienb say such things as "we're at war" and "we want to take over sectors 1-18, 40-46." Now I'm not sure why you want to take over 46, but that's the attitude I'm hearing. So, unless anyone says anything more on the subject, I'm assuming that INM wants universal domination. Am I not correct?

[INM] Mace has removed himself from the Itani Nation Military.

You believe what you want to, we dont have to justify our actions to you. I said it all in my post, end of topic.

Camps, if WotS and SF1 are different people, then so are mace and [INM]Mace. Also, camps, you said to keep out of other's people business yet you did that to cerb? REally that is not being constant. Finally my stands:
Cerberus: Undue interference by Camps

Mace: No laws broken; therefore he has done nothing wrong.

Alienb: Attacked unprovoked(Camps was typing), since INM doesn't have a KoS list, that was breaking the rules. Squad commanders should set the standards, not be above them.

Piro, you do not set, or know any INM policy. Remember you are in no way affiliated with the INM in ANY form. Camps was typing all three times? I find that rather hard to believe. My reasons stand. I don't care if he was typing, reading, or taking a shit, I'll attack any Serco Veteran that is known for mass killing of Itani Citizens.

First time he was, the second time i was DUELING him, and the third time he had no choice but to fight(A duel with you around is impossible). Also, INM effects the Itani nation as a whole, that might not mean much to you seeing as how you went to NT then came back whining about tri-flares, however to certain players that means a lot. Eldrad is on a train, so i doubt you could hear his stance, but a while ago(Before this whole mess) we were talking about the KoS list proposition(*gasp* they talk to none INM people about INM policy, imagine Alien!), suffice to say, unless things has changed since then you still don't have a list.

Edit: Though what did those PM's consist of, I would prefer exact content.

We don't have a KoS list. Our stance right now is to not create one. We simply note instances which deserve a follow-up, such as SF1's repeated unprovoked attack on both Itani Civilians and Military Personnel.

That sounds like a KoS list to me...

Piro, this thread has been miraculously flame-free, edit your post to keep it as such.

That said, I have been blue far longer than you have ever been playing. I made it very public when I temporarily switched to gold that I was still loyal to the Itani Nation, and that I was simply there to help out the somewhat abandoned Neutral n00bs, and try to kill some of the triflare valk jocks that were plaguing the Itani.

My loyalty is not in question, and I'm getting sick of defending it against another blue player, a relatively new one at that. You're also beating a dead horse, you need to read some of the previous posts before spouting off random garbage about something fairly unrelated. Thank you.

Piro, dont argue just to argue, try to have a purpose and reason, and something to back you up, ok?

I think I need to clear a few things up here. I was really tired typing that last post as I had not slept in 20 hours.

First off do not turn my words around to make them sound worse. Itani superiority does not mean we will pirate every pilot in vendetta. This does not mean we will greif noobs.

All this means is that an Itani can freely move without fear. This is superiority.

Now obviously you missed my sarcasm in my statement about s1-18 and 40-46. Use your head a bit to think about that for a bit.

The use of Lmines is Not allowed unless a Council Member gives permission. There is nothing else to say on this. If somebody breaks the rules we will disapline them in our own way.

As for the rest of my staements. Just because the INM may use tactics every once in awhile that are not moral, does not in anyway mean that we will use them all the time. We may blockade a sector, but it won't happen very often if at all. We may use bad tactics, will it happen all the time? No.

You have twisted a single situation into a mess that really did not need to be here. IMO this situation was 50% at fault of an indivdule that belonged to the INM and 50% your fault.

As far as Serco Fighter 1 goes... I have 4 accounts of you attacking Itani and INM people unprovoked b4 this incident(I looked this morning) Any action taken against SF1 is fine with me. WOTS has not been attacking unprovoked afaik and for the most part will be left alone.

Now people for gods sake use your head and think for a minute about this. The INM has been around since the reset. Just lately we have had a lot of new members, it will take a bit of time for them to adjust to our written and implied policy.

If you have a problem with any INM email the council. I believe the address is council@itani(dot)roguelazer(dot)com

"Cerberus may have been wrong, but Serco Fighter One was most definetely wrong as the issue had nothing to do with him (not even as a nation, Cleveland is NT, Cerberus is Itani, Serco Fighter One is Serco)"

-I don't see how this is even an issue. If I see Sercos pirating Itanis or Itanis pirating Sercos I jump in to help. (The trader, not the pirate)


"As Furball said, why is it ok for you to 'roleplay' IE grief others to your content, pirate, pillage, and do all the things you accuse the INM for, and then begin accusing an overall well-meaning guild of doing them? I'll tell you one thing, if there was one character trait I hate above all others, it's the hypocrite. Sircamps, you, and others, have absolutely no grounds to stand on with this subject. I will admit, as with any other guild, we have problems controlling some of the younger and more inexperienced members, but overall, we as a guild have shown the best overall squad control, and combat success, as well as member participation. I do my best to fix a situation when I hear about it, for instance your testimony was considered in an impromptu INM meeting regarding conduct."
-alienb, this entire paragraph is ad hominem against Camps. I'm fine with that, but it really fails to further your position in any way. I still want to know, what does the INM do? Should I be surprised if an INM flare-valk comes shooting at me for no reason, or should I treat them like the Serco Attack Wing?

"We do our best to conduct ourselves in a morally acceptable form, whenever possible."
-That's debatable. You've asked us to notify you of any INM members stepping out of line, what do you think this thread was about? Members had stepped out of line and we either want their behavior corrected, or we want you to admit that you support greifers and pirates so that people will know to be on their guard next time.

Well Said Alienb Well said. Couldn't have said it better myself.

The problem Magus is while part of what alienb posted was a personal attack against SirCamps what you do not seem to understand is that YET again SirCamps is attempting to "take the moral high ground" when he has no standing to do so. That is what I and MANY others take issue with.

Once again, And only ONCE again...The problems have been delt with. Regarding Mace who is no longer a member of INM, and Cerb, oh was serverly repremanded.

In regards to Alienb, After being threated by Camps, I would attack on sight as well.
Afterall he has founded SAW with exploited credits.
Camps doesnt deny this, Its all pritty obvious its an attempt to discredit INM. Same old stuff being brought up day in day out.
Hell its not like its one person, Its more like 20 messages a day regarding the same incidents while in online. Short memorys. While we are off trying to stop A.K.A from killing everyone, and your traders are safe, You sit here and bitch about a newbie being a newbie.
Totaly uncalled for.
Sudenly we have 2 year vets trying to kill all of us

To find out, Traitors have joined. Spys, and people that just want to kill us for the sake of uping there ratio.
What a waste of time it has become training new piolits only to have them switch teams when they feal out-guned.
Vendetta test has become a really unforgetable experiance for me, Showing that no one can be trusted, And that it really isnt worth the effort.

Oh yeah please continue to message me about this online, It will make my ignore list bigger.
Im really looking forward to it, as you can tell. Also make ya comments about INM griefing that will also add you to my ignore.
As it seems the lack of inability to read and let go of the "little" things, and yes it really is little, seems to be beyond the community at times.

Alright, then publicly acknowledging the traitors and kicking them out is the only way to go.

I have not started SAW, I am not a member, and I have given them no money. Don't know where you get that.

Again, read Pirogoeth's post:

"Durgia, the peace solution was known to alienb, it had been announced by zep, and alienb WAS Around when he did. Also, he declared hostilities for more than an hour, much good it did him, but still. Also, mantaining vendettas against people is not a wise thing to do especially for INM. Also, if i'm not mistaken you guys don't have a KoS list, and at the time camps had given no provocation. AlienB's actions must be examined, he did after all do it THREE times, an example must be set, the tone for Itani Nation Military must be decided with AlienB..."

Didn't feel like reading all the replies. But hey, as a general rule of thumb don't wear the tag of a clan/order/guild if you plan on breaking any of its rules. It's just typical clan etiquette. Most of the time they won't care as long as you're not representing them in one way or another. So cover up your tags and break all the rules you want!

woops double post

I did not flame you Alienb, and you sure as hell did not announce your allegience openly, hell, I still won't trust you and if we could shoot teammates, you would be up there with yooyoo for me.

Your intentions are your own, hell if you would ever be truthful about them, but that is not the purpose of this thread.

You people... was it not you Zeplin that were so adamant about not attack Serco Fighter 1, first? Was it not you that did not wish to hunt him down? Was it not you who said your council must first decide? So why change it now? Because AlienB has done the exact opposite? Mavericks who disobey orders are never good, in any clan in any game, especially reasoning such as "I felt like it". Or maybe because he can whine 'till someone's ears fall off(AlienB knows what i talk about, here)

AlienB, pulling a claim on the amount of time that someone has been here is pointless. The game always changes, the stuff of yesterday could be moot today, and the stuff of today moot tommorrow.
Your loyalty is in question, just as Camp's was while he was on Itani, in my eyes the situation is no different. You should be getting sick of defending your loyalty against another itani player - lying may do that.