Forums » Suggestions
Savet, but that shouldn't be easy to do or people will just flip flop there like we do with factions. I suggest simply editing the text of the military enlistment mission and explain very clearly it's consequences. If they choose not to read (some of them are like that) not our problem quite frankly.
[edit] for some reason i read that as they could re enlist too. But an option to leave honorably might be okay but that isn't really typical of military service.
[edit] for some reason i read that as they could re enlist too. But an option to leave honorably might be okay but that isn't really typical of military service.
Just throw a timer on it. If they leave a military, they can't join any military for two months or whatever. If they leave any military a second time within a year of the last, make the delay be six months. There should also be some sort of redemption mission sequence to rejoin a military that you have left, if rejoining is even possible.
The Issue I see with that is ship stocking and then subverting the point of the faction rewards and limitations. You usually can't just come and go in a military, it's a commitment and comes with rewards and consequences that you're stuck with for quite a while. I think military enlistment (if this gets implemented) should be explained in the tutorials and then explained in detail in the actual military enlistment mission and the consequences of enlisting or not. We don't need more pandering around the issue, we need something that is going to solve the problems we have and make being serco or itani mean something.
"I think the concept of tying military service to the availability of some higher-end, single-player factional content (Prometheus, Valk, etc) is interesting."
Forcing neutral UIT players to actively take part in the faction conflict to obtain a high-end fighter? Utterly awful. Unless UIT gets a new, own, competitive high-end fighter.
Military enlistment to one of the opposing factions would be a good idea as a cause for lowering the faction standing with the other opposing faction so that the auto-defense is triggered. But unless there is an own competitive UIT high-end fighter, just having high-enough standing with one of the opposing faction to obtain a high-end fighter as a cause for triggering the auto-defense is unaccaptable for me as a UIT player. Also because it will close down half the game universe for UIT or multifactional guilds.
"Also, let's take a look at history. WWI and WWII, to be specific. Lots of innocent people who did not do anything at all to help the other side, but in fact helped our side, were treated horribly merely because they were of Japanese or German descent."
As you said such idiocy is horrible.
On Mother's Day on channel 100: "Serco and Itani moms should not be celebrated: endless war without any reason = epic education fail", laughter all around. That war is futile, proven already by it's duration (9 years RL time, 1000 years in the backstory).
Since you are so keen on real life comparisons: Just imagine for a second a war that lasts for thousand years, that amount of time alone makes it meaningless since only an antiquary might have a faint chance to dig out the "reason" for this war. I understand it as a sarcastic exaggeration of ultranationalism and militarism, something to follow for the type of player who needs to be taken by the hand because he is unable to cope with the sanbox options of the game for a deeper sef-conceived gameplay and roleplay.
Excursus: I suggest a new chat channel soley devoted to the Serco-Itani conflict, saving channel 100 from at least some of the "foul smurf" - "Serco pig" monotony.
You want to tell me it would be unacceptably immersion breaking for you if an Itani citizen sane enough to show Itani government the middle finger when asked to participate in a war this futile enters Serco space for some racing or griefer killing or trading or whatever without getting auto-attacked? Sure.
If your hearts really break over it just roleplay the ultranationalist out and attack him yourself for heaven's sake.
<forum>
"Uuuuh, but he flies an oh so evil top gear Valkyrie!" Carebears. This is not Hello Kitty Online. Grow a pair. Etc. blah blah.
And crying over it since nine bloody years? - Epic whining. You don't like this game? Go play EVE. Etc.
And what's the point anyway if the auto-defense is as useless as you claim? Why does it break your little carebear hearts when not triggered then?
</forum>
I have two ideas for a compromise:
First alternative:
1) Ok, let's have multifactional guilds nerfed (Itani citizen having a high standing with his home nation triggers the defenses in Serco space and vice versa). But it is NOT triggered against UIT citizens who don't take part in faction war events.
2) PLUS it is made utterly clear on the nation selection screen that UIT and only UIT is the faction of choice if you are the sandbox type of player.
3) After public anouncememnt of the changings current Itani and Serco members of multifactional guilds are given a little time to level a UIT alt before nerfing, allowing multifactional guilds to transform into UIT only guilds.
Second alternative:
1) UIT are given a competitive high-end fighter. (No need for high standings with Serco or Itani then.)
2) As above.
3) As above.
Forcing neutral UIT players to actively take part in the faction conflict to obtain a high-end fighter? Utterly awful. Unless UIT gets a new, own, competitive high-end fighter.
Military enlistment to one of the opposing factions would be a good idea as a cause for lowering the faction standing with the other opposing faction so that the auto-defense is triggered. But unless there is an own competitive UIT high-end fighter, just having high-enough standing with one of the opposing faction to obtain a high-end fighter as a cause for triggering the auto-defense is unaccaptable for me as a UIT player. Also because it will close down half the game universe for UIT or multifactional guilds.
"Also, let's take a look at history. WWI and WWII, to be specific. Lots of innocent people who did not do anything at all to help the other side, but in fact helped our side, were treated horribly merely because they were of Japanese or German descent."
As you said such idiocy is horrible.
On Mother's Day on channel 100: "Serco and Itani moms should not be celebrated: endless war without any reason = epic education fail", laughter all around. That war is futile, proven already by it's duration (9 years RL time, 1000 years in the backstory).
Since you are so keen on real life comparisons: Just imagine for a second a war that lasts for thousand years, that amount of time alone makes it meaningless since only an antiquary might have a faint chance to dig out the "reason" for this war. I understand it as a sarcastic exaggeration of ultranationalism and militarism, something to follow for the type of player who needs to be taken by the hand because he is unable to cope with the sanbox options of the game for a deeper sef-conceived gameplay and roleplay.
Excursus: I suggest a new chat channel soley devoted to the Serco-Itani conflict, saving channel 100 from at least some of the "foul smurf" - "Serco pig" monotony.
You want to tell me it would be unacceptably immersion breaking for you if an Itani citizen sane enough to show Itani government the middle finger when asked to participate in a war this futile enters Serco space for some racing or griefer killing or trading or whatever without getting auto-attacked? Sure.
If your hearts really break over it just roleplay the ultranationalist out and attack him yourself for heaven's sake.
<forum>
"Uuuuh, but he flies an oh so evil top gear Valkyrie!" Carebears. This is not Hello Kitty Online. Grow a pair. Etc. blah blah.
And crying over it since nine bloody years? - Epic whining. You don't like this game? Go play EVE. Etc.
And what's the point anyway if the auto-defense is as useless as you claim? Why does it break your little carebear hearts when not triggered then?
</forum>
I have two ideas for a compromise:
First alternative:
1) Ok, let's have multifactional guilds nerfed (Itani citizen having a high standing with his home nation triggers the defenses in Serco space and vice versa). But it is NOT triggered against UIT citizens who don't take part in faction war events.
2) PLUS it is made utterly clear on the nation selection screen that UIT and only UIT is the faction of choice if you are the sandbox type of player.
3) After public anouncememnt of the changings current Itani and Serco members of multifactional guilds are given a little time to level a UIT alt before nerfing, allowing multifactional guilds to transform into UIT only guilds.
Second alternative:
1) UIT are given a competitive high-end fighter. (No need for high standings with Serco or Itani then.)
2) As above.
3) As above.
The UIT have had a special high-end ship since the days of alpha: it is called the Marauder. It actually is a decent fighter when empty, but becomes sluggish very quickly when filled with cargo. While it doesn't quite match up to the Valkyrie or the Prometheus in a dogfight (given pilots of equal skill), it does fill a unique niche within the game that reflects the UIT's neutrality, versatility, and inclination to trade. Not that it wouldn't be nice to have more ship designs all around, but UIT specials do exist.
An Itani player may also have high standing with the Serco (and vice versa), however his or her faction with his or her home nation would drop accordingly. It seems as though the game's current system is actually less restrictive than the guidelines Bungarus proposes; the nation selection during character creation affects initial faction standings, however these can change over the course of a character's lifetime. In no way is he or she locked in to one role or the next.
The only restrictive aspect I have been able to see is that certain missions will not appear for one nation or the next, or will only appear for a player of a certain nation. This has been reflected in missions that are designed within the PCC; some require the player to be Itani, Serco, UIT, or not UIT. Although the majority of missions do not make use of this feature, that may change as mission storylines become more detailed and fill in the corners of VO's universe.
An Itani player may also have high standing with the Serco (and vice versa), however his or her faction with his or her home nation would drop accordingly. It seems as though the game's current system is actually less restrictive than the guidelines Bungarus proposes; the nation selection during character creation affects initial faction standings, however these can change over the course of a character's lifetime. In no way is he or she locked in to one role or the next.
The only restrictive aspect I have been able to see is that certain missions will not appear for one nation or the next, or will only appear for a player of a certain nation. This has been reflected in missions that are designed within the PCC; some require the player to be Itani, Serco, UIT, or not UIT. Although the majority of missions do not make use of this feature, that may change as mission storylines become more detailed and fill in the corners of VO's universe.
If we want to reserve high-end military ships to nationalists only, then why don't we just make those ships only available to purchase and fly if you're actively enlisted in the military. Once you're no longer enlisted, you cannot fly high-end military ships, even if you have a stockpile of them.
It doesn't make sense to magically not be able to fly a ship you already possess. It makes a lot more sense for the authorities to get mad at you when you fly a ship you own but do not posses proper authorization to operate. Though I suppose magically blocking it could work within that faction's space. So if you wanted to stockpile valks, you'd have to ferry them out of Itani space, and not take them back into Itani space once you lose access.
The idea (at least to me) isn't to totally prevent non-military personnel from using the ships, but rather to make them easier to get when you're in the military, and possibly have penalties for using them when you are not. E.g. only military use of the X-1 is tolerated within Itani borders, so Itanis who want them for non-military purposes would need to obtain them through the black market, and only use them outside of Itani space on pain of being shot down. People without Itani standing at all would need to use the black market for any valk, not just the X-1.
The idea (at least to me) isn't to totally prevent non-military personnel from using the ships, but rather to make them easier to get when you're in the military, and possibly have penalties for using them when you are not. E.g. only military use of the X-1 is tolerated within Itani borders, so Itanis who want them for non-military purposes would need to obtain them through the black market, and only use them outside of Itani space on pain of being shot down. People without Itani standing at all would need to use the black market for any valk, not just the X-1.
/ignore "Bungarus"
The issue I see, rin, is that system will get abused and we'll end up back where we are now. And its not so much magical that they're ships get disabled, remote override.
People who aren't military shouldn't get to fly military ships, there are a myriad of good ships from the variety of subfactions, You just can't have our's for no reason.
The issue I see, rin, is that system will get abused and we'll end up back where we are now. And its not so much magical that they're ships get disabled, remote override.
People who aren't military shouldn't get to fly military ships, there are a myriad of good ships from the variety of subfactions, You just can't have our's for no reason.
Oh yeah, I guess that makes sense. Like how Apple totally prevents anybody from doing unauthorized stuff with an iPhone.
Oh, wait :P
Oh, wait :P
Phaserlight, I said UIT has no "competitive high-end fighter".
You said the Marauder "doesn't quite match up to the Valkyrie or the Prometheus in a dogfight".
This is a paraphrase. :-)
Should the drastic changes everyone here is crying for take place, UIT would be the only faction avalable for players who want to stay out of the faction war, and these are by no means only traders.
Since UIT are "clinging to life in deep space" and "widely revered as innovators, as life without a homeworld has called for truly unique advances ... in ship construction technology", the lack of a competitive high-end fighter is a contradiction to the backstory as well.
Unless of course with regard to the Maurauder "truly unique advances in ship construction technology" should mean putting all the cargo into the cockpit which than makes about half the ship.
"It seems as though the game's current system is actually less restrictive than the guidelines Bungarus proposes"
But the two alternatives I propose are less restrictive than the changes everyone else here is proposing, don't you agree?
You said the Marauder "doesn't quite match up to the Valkyrie or the Prometheus in a dogfight".
This is a paraphrase. :-)
Should the drastic changes everyone here is crying for take place, UIT would be the only faction avalable for players who want to stay out of the faction war, and these are by no means only traders.
Since UIT are "clinging to life in deep space" and "widely revered as innovators, as life without a homeworld has called for truly unique advances ... in ship construction technology", the lack of a competitive high-end fighter is a contradiction to the backstory as well.
Unless of course with regard to the Maurauder "truly unique advances in ship construction technology" should mean putting all the cargo into the cockpit which than makes about half the ship.
"It seems as though the game's current system is actually less restrictive than the guidelines Bungarus proposes"
But the two alternatives I propose are less restrictive than the changes everyone else here is proposing, don't you agree?
Bung says...
"the lack of a competitive high-end fighter is a contradiction to the backstory as well./Give UIT a competitive high-end fighter. (No need for high standings with Serco or Itani then.)"
Here's a break down of special ships you get per nation...
SERCO: Prometheus - SVG
ITANI: Valkyrie - IBG
UIT: Marauder - Raptor - BioCom Vulture - Atlas X - Wraith - Rev C - EC-101 Type B - EC-101 MKII - Warthog Territorial Defender - Hornet Convoy Guardian Elite
GRAY: Greyhound - Tung Centaur Agresso - Mercenary Marauder - CorVult
RR Says...
Thats thirteen ships in UIT and Gray Vs. four... quit whining and posting the same vomit every time you post.
Bung says...
"Should the drastic changes everyone here is crying for take place..."
Hmmm... lets look at that, shall we? On the one hand there is you and your idea.
On the other hand, there is EVERYONE ELSE... wonder if that is indicative of anything?
"the lack of a competitive high-end fighter is a contradiction to the backstory as well./Give UIT a competitive high-end fighter. (No need for high standings with Serco or Itani then.)"
Here's a break down of special ships you get per nation...
SERCO: Prometheus - SVG
ITANI: Valkyrie - IBG
UIT: Marauder - Raptor - BioCom Vulture - Atlas X - Wraith - Rev C - EC-101 Type B - EC-101 MKII - Warthog Territorial Defender - Hornet Convoy Guardian Elite
GRAY: Greyhound - Tung Centaur Agresso - Mercenary Marauder - CorVult
RR Says...
Thats thirteen ships in UIT and Gray Vs. four... quit whining and posting the same vomit every time you post.
Bung says...
"Should the drastic changes everyone here is crying for take place..."
Hmmm... lets look at that, shall we? On the one hand there is you and your idea.
On the other hand, there is EVERYONE ELSE... wonder if that is indicative of anything?
I don't see how apple and the iphone is the equivalent of military space death machines. I just don't think people need to have every ship in the game because they feel like it.
Well, there's a difference between "because they feel like it" and "because they want one to so badly they are willing to break laws and risk punishment to do so".
Basically, I like imposing laws, but not making them magic, so that people can break the laws and deal with the consequences.
Basically, I like imposing laws, but not making them magic, so that people can break the laws and deal with the consequences.
"Thats thirteen ships in UIT and Gray"
We were talking of the two existing high-end fighters and the non-existence of a UIT high-end fighter in a game that is mainly about PvP.
"quit whining and posting the same vomit every time you post."
What exactly do you mean by "same vomit", since I don't seem to have touched the comparison of the faction's three high-end ships before?
"On the one hand there is you and your idea. On the other hand, there is EVERYONE ELSE... wonder if that is indicative of anything?"
Yes, of players who might share my view and read the forum rather prefering to not experience the same monstrous insulting, humiliation and gutter language.
Actually I heard trolling excesses are not uncommon here, causing many players who are disgusted by it to avoid the forum. Not that I am less disgusted, but I thought it was important - and, which may have been newbish naivete, also possible - to have free speech and a representation of different opinions in a game forum that seems to be seen as the main source of player input by the devs.
'/ignore "Bungarus"'
That command seems to be disfunctional. Try "/trollstalk" next time, should work flawlessly.
We were talking of the two existing high-end fighters and the non-existence of a UIT high-end fighter in a game that is mainly about PvP.
"quit whining and posting the same vomit every time you post."
What exactly do you mean by "same vomit", since I don't seem to have touched the comparison of the faction's three high-end ships before?
"On the one hand there is you and your idea. On the other hand, there is EVERYONE ELSE... wonder if that is indicative of anything?"
Yes, of players who might share my view and read the forum rather prefering to not experience the same monstrous insulting, humiliation and gutter language.
Actually I heard trolling excesses are not uncommon here, causing many players who are disgusted by it to avoid the forum. Not that I am less disgusted, but I thought it was important - and, which may have been newbish naivete, also possible - to have free speech and a representation of different opinions in a game forum that seems to be seen as the main source of player input by the devs.
'/ignore "Bungarus"'
That command seems to be disfunctional. Try "/trollstalk" next time, should work flawlessly.
So... you missed the ten high end UIT/Grayfighters listed then? Like a lot of people have told you, learn the game so you know what you're talking about.
We were talking of the two existing high-end fighters and the non-existence of a UIT high-end fighter in a game that is mainly about PvP.
What is the Warthog Territorial Defender then? A banana split?
What is the Warthog Territorial Defender then? A banana split?
Ok, so, trying to get a common ground on exclusive stockpiled ships:
War escalate, again. Established rules changes dinamically as response. The major nations change their requirements:
* Military ships: SVG, SCP, X1, IBG, top Valks and Proms, UTD, Maud.X
(Non-military: Prom1, Prom2, Valk1, Valk Rune, other mauds than X)
Those become restricted to sell only for active military personnel. As new usage restriction, Proms get banned from Itaniland, and Valks from Sercospace. AND military versions usage gets limited inside that nation space. So, a UIT pilot not in military cannot fly a X1 in Serco, due general ban on Valks, and neither in Itani, since it is a military restricted ship. No restrictions in grayspace.
But should S/I NPCs will attack anyone flying an "enemy" military ship? I vote yes, after issuing a warning.
What about Corvus ships? Remain without restrictions until 4th faction is created?
> Aboute remote 'killswitch': If such thing existed, all enemy's effort should be to break that, so they can remotely disable all enemy ships and score a safe, easy win! Just like the Cylons did with Colonies' ships... so only those usage rules for military ships should be enforced...
War escalate, again. Established rules changes dinamically as response. The major nations change their requirements:
* Military ships: SVG, SCP, X1, IBG, top Valks and Proms, UTD, Maud.X
(Non-military: Prom1, Prom2, Valk1, Valk Rune, other mauds than X)
Those become restricted to sell only for active military personnel. As new usage restriction, Proms get banned from Itaniland, and Valks from Sercospace. AND military versions usage gets limited inside that nation space. So, a UIT pilot not in military cannot fly a X1 in Serco, due general ban on Valks, and neither in Itani, since it is a military restricted ship. No restrictions in grayspace.
But should S/I NPCs will attack anyone flying an "enemy" military ship? I vote yes, after issuing a warning.
What about Corvus ships? Remain without restrictions until 4th faction is created?
> Aboute remote 'killswitch': If such thing existed, all enemy's effort should be to break that, so they can remotely disable all enemy ships and score a safe, easy win! Just like the Cylons did with Colonies' ships... so only those usage rules for military ships should be enforced...
We were talking of the two existing high-end fighters and the non-existence of a UIT high-end fighter in a game that is mainly about PvP.
ARF, I think it's clear that Bung**** wouldn't know a useful combat ship if one boosted over and stuck a megaposi blaster up his arse.
ARF, I think it's clear that Bung**** wouldn't know a useful combat ship if one boosted over and stuck a megaposi blaster up his arse.
IMO, the best combat ship the UIT have is the Rev-C. Even if it isn't quite as awesome as a Prom or a Valk, it is certainly good enough to take one on. Remember, this game is all about player skill. With equal pilots in a Rev-C and a Valk, the Valk would usually win, but it only takes a slightly more skilled Rev-C pilot to turn things around. And as a bonus, Orion are a minor faction and have a station in Greyspace, so even if you became hated by the UIT themselves, you could still deal with Orion.
I'm not going to count the Corvus ships, since I'm one of the people who'd like to see Corvus become mutually exclusive with the UIT. Otherwise I'd point out that the Corvus Vulturius is on the same level as Valks and Proms, and that the Superlight is actually superior.
I'm not going to count the Corvus ships, since I'm one of the people who'd like to see Corvus become mutually exclusive with the UIT. Otherwise I'd point out that the Corvus Vulturius is on the same level as Valks and Proms, and that the Superlight is actually superior.
I don't think the vulturius is on the same level as a valk or a prom, but its definitely only slightly below and a fantastic ship primarily due to its phenomenal ability to control distance which is key to dealing with flares and helps a lot against energy.