How about that Itani can get no higher than Neut with Serco and the same with Serco and Itani?
UIT can get to admire but no higher, That way only Itani can get Vaulks and only serco can get Proms.
that way everyone can still trade/mine, if UIT wants valks or Proms they have to join the military.

[DELETED]

That would be ok... I guess. However, I do think it should be infinitely more difficult to get standing with your nations enemy.

"What is the Warthog Territorial Defender then?"

Tell me, something that is on a par with a Prom or a Valk?

"With equal pilots in a Rev-C and a Valk, the Valk would usually win"

Aha.

"the Corvus Vulturius is on the same level as Valks and Proms"

With two small weapons ports and armor 8900, seriously?

"I don't think the vulturius is on the same level as a valk or a prom"

Also controversial.

"the Superlight is actually superior."

With one small weapons port and armor 6500?

Since the balance between the Valk and the Prom is also debated on for years it seams, I suggest a third alternative that would also end all problems:

Political entities (nations) and manufacturing companies get seperated. After the financial drain of 1000 years of war Itani and Serco are forced to license their ships to commercial companies, who only agree to the deal for the right to offer everything in every faction's space. Itani and Serco sign it since it allows them to go on with the war and it is no advantage or disadvantage for either side.

It would level the playing field, the war battles will then be decided soley by superior skills and tactics, every side can use groups of Valks and Proms and whatever. I think that would be quite interesting.

The Valk would no longer be an "Itani ship" and the Prom would no longer be a "Serco ship", thus just seeing either of them in the hands of a pilot who does not belong to the own faction would no longer be a plausible reason for an ultranationalist to develop a depression.

With one small weapons port and armor 6500? (superlight)

This is why theorycrafting and only looking at a few stats on a website without playing is bad. The Centurion Superlight is the best ship in the game (combined with the Corvus Widowmaker)... provided you are skilled enough to dodge all rockets that come your way. Much of Vendetta is about player skill rather than pure ship and equipment numbers.

"[Theorycrafting] can create inflated views of importance on particular builds or practices, without the proper fundamental backing for which to properly interpret the results."

You clearly have the opinion that nationality should have no affect on the actual gameplay you experience, but as I have said several times now, why should there be different nations to choose at all if you want to eliminate any meaningful distinction between them? The developers created three distinct choices for a reason; eliminating what little meaning there is currently to the choice is no good solution. Starcraft is often considered a perfect multiplayer game in terms of balance, and it has three very distinct race choices, each with unique pros and cons. Changing gameplay to be homogenous is no good.

You might have seen that I used some quotation marks. To be more precise: Can the Centurion Superlight dodge everything or just missiles? How long does it take to kill a Prom in it with one small weapons port in between evasion maneuvres, more or less than an hour?

Avalability of the Corvus Widowmaker seems restricted. Also funny it was suggested to have mutual faction exclusivity between UIT and Corvus.

"You clearly have the opinion that nationality should have no affect on the actual gameplay you experience"

That would indeed be the optimum. But at least it should not hamper to the extent of becoming uncompetitive if one choses to stay out of faction war.

"The developers created three distinct choices for a reason"

UIT being the distinct choice for players who prefer a sandbox game for a self conceived gameplay and roleplay over a linear game that restricts their freedom. I don't see why the two types of players should no longer coexist in the game, which works in VO for nine years. Seems to be a rare achievement in an MMOG which, as I said before, should not be jeopardized.

"Starcraft is often considered a perfect multiplayer game in terms of balance, and it has three very distinct race choices"

It is far more difficult to balance a game with factions offering specific equipment. One of the oldest MMOGs, Mankind, is a true sandbox with a level playing field which never was a problem, actually I think it is the reason for it's rich variety of guilds, it's player-driven history and it's longevity despite being that old with very dated graphics.

Dont like it? Then dont play it sweetheart, this is a free world : ]

I like it. The way it is. You don't like it the way it is.

" 'the Superlight is actually superior.' With one small weapons port and armor 6500?"

Yes.

"Can the Centurion Superlight dodge everything or just missiles?"

Yes. In point of fact, any ship in the game all the way down to the EC series can dodge everything. In fact I have seen superligts, Mauds, Tuars, IBGs, Vults and even Rags and EC series ships destroy Proms and Valks.

"How long does it take to kill a Prom in it with one small weapons port in between evasion maneuvres, more or less than an hour?""

Ok, I'm going to try REALLY damned hard to not be offensive here... because this is a serious question. Are you high? Or have you never actually played VO?
In a bomber Rag, it takes me about 10 to 15 minutes to solo kill a a Trident. Less if it's a player owned Trident. The average fight in VO lasts seconds. A mid length fight lasts about 1 minute and a really really long fight can last anywhere from 3 to 5 minutes.
That question, it shows clearly (well, even more so than everything else you've posted) that you have absolutely no knowledge of what you are talking about. I have seen every ship in the game kill every ship in the game.

Victory is determined by several factors...

1. SKILL
2. TACTICS
3. LUCK

"more or less than an hour" was a bit sarcastic. But surely it takes longer in a Centurion than in a Valkyrie?

You don't have to repeat every time that I am new to the game, everybody knows that since I myself said it repeatedly.

I stopped playing at combat license 2 and a half because I won't invest more time and effort in the game before I know if the faction changes will be implemented in a way that causes multifactional and UIT guilds not taking part in the faction war getting severley hampered.

"I stopped playing at combat license 2 and a half"

So... by your own admission, you have no idea what you are talking about.

I have less empirical knowledge of the game but a working brain and the basics of logic at hand to imagine that a guild that must chose between avoiding the high-end equipment of two factions or avoiding half the game universe is severely hampered.

If there really are ships in the game available to UIT that are on a par with a Valk or a Prom it might be different, but I am not yet convinced of that. As I said, there seems to be an ongoing debate over the question if Itani is superior to Serco in the faction war because of the Valk - with Serco having the Prom. That debate would make no sense if there were even other ships than the Prom that are on a par with the Valk.

Let's always assume pilots of equal skill.

The thing you are not taking into consideration, Bung, is nimbleness. If you are quick enough to be untouchable, you do not need armor. As for firepower, it only matters when you can hit the target. Being nimble means it is easier to get into a position that increases your odds of hitting. Get above or below a Valk or Vulture, for example, and you have easy shots - and they can't shoot back.

Even if you only have one blaster, as is the case with the superlight, that is still enough to kill a Prom within several seconds of continuous fire. Most high-end weapons do 3-4k dps, and even the prom only has 21k armor points. Of course, normally the prom will be dodging so you won't maintain a continuous stream of damage. But it doesn't take long to kill one if you can get behind it and outmaneuver it so that it can't turn to face you.

And yes, I did say that equal pilots in a Rev-C and a Valk would result in the Valk winning. Equal pilots, however, are extremely rare. Even if the Rev-C isn't equal to the Valk, it is in the same league. If a Rev-C bumps into a Valk, it's not going to be a situation where he has no chance of survival. In most cases, the better pilot will be the one who wins. Ship choice gives you an edge, but it's not typically the deciding factor.

Don't split hairs.

"I have less empirical knowledge of the game"
You mean nearly none.

"but a working brain"
I disagree.

"and the basics of logic at hand"
I disagree.

"to imagine that a guild that must chose between avoiding the high-end equipment of two factions or avoiding half the game universe is severely hampered."
Been proven false repeatedly, even by members of those guilds.

"If there really are ships in the game available to UIT that are on a par with a Valk or a Prom"
There are, but as you stopped playing at combat 2.5, you'll likely never know.

"it might be different,"
I would be willing to be everything is different than how you percieve it.

"but I am not yet convinced of that."
That's because you stopped at combat 2.5 and are unwilling to admit you are wrong in the face of overwhelming evidence.

"As I said, there seems to be an ongoing debate over the question if Itani is superior to Serco in the faction war because of the Valk - with Serco having the Prom."
This doesn't even merit a response.

"That debate would make no sense if there were even other ships than the Prom that are on a par with the Valk."
Right... except that there are, many in fact. Something that clearly escapes you as you stopped playing before you had access to any of them.

"Let's always assume pilots of equal skill."
Lets... and then lets have you go up against the Doc, Peytros, Clink, Shape, Mecha, Jasmine Attamos, Spence, PhaserLight, Nahin, Atice, Ecka, JE, Surb... or any of a dozen others.

Pizzasgood, interesting stuff, but people see it completely different in this thread and in this thread when it comes to the high-end ships of Itani and Serco, the Valk and the Prom. Being mainly concerned in respect to guilds this is especially worrying because lacking Valks seems to get worse in group combats. Should be even worse with lacking Valks and Proms.

As recently as a few days ago... I killed a Valk X-1 using a Centaur cargo ship. I have also killed X-1s in a Rag, Rev C, Prom, Greyhound, WTD, Biocom Vult, CorVult, SVG, IBG, CorMaud, Hog II, Atlas X and quite a few others.

Kinda puts a large hole in your theory.

bending any argument to yer view ye be! Amen to this! :p

And ye will play da game as the devs wants it to be, or ye 'll have to buy da company to impose yer views :p

ryan reign, single events or a single player's experiences do not put a hole in the picture gained from all other sources of information. You may be skilled above average, your opponents may have been (picked because of being) skilled below average, they might have been short on armor from previous encounters, it might have been lucky killshots in group combats.

Plus you are someone who is proud of being a liar.

Plus you were not disagreeing in this thread with statements like:

"the Itani have the best fighter ship, namely the Valkyrie series."

"I think the Valkryie is the strongest. It is a completely imbalanced ship."

"There needs to be a 3 port light fighter/interceptor available to the serco, and the UIT."

"It's a game imbalance, the game is centred around combat, and the valkryie fills the role that most pilots fly as combat pilots."

"Valkyries are somewhere overpowered"

Why did you not start flaming that? Ah, it wasn't me who said anything of it.

Actually, I pointed out that they are equal but for different tactics. As an aside, if you can't grasp the difference between lying and RP... you need to get a hold of a reputable dictionary and become better acquainted with the words you are misusing.

[EDIT: I will not be rewritten by others.]

Yeah, the Valk gives a good edge when it comes to group combat. My opinion on the matter is that there should be a better counter to hit and run tactics (e.g. a mine-like weapon that deploys a turbo nullifying field - as a mine-like weapon, it would be destructable, and it would also have a fixed lifetime of maybe 1 minute. But anyway, that's veering off topic).

That said, the difference is not insurmountable. The most important thing in group combat is teamwork, not ship choice. Is the valk balance issue worth making noise about, especially as factions become more exclusive? Yes. Is it sufficiently messed up to make the game undesirable for anybody who wishes to remain neutral? No.

Keep in mind, I am typically Tri-KOS, meaning I normally don't have access to any of the ships from the Serco, Itani, or UIT (other than TPG and Orion, who have stations in greyspace). So if I say lack of Valks and Proms isn't the end of the world, it isn't the end of the world.

A neutral guild that must chose between avoiding the high-end equipment of both Itani and Serco or avoiding half the game universe is severely hampered. The first choice would mean to lose access to both the Valk and the Prom. Imagine a war between two guilds where one has Valks or Proms as many as they like and the other has neither one Valk nor one Prom.