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I mentioned a little about the faction redux that is yet finished in Incarnate's status update in the general discussion forum. He mentioned that a new faction thread be started about current issues and what we hope it to be. So here goes... http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/1/26216
As it stands, it isn't quite enough. Not to mention some people are still getting admired with both sides of the conflict somehow, I check faction standings of players regularly and I've taken note of some (not going to out them specifically) that they have admire with both serco and itani and that isn't how the faction is supposed to be implemented.
So there are those that are bypassing the faction system since it's "improvement" or the dialogue never came up (like it didn't for my valent/axia, except i reported it) and people are keeping hush hush about it. So this is one current issue that needs to be looked at.
---------------------------------
As far as improvements go, I would like to see military enlistment tank the opposing faction and make it impossible to rebuild that faction. As well as NOT taking the mission, prohibit purchase of specialized military craft such as: SVG, Prom, IBG, Valk. Not everyone should be able to fly these ships, only people in the military should have access. This removes the ability of itani improving their serco standing to get proms and vice versa. This solidifies your commitment with the military (and really it should be a commitment) and rewards you with access to military specially sanctioned craft and participation in the war.
As a side note: Stockpiled ships should be dealt with but player's credits spent on those ships should be returned to them in turn for removal of said ships.
That being said, if by chance a serco wants to tank their standing for whatever roleplay or gameplay reason he should be able to do so, however this should dishonorably discharge him from the military and make it impossible for him/her to return to their nation, My point for this is so people can't run back and forth.
As far as my opinion and suggestion goes, I honestly think utilizing the military enlistment mission is the best way to handle most of the faction issues. It doesn't reward people until they commit to their nation. And neutrals that are uit won't be able to purchase the specialized ships either, the current way faction is setup (when working properly) would work for true neutrals.
I don't know where i sit in terms of uit joining the military of itani or serco.
Discuss
As it stands, it isn't quite enough. Not to mention some people are still getting admired with both sides of the conflict somehow, I check faction standings of players regularly and I've taken note of some (not going to out them specifically) that they have admire with both serco and itani and that isn't how the faction is supposed to be implemented.
So there are those that are bypassing the faction system since it's "improvement" or the dialogue never came up (like it didn't for my valent/axia, except i reported it) and people are keeping hush hush about it. So this is one current issue that needs to be looked at.
---------------------------------
As far as improvements go, I would like to see military enlistment tank the opposing faction and make it impossible to rebuild that faction. As well as NOT taking the mission, prohibit purchase of specialized military craft such as: SVG, Prom, IBG, Valk. Not everyone should be able to fly these ships, only people in the military should have access. This removes the ability of itani improving their serco standing to get proms and vice versa. This solidifies your commitment with the military (and really it should be a commitment) and rewards you with access to military specially sanctioned craft and participation in the war.
As a side note: Stockpiled ships should be dealt with but player's credits spent on those ships should be returned to them in turn for removal of said ships.
That being said, if by chance a serco wants to tank their standing for whatever roleplay or gameplay reason he should be able to do so, however this should dishonorably discharge him from the military and make it impossible for him/her to return to their nation, My point for this is so people can't run back and forth.
As far as my opinion and suggestion goes, I honestly think utilizing the military enlistment mission is the best way to handle most of the faction issues. It doesn't reward people until they commit to their nation. And neutrals that are uit won't be able to purchase the specialized ships either, the current way faction is setup (when working properly) would work for true neutrals.
I don't know where i sit in terms of uit joining the military of itani or serco.
Discuss
I know the exclusiveness needs to be more exclusive, but yeah. Even people being respect/respect is silly in my opinion. And that is without mentioning the people who "cheated" and kept both statuses.
You know who you are you evil bastids, and you need to be hit with the tumblemonster stick.
You know who you are you evil bastids, and you need to be hit with the tumblemonster stick.
I agree, but most people find my stances extreme.
carebearz
carebearz
+1 to all of the above.
+10
Lots of ideas flowing...
+1 to make enemies more exclusive. Now it is Serco+Itani<=1200. Should be reduced to S+I=400, then reach Serco+itani=0. And no bottom, Serco PoS means Itani KoS.
+2 to militarization consequences and benefits. Enemy's soldiers are the enemy soldiers.
+3 to specialized ships limited to military personnel. As a good start, leave basic versions as now, but top versions only usable by military people. so I still can fly both a Prom and a Valk, but not a SCP and a X1. or mk.3 of both. Add SVG and IBG also as military ships.
To reinforce that, make enemy's military ships banned inside nation space. So, entering Serco space in a X-1 results in temp KoS, until leaving toasterland or get toasted.
4= About stockpiled ships, I prefer we let players keep them, with above new limitation. No Proms/SVG in smurfland, no Valks/IBGs on the other side of Deneb. (Except mk.1 models during transition stage).
5>> Those announcements should be expressed IN-GAME, RP-wise. Like adding the news of escalation on Itani-Serco and Axia-Valent conflilcts leading to new standing requirements, so you have to choose. If above "military ships" get implemented, in-game news should say that Serco banned X-'1s from their space, as response Itani banned SCPs...
6+ Implement UIT--Corvus exclusivity, but with more slack than Itani/Serco. U+C<=800.
7+ Preferably as factions axes, so "mapping" the faction space as:
..............UIT..............
..Va.....Bi...|...Or....Ax..
Serco....--TPG=-....Itani
..Ae....Xx....|....In...Tu..
.............Corvus............
(swapped Orion/Biocom) (Edit: swap XX,In;Ax,Va per vIsitor)
Just as general orientation, with slack to a lot of dynamic escalations and truce beween opposing factions, as Orion vs Tunguska, Biocom/Aeolus, Axia+Aelus vs Valent+Tunguska... Sometimes the Rivals become Enemies for a week or more, then truce is established after some (combat) event.
As a generic rule for standing, we can have "Friendlies", "Rivals" and "Enemies" as
Rival + Rival <=1200
Enemy+Enemy=400 (or 0)
+1 to make enemies more exclusive. Now it is Serco+Itani<=1200. Should be reduced to S+I=400, then reach Serco+itani=0. And no bottom, Serco PoS means Itani KoS.
+2 to militarization consequences and benefits. Enemy's soldiers are the enemy soldiers.
+3 to specialized ships limited to military personnel. As a good start, leave basic versions as now, but top versions only usable by military people. so I still can fly both a Prom and a Valk, but not a SCP and a X1. or mk.3 of both. Add SVG and IBG also as military ships.
To reinforce that, make enemy's military ships banned inside nation space. So, entering Serco space in a X-1 results in temp KoS, until leaving toasterland or get toasted.
4= About stockpiled ships, I prefer we let players keep them, with above new limitation. No Proms/SVG in smurfland, no Valks/IBGs on the other side of Deneb. (Except mk.1 models during transition stage).
5>> Those announcements should be expressed IN-GAME, RP-wise. Like adding the news of escalation on Itani-Serco and Axia-Valent conflilcts leading to new standing requirements, so you have to choose. If above "military ships" get implemented, in-game news should say that Serco banned X-'1s from their space, as response Itani banned SCPs...
6+ Implement UIT--Corvus exclusivity, but with more slack than Itani/Serco. U+C<=800.
7+ Preferably as factions axes, so "mapping" the faction space as:
..............UIT..............
..Va.....Bi...|...Or....Ax..
Serco....--TPG=-....Itani
..Ae....Xx....|....In...Tu..
.............Corvus............
(swapped Orion/Biocom) (Edit: swap XX,In;Ax,Va per vIsitor)
Just as general orientation, with slack to a lot of dynamic escalations and truce beween opposing factions, as Orion vs Tunguska, Biocom/Aeolus, Axia+Aelus vs Valent+Tunguska... Sometimes the Rivals become Enemies for a week or more, then truce is established after some (combat) event.
As a generic rule for standing, we can have "Friendlies", "Rivals" and "Enemies" as
Rival + Rival <=1200
Enemy+Enemy=400 (or 0)
Having overlooked this new thread I just posted in the older one on this topic:
Multifactional guilds (Edit: and UIC guilds) should not be nerfed.
You may reply here of course.
Multifactional guilds (Edit: and UIC guilds) should not be nerfed.
You may reply here of course.
No one is talking about nerfing guilds, your inability to not differentiate between "nerfing guilds" and "enemies not being able to go where ever the hell they please" is getting old. It is not actually possible to "nerf guilds".
Have you noticed that anyone with any sense of objectivity is all for the faction redux going further?
Tell ya what though, if you can provide just one valid reason to let traitors and enemies fly through my nation... I will change my stance.
Your move, you may proceed to fail.
Have you noticed that anyone with any sense of objectivity is all for the faction redux going further?
Tell ya what though, if you can provide just one valid reason to let traitors and enemies fly through my nation... I will change my stance.
Your move, you may proceed to fail.
If members of multifactional guilds that dont take part in faction battles still can't avoid "enemy"-status with one of the opposing factions (get their standing with one faction reduced to a certain point) it will close space for (usual operations of) these guilds. This nerfing you may applaude, but in any case it is nerfing. If the only way to avoid the closure is to avoid high end equipment of any of the opposing factions, that is also a nerfing of these guilds that you may applaude, but in any case it is nerfing.
As expected you regurgitated ill informed, wrong, carebear crap. You have failed to change my mind, you are a failure.
The devs may only nerf things they control. The devs do not control guilds. The devs cannot nerf guilds.
You want a consequence free game. Tough, you can't have it.
The devs may only nerf things they control. The devs do not control guilds. The devs cannot nerf guilds.
You want a consequence free game. Tough, you can't have it.
What exacrty is ill informed?
What exactly is wrong?
What exactly is carebear crap? (Don't you agree griefers and pirates praying at any given opportunity that guilds like VPR might be nerfed are carebears?)
Where exactly do I want a consequence free game?
"In video gaming a nerf is a change to a game that reduces the desirability or effectiveness of a particular game element. " (Wikipedia)
What exactly is wrong?
What exactly is carebear crap? (Don't you agree griefers and pirates praying at any given opportunity that guilds like VPR might be nerfed are carebears?)
Where exactly do I want a consequence free game?
"In video gaming a nerf is a change to a game that reduces the desirability or effectiveness of a particular game element. " (Wikipedia)
Alloh:
Why do you have Ineubis Serco-aligned and Xang Xi Itani-aligned on your chart? Ineubis sells purified xithricite to the Itani, and Xang Xi the same to the Serco. It doesn't make any sort of sense that they would stand in opposition to their biggest customers.
Also, you should swap Axia and Valent. Valent and BioCom are explicitly allied in-universe, and should logically not be in opposing quadrants. And BioCom has pretty strong Serco leanings, so swapping BioCom and Orion again wouldn't make any sense either.
Why do you have Ineubis Serco-aligned and Xang Xi Itani-aligned on your chart? Ineubis sells purified xithricite to the Itani, and Xang Xi the same to the Serco. It doesn't make any sort of sense that they would stand in opposition to their biggest customers.
Also, you should swap Axia and Valent. Valent and BioCom are explicitly allied in-universe, and should logically not be in opposing quadrants. And BioCom has pretty strong Serco leanings, so swapping BioCom and Orion again wouldn't make any sense either.
"What exacrty[sic] is ill informed?"
Your opinions about pretty much everything.
"What exactly is wrong?"
Your spelling and your opinions about pretty much everything.
"What exactly is carebear crap? (Don't you agree griefers and pirates praying at any given opportunity that guilds like VPR might be nerfed are carebears?)"
Care bear crap is idiots that think everyone should have access to everything, be able to get PoS with all factions and that nothing should have consequence. No.
"Where exactly do I want a consequence free game?"
See above.
"In video gaming a nerf is a change to a game that reduces the desirability or effectiveness of a particular game element. " (Wikipedia)
Guilds are not game elements, they are player elements. The only ones who can nerf guilds are the guilds.
Your opinions about pretty much everything.
"What exactly is wrong?"
Your spelling and your opinions about pretty much everything.
"What exactly is carebear crap? (Don't you agree griefers and pirates praying at any given opportunity that guilds like VPR might be nerfed are carebears?)"
Care bear crap is idiots that think everyone should have access to everything, be able to get PoS with all factions and that nothing should have consequence. No.
"Where exactly do I want a consequence free game?"
See above.
"In video gaming a nerf is a change to a game that reduces the desirability or effectiveness of a particular game element. " (Wikipedia)
Guilds are not game elements, they are player elements. The only ones who can nerf guilds are the guilds.
Let's try and keep this constructive. Saying "you are wrong in your opinions about everything" is not a valid argument. Neither is "only idiots think that <x>" (ad hominem). If you strongly disagree with someone at least be specific about what, and give your reasons for disagreeing. Even an ill-qualified individual can make a valid point.
Sorry Phaserlight... let me re-phrase.
"What exacrty[sic] is ill informed?"
Your opinions about pretty much everything involving the faction system, pirating and what you erroneously refer to as "griefing".
"What exactly is wrong?"
Your opinions about pretty much everything involving the faction system, pirating and what you erroneously refer to as "griefing".
Though in my defense, a lot of people (including myself) have explained specific points and valid reasons... PoL MkII just keeps posting the same ill informed crap.
"What exacrty[sic] is ill informed?"
Your opinions about pretty much everything involving the faction system, pirating and what you erroneously refer to as "griefing".
"What exactly is wrong?"
Your opinions about pretty much everything involving the faction system, pirating and what you erroneously refer to as "griefing".
Though in my defense, a lot of people (including myself) have explained specific points and valid reasons... PoL MkII just keeps posting the same ill informed crap.
@Bungarus
What exacrty is ill informed?
These changes to include faction exclusiveness are not new, and in fact, have been talked about, and planned, since factions were created. It has always been planned, it was always going to happen, and it _is_ going to be more widespread.
What exactly is wrong?
Well, being admired by one faction will not stop you going to the other factions space if needed. You will even be able to retain neutrality with both sides, even if a more extreme dislike/admire rule is brought into play. This will not change the way multinational guilds work, and sorry to burst a bubble, VPR are vigilante at best, not official police forces. There is no reason they should be able to whack anyone inside nation space. They are not above the law, even as the faction system stands.
What exactly is carebear crap? (Don't you agree griefers and pirates praying at any given opportunity that guilds like VPR might be nerfed are carebears?)
Care bear crap is like any crap, except care bears lay it.
Where exactly do I want a consequence free game?
Well it seems you only want bad things to happen to bad people. It's a little biased.
What exacrty is ill informed?
These changes to include faction exclusiveness are not new, and in fact, have been talked about, and planned, since factions were created. It has always been planned, it was always going to happen, and it _is_ going to be more widespread.
What exactly is wrong?
Well, being admired by one faction will not stop you going to the other factions space if needed. You will even be able to retain neutrality with both sides, even if a more extreme dislike/admire rule is brought into play. This will not change the way multinational guilds work, and sorry to burst a bubble, VPR are vigilante at best, not official police forces. There is no reason they should be able to whack anyone inside nation space. They are not above the law, even as the faction system stands.
What exactly is carebear crap? (Don't you agree griefers and pirates praying at any given opportunity that guilds like VPR might be nerfed are carebears?)
Care bear crap is like any crap, except care bears lay it.
Where exactly do I want a consequence free game?
Well it seems you only want bad things to happen to bad people. It's a little biased.
To ryan reign:
'"What exactly is carebear crap? (Don't you agree griefers and pirates praying at any given opportunity that guilds like VPR might be nerfed are carebears?)"
Care bear crap is idiots that think everyone should have access to everything'
Who exactly do you refer to as "idiot"?
Every player and guild should have potential (not easy) access to the most interesting / powerful equipment in a game without penalty of locking away a huge portion of the game universe.
'"What exacrty[sic] is ill informed?"
Your opinions about pretty much everything involving [list of topics]'
The only thing you were exact about was my typo.
"(including myself) have explained specific points"
Where exactly?
To yodaofborg:
"These changes to include faction exclusiveness are not new"
From the News section:
"Apr 20 Vendetta Online 1.8.214-216 VO 1.8.214-216 has included: (...)
- Serco/Itani and Valent/Axia factions are now mutually exclusive above Neutral. All players with characters that violate this are given the option to select on which factions they want keep their standings."
If you mean the discussion about it is not new, what's the point? Incarnate explicitly wished for a new discussion. Also since I joined the game rather recently I think you are able to grasp I could not take part in earlier discussions.
"Well, being admired by one faction will not stop you going to the other factions space if needed."
As I said elsewhere:
"I don't know yet about the efficiency of the national defenses but I guess they are obstructive enough to hamper the ability to accomplish other goals than fighting the defenses for one's own survival. (Should the defenses be weak enough to fail as a considerable obstruction I guess this would be another problem worth discussing.)"
To this:
"You will even be able to retain neutrality with both sides, even if a more extreme dislike/admire rule is brought into play."
I am strictly against forcing multifactional guilds to chose between being locked from either a huge portion of the game universe (all controlled and monitored sectors of Serco and Itani space) or locked from all of the most powerful equipment (especially ships) in the game. That would be draconic beyond hampering and nerfing, that would be a disaster.
"Well it seems you only want bad things to happen to bad people."
No, I don't want a major nerf against of all the rather constructive guilds. Plus it would even apply to a proper pirate guild (not griefer guild) that choses to be multifactional.
'"What exactly is carebear crap? (Don't you agree griefers and pirates praying at any given opportunity that guilds like VPR might be nerfed are carebears?)"
Care bear crap is idiots that think everyone should have access to everything'
Who exactly do you refer to as "idiot"?
Every player and guild should have potential (not easy) access to the most interesting / powerful equipment in a game without penalty of locking away a huge portion of the game universe.
'"What exacrty[sic] is ill informed?"
Your opinions about pretty much everything involving [list of topics]'
The only thing you were exact about was my typo.
"(including myself) have explained specific points"
Where exactly?
To yodaofborg:
"These changes to include faction exclusiveness are not new"
From the News section:
"Apr 20 Vendetta Online 1.8.214-216 VO 1.8.214-216 has included: (...)
- Serco/Itani and Valent/Axia factions are now mutually exclusive above Neutral. All players with characters that violate this are given the option to select on which factions they want keep their standings."
If you mean the discussion about it is not new, what's the point? Incarnate explicitly wished for a new discussion. Also since I joined the game rather recently I think you are able to grasp I could not take part in earlier discussions.
"Well, being admired by one faction will not stop you going to the other factions space if needed."
As I said elsewhere:
"I don't know yet about the efficiency of the national defenses but I guess they are obstructive enough to hamper the ability to accomplish other goals than fighting the defenses for one's own survival. (Should the defenses be weak enough to fail as a considerable obstruction I guess this would be another problem worth discussing.)"
To this:
"You will even be able to retain neutrality with both sides, even if a more extreme dislike/admire rule is brought into play."
I am strictly against forcing multifactional guilds to chose between being locked from either a huge portion of the game universe (all controlled and monitored sectors of Serco and Itani space) or locked from all of the most powerful equipment (especially ships) in the game. That would be draconic beyond hampering and nerfing, that would be a disaster.
"Well it seems you only want bad things to happen to bad people."
No, I don't want a major nerf against of all the rather constructive guilds. Plus it would even apply to a proper pirate guild (not griefer guild) that choses to be multifactional.
Okay I stopped reading when it started becoming less about faction redux and more about "nerfing guilds" (however the hell that is supposed to work).
If you're in a guild that is neutral and you are not a UIT, yeah, expect to have nationalists pick on you, thats just how it works and the fact that it's not working like that at the moment with say TGFT is BROKEN.
You can go and make an alt if you don't like it, it's not like you have something like a trident that can't be transferred to a UIT character.
Mecha's ideas would only be considered extreme to those who still believe this is hello kitty island. You are not meant to be able to trade in greyspace without escorts. The fact that you can just pay a FAMY and be safe is actually pretty ridiculously removed from what I understood to be the original idea of greyspace. It's the same with the faction standings and Nationalism. The idea that you can join a guild as an itani and that makes you no longer a target to a serco nationalist guild is UTTERLY RIDICULOUS.
Obviously the faction system needs to be far more discriminatory (1+) and the military needs to be properly fixed to actually matter (100+)
If you're in a guild that is neutral and you are not a UIT, yeah, expect to have nationalists pick on you, thats just how it works and the fact that it's not working like that at the moment with say TGFT is BROKEN.
You can go and make an alt if you don't like it, it's not like you have something like a trident that can't be transferred to a UIT character.
Mecha's ideas would only be considered extreme to those who still believe this is hello kitty island. You are not meant to be able to trade in greyspace without escorts. The fact that you can just pay a FAMY and be safe is actually pretty ridiculously removed from what I understood to be the original idea of greyspace. It's the same with the faction standings and Nationalism. The idea that you can join a guild as an itani and that makes you no longer a target to a serco nationalist guild is UTTERLY RIDICULOUS.
Obviously the faction system needs to be far more discriminatory (1+) and the military needs to be properly fixed to actually matter (100+)
If an ultranationalist decides to attack any member of the opposing nation no matter of guild affiliation, that's ok, his choice. But it should not be coded into the game to rediculously easy trigger the automatic defenses.
I have the impression a vast majority of Itani and Serco players are far from being ultranationalists to the extent of attacking guilds like ORE, EMS, VPR, TGFT, or TRI for no other reason.
I have the impression a vast majority of Itani and Serco players are far from being ultranationalists to the extent of attacking guilds like ORE, EMS, VPR, TGFT, or TRI for no other reason.
I'm not going to call you an idiot but if you are Serco you are Serco and if you are Itani you are Itani. Guilds are player created and should not be taken Into consideration when designing game based faction/nation rules
if you want to be pals with everyone it should be able to happen on the only actually neutral nation built into the game.
if you want to be pals with everyone it should be able to happen on the only actually neutral nation built into the game.