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ryan, please read the post I was responding to. His point was the RPL would allow players to know "what is going to come" because they know who is logged on. I responded within the context of his post. Given that context, my response makes sense. Please do not respond to my posts out of context.
And ryan, we've settled the whole "oh god, I'm gonna log out now cause he's on!" deal a long time ago. There's very little proof in either direction (I've seen players migrate due to players being online. The only time I've seen them log is when players were being incredibly annoying)... and claiming that your opinion is a fact just derails the thread. Your view on the subject has been noted.
Moreover, players having /msg irc active being bound to a hotkey is in NO WAY relevant to the RPL discussion, since the only way that players would make it to the RPL is to speak on 100, at which point the players who you believe would log would see the chatter and log anyways. Given that we discussed this particular topic ad-infinitem on pages 1, 2 and 3 of this thread... can we move on now?
And ryan, we've settled the whole "oh god, I'm gonna log out now cause he's on!" deal a long time ago. There's very little proof in either direction (I've seen players migrate due to players being online. The only time I've seen them log is when players were being incredibly annoying)... and claiming that your opinion is a fact just derails the thread. Your view on the subject has been noted.
Moreover, players having /msg irc active being bound to a hotkey is in NO WAY relevant to the RPL discussion, since the only way that players would make it to the RPL is to speak on 100, at which point the players who you believe would log would see the chatter and log anyways. Given that we discussed this particular topic ad-infinitem on pages 1, 2 and 3 of this thread... can we move on now?
No, we can't because you are trying to make an end run around the APL being removed by suggesting a watered down version with an only slightly different function. Not to mention the simple fact that you've already stated that if the devs decide not to implement your hax, you're just going to script it yourself.
You are hiding your intentions behind this "what is best for the most players" garbage. At least if you had the honesty to admit you just wanted the APL back so desperately that you'd be willing to take a watered down version, I could at least respect the honesty.
Your only arguments for this are...
If you don't want your name on the list DONT TALK!
and of course...
It would only update every 30 to 60 minutes. (Which by the way makes it effectively the exact same thing as the APL given that most people are on for longer than 30 to 60 minutes. Hell, I've seen people on as much as 2 to 4 hours at a time and I know of at least two players who claim that they stay logged in constantly unless there is an update.)
I realize you claim that people do not play for longer than 30 to 60 minutes...
ME: The vast majority of VOs player base is in game for far more than thirty to sixty minutes.
YOU:Are we playing on the same server? Or are you just insane?
... but that doesn't make it fact.
You are hiding your intentions behind this "what is best for the most players" garbage. At least if you had the honesty to admit you just wanted the APL back so desperately that you'd be willing to take a watered down version, I could at least respect the honesty.
Your only arguments for this are...
If you don't want your name on the list DONT TALK!
and of course...
It would only update every 30 to 60 minutes. (Which by the way makes it effectively the exact same thing as the APL given that most people are on for longer than 30 to 60 minutes. Hell, I've seen people on as much as 2 to 4 hours at a time and I know of at least two players who claim that they stay logged in constantly unless there is an update.)
I realize you claim that people do not play for longer than 30 to 60 minutes...
ME: The vast majority of VOs player base is in game for far more than thirty to sixty minutes.
YOU:Are we playing on the same server? Or are you just insane?
... but that doesn't make it fact.
Atice: I have seen examples of player that would log because of other players. Some players believe they should be able to travel grey without contest. They do not think they should restrict themselves to the safe areas of the game, and also believe they should be afforded protection outside of those safe areas. I believe those players are entitled to their opinion. If people want to log because the game will not concede to their point, then let them.
see:
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/1/16965#214044
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/1/15146#190555
Seriously, My only concern with the old apl was alt discovery. what is the problem beyond that?
see:
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/1/16965#214044
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/1/15146#190555
Seriously, My only concern with the old apl was alt discovery. what is the problem beyond that?
Having read Atices insane zealotry in defense of an obvious cheat and Ryans only slightly less insane but logic based arguments against an obvious cheat, and Atices intent to go ahead and make the hax his own self if the developers dont do it for him, I have come to the conclusion that
A) the RPL is in fact no different than the APL with the exception that it does not record log offs.
and
B) IRC needs to go.
and
C) shut up already.
A) the RPL is in fact no different than the APL with the exception that it does not record log offs.
and
B) IRC needs to go.
and
C) shut up already.
Ryan, I don't want the APL back. I've said countless times I really, really enjoy the ability to run silent. Please stop trying to derail this thread. I understand you dislike this idea... that does not mean you get to keep posting the same complaint ad infinitum in an attempt to get the thread locked.
As for players playing only 30-60 minutes... my buddy list (which consists of over 120 active players) says otherwise. I believe most players would back me up on this, but they realize that that is really not the topic of this thread.
I'll respond once more to your comments here, and then I'm done responding to your posts here, since we're just rehashing the same shit over and over again. If you have something new to say, then I will respond to that.
If you don't want your name on the list DONT TALK!
To clarify, my argument is: "if you don't want people to know you are online, don't talk on public channels". This is advice I give to players in-game as-is. An RPL would not change that advice. Note: whether the people who know you are online is available to people in-game or all people is the main point of contention... but I believe we have agreed to disagree on this point.
It would only update every 30 to 60 minutes (Which [...] makes it effectively the exact same thing as the APL
The APL would definitively tell you whether a player was online (and it was accurate up to the minute no less). The RPL would not definitively tell you anything aside from the fact that the players on it talked within the last hour on channels 100/1. I fail to see how, given this obvious differentiation, the RPL would be the same as the APL for alt-finding. Moreover, given the well-understood rules for how the RPL would work, players could spend no more than 30 seconds (as outlined by Jmvcilus in an earlier post) to completely fool any attempts at alt-finding. If you meant to say that the RPL would be the same as the APL when it comes to telling you who was online (your post was unclear, so please excuse my conjecture as to your intent), I completely disagree. I would estimate that half, if not more than half, of the buddies on my list do not speak on 100, but in fact run silent... and my buddies are traders, not pirates (and I do say that pirates have greater incentive to run silent). As such, the RPL would in fact NOT be the same as the APL.
Added after initial post to respond to posts made while I was writing my response:
Some players believe they should be able to travel grey without contest.
I think we can all agree these people do not understand the nature of VO, and as such we really shouldn't care how they behave.
I have seen examples of player that would log because of other players.
I have as well. I also have seen more examples of players who don't log, but instead just move to a different location. Both arguments have examples, but my point was that neither argument has proof with regards to which happens more, and as such the argument is moot.
Seriously, My only concern with the old apl was alt discovery. what is the problem beyond that?
People should be able to run silent... but that discussion is better suited for another thread. Not to mention that discussion has happened on countless occasions prior.
@BobTheBarge: Thank you for explaining that you dislike IRC. As such, your post does not reflect much upon this suggestion (which builds upon current game mechanics), but is in effect a completely new suggestion, as I have explained in an earlier post in this thread. As for writing my own plugin, I will seek Dev approval before I do it.
As for players playing only 30-60 minutes... my buddy list (which consists of over 120 active players) says otherwise. I believe most players would back me up on this, but they realize that that is really not the topic of this thread.
I'll respond once more to your comments here, and then I'm done responding to your posts here, since we're just rehashing the same shit over and over again. If you have something new to say, then I will respond to that.
If you don't want your name on the list DONT TALK!
To clarify, my argument is: "if you don't want people to know you are online, don't talk on public channels". This is advice I give to players in-game as-is. An RPL would not change that advice. Note: whether the people who know you are online is available to people in-game or all people is the main point of contention... but I believe we have agreed to disagree on this point.
It would only update every 30 to 60 minutes (Which [...] makes it effectively the exact same thing as the APL
The APL would definitively tell you whether a player was online (and it was accurate up to the minute no less). The RPL would not definitively tell you anything aside from the fact that the players on it talked within the last hour on channels 100/1. I fail to see how, given this obvious differentiation, the RPL would be the same as the APL for alt-finding. Moreover, given the well-understood rules for how the RPL would work, players could spend no more than 30 seconds (as outlined by Jmvcilus in an earlier post) to completely fool any attempts at alt-finding. If you meant to say that the RPL would be the same as the APL when it comes to telling you who was online (your post was unclear, so please excuse my conjecture as to your intent), I completely disagree. I would estimate that half, if not more than half, of the buddies on my list do not speak on 100, but in fact run silent... and my buddies are traders, not pirates (and I do say that pirates have greater incentive to run silent). As such, the RPL would in fact NOT be the same as the APL.
Added after initial post to respond to posts made while I was writing my response:
Some players believe they should be able to travel grey without contest.
I think we can all agree these people do not understand the nature of VO, and as such we really shouldn't care how they behave.
I have seen examples of player that would log because of other players.
I have as well. I also have seen more examples of players who don't log, but instead just move to a different location. Both arguments have examples, but my point was that neither argument has proof with regards to which happens more, and as such the argument is moot.
Seriously, My only concern with the old apl was alt discovery. what is the problem beyond that?
People should be able to run silent... but that discussion is better suited for another thread. Not to mention that discussion has happened on countless occasions prior.
@BobTheBarge: Thank you for explaining that you dislike IRC. As such, your post does not reflect much upon this suggestion (which builds upon current game mechanics), but is in effect a completely new suggestion, as I have explained in an earlier post in this thread. As for writing my own plugin, I will seek Dev approval before I do it.
In response to BobTheBarge: While I may to a certain extent agree with your point C, I cannot agree with your first two points, at least not in this context.
Regarding point A, the RPL is different in one very significant way from the APL, in that it will only ever list you if you talk on 100. All the threads about removing the APL were full of people talking about how they could now fly silent, and people wouldn't know that they were there. This doesn't change that. There has never been any expectation of privacy or secrecy when you talk on 100, all we are discussing now is the scope of the lack of secrecy. There are arguments to be made on that topic, but trying to argue that this is going to take away more secrecy is disingenuous at best. More people would be made aware of your presence, but the fact of your presence is still yours to conceal.
As for IRC, it is a red herring here. You don't need IRC to make a plugin that does this, it just makes it easier. You don't even need a bot to make a plugin that does this, it would just make it easier. There is no way to keep someone from making a plugin that does this without completely gutting a LOT of the API, which would break a whole hell of a lot of other plugins. The capability is, to be reasonable, not going to go away. For all I know, somebody is already running something similar. Hell, multiple people probably are. The one thing that IRC allows is for someone who is not currently subscribed to do this, but if someone is not currently subscribed then they aren't going to be affected at all anyway. It's not like they'd be going to log in if they didn't see someone...
Regarding point A, the RPL is different in one very significant way from the APL, in that it will only ever list you if you talk on 100. All the threads about removing the APL were full of people talking about how they could now fly silent, and people wouldn't know that they were there. This doesn't change that. There has never been any expectation of privacy or secrecy when you talk on 100, all we are discussing now is the scope of the lack of secrecy. There are arguments to be made on that topic, but trying to argue that this is going to take away more secrecy is disingenuous at best. More people would be made aware of your presence, but the fact of your presence is still yours to conceal.
As for IRC, it is a red herring here. You don't need IRC to make a plugin that does this, it just makes it easier. You don't even need a bot to make a plugin that does this, it would just make it easier. There is no way to keep someone from making a plugin that does this without completely gutting a LOT of the API, which would break a whole hell of a lot of other plugins. The capability is, to be reasonable, not going to go away. For all I know, somebody is already running something similar. Hell, multiple people probably are. The one thing that IRC allows is for someone who is not currently subscribed to do this, but if someone is not currently subscribed then they aren't going to be affected at all anyway. It's not like they'd be going to log in if they didn't see someone...
I would like to see something on the apl page, but i would like it to be something more interesting that lecter said youre and idiot on 100.
Bounties collected or earned, Capships destroyed, Pirate activity.
I suggest we make a new channel, that you can only talk on once per hour, but will automatically got to the apl page. report a pirate, report an anti pirate, what ever. you are running silent until someone else sees you, and then all bets are off.
Bounties collected or earned, Capships destroyed, Pirate activity.
I suggest we make a new channel, that you can only talk on once per hour, but will automatically got to the apl page. report a pirate, report an anti pirate, what ever. you are running silent until someone else sees you, and then all bets are off.
+1 to Rodas idea.
It adds a sense of immersion, adds to the VO web site (and presumably could be considered constructive to in game as well.
"you are running silent until someone else sees you, and then all bets are off."
As it should be.
Atice, I'll try and explain my stance to you one more time. This running silent option of yours has no affect on me what so ever. I do not object to it because I care if people know I'm logged in. Honestly I'm not enough of a threat combat wise for anyone to worry about my being logged in or out.
I morally object to it, there is no reason for anyone I am not friends with to know if I am logged in or out and I reject your Stalinesque solution of, if you don't want people outside of the game to know you are logged in don't talk publicly. Trading a basic freedom for a persons inability to have information they should not have unless they log in is insanity
It adds a sense of immersion, adds to the VO web site (and presumably could be considered constructive to in game as well.
"you are running silent until someone else sees you, and then all bets are off."
As it should be.
Atice, I'll try and explain my stance to you one more time. This running silent option of yours has no affect on me what so ever. I do not object to it because I care if people know I'm logged in. Honestly I'm not enough of a threat combat wise for anyone to worry about my being logged in or out.
I morally object to it, there is no reason for anyone I am not friends with to know if I am logged in or out and I reject your Stalinesque solution of, if you don't want people outside of the game to know you are logged in don't talk publicly. Trading a basic freedom for a persons inability to have information they should not have unless they log in is insanity
Don't get me wrong. I fundamentally agree with atice, that once you have blown your cover, you are fair game all the way around.
I am not giving strong support to atice on two grounds:
Anyone can load irc.
and
I just don't want to swamp the apl with trivia. I want exiting stuff, and unless atice can invent some way to make it sound really exciting, i am going to look for better stuff.
I am not giving strong support to atice on two grounds:
Anyone can load irc.
and
I just don't want to swamp the apl with trivia. I want exiting stuff, and unless atice can invent some way to make it sound really exciting, i am going to look for better stuff.
"I fundamentally agree with atice, that once you have blown your cover, you are fair game all the way around."
That I have no issues with. If the posting of this info is optional to another player who physically sees you or at least sees you on the sector list, then sure... I have no issues with it.
That I have no issues with. If the posting of this info is optional to another player who physically sees you or at least sees you on the sector list, then sure... I have no issues with it.
-1 to OP. Like the 'verse without APL very much!
Just get somebody with a 24/7 irc presence to write something to grep the names of the people who've spoken on 100 during the last half hour and write a plugin to display those when you log on, like "none of your buddies are currently online". If the info is more than 30 minutes old is's probably outdated, and there's no need for the functionality if you're already logged in.
why is this thread still here.
As I said in another thread 5 years worth of people wanting the APL gone *counts in this thread* 6 or 7 people are not going to bring it back. The effects are far more positive than negative.
I see someone said less people log in since it was gone? no, no you are retarded, I run into way more people now. Only a few bitter hens that can't get their way stopped logging in and the were replaced by the 20 or 30 new nicks i saw this week alone.
if you want a web based list of irc go make it and get off the forums already.
Someone should lock this argument thread
As I said in another thread 5 years worth of people wanting the APL gone *counts in this thread* 6 or 7 people are not going to bring it back. The effects are far more positive than negative.
I see someone said less people log in since it was gone? no, no you are retarded, I run into way more people now. Only a few bitter hens that can't get their way stopped logging in and the were replaced by the 20 or 30 new nicks i saw this week alone.
if you want a web based list of irc go make it and get off the forums already.
Someone should lock this argument thread
Don't lock. Last few pages have been very constructive.
For those of you who think the RPL is an APL, please note the very significant differences between them. I'll admit the title of this thread could have been better.
I also don't understand why people are against making this data available to all, but seem just fine with users creating their own list.
Additionally, there have been a LOT of new features added since the removal of APL, so I'd say it is an incredibly unfair comparison (not to mention we have no way of finding out how many people are actually online now) to say that more people are or were online after or before the removal of the APL (or whether the change -- if there is one -- is even related to the removal of the APL). Let's drop that topic, shall we?
For those of you who think the RPL is an APL, please note the very significant differences between them. I'll admit the title of this thread could have been better.
I also don't understand why people are against making this data available to all, but seem just fine with users creating their own list.
Additionally, there have been a LOT of new features added since the removal of APL, so I'd say it is an incredibly unfair comparison (not to mention we have no way of finding out how many people are actually online now) to say that more people are or were online after or before the removal of the APL (or whether the change -- if there is one -- is even related to the removal of the APL). Let's drop that topic, shall we?
I agree with CS, though see no need for a lock. If these 6-7 people want to take turns jerking eachother off and slapping eachother around, no biggie. Just don't read it.
i'm going to give this thread one last
____O___O_________OOOOO_________O___O_________O___O_________O____O____"
____OO__O___________O___________OO__O_________OO__O__________O__O_____"
____O_O_O___________O___________O_O_O_________O_O_O___________OO______"
____O__OO___________O___________O__OO_________O__OO___________O_______"
____O___O_________OOOOO_________O___O_________O___O__________O________"
give it a rest :)
____O___O_________OOOOO_________O___O_________O___O_________O____O____"
____OO__O___________O___________OO__O_________OO__O__________O__O_____"
____O_O_O___________O___________O_O_O_________O_O_O___________OO______"
____O__OO___________O___________O__OO_________O__OO___________O_______"
____O___O_________OOOOO_________O___O_________O___O__________O________"
give it a rest :)
Wait. Is lecter in the group of 6? Or is lecter in the group with crazy, who is pretending he is the spokesperson for some group ( larger than 6 ) ?
Every time you act like you have already won the argument by default, you prove you haven't.
Every time you act like you are speaking for more than yourself, you are proving you do not consider your own opinion very important.
Every time...well... it just goes down hill from here, so let us not go over it right now.
Every time you act like you have already won the argument by default, you prove you haven't.
Every time you act like you are speaking for more than yourself, you are proving you do not consider your own opinion very important.
Every time...well... it just goes down hill from here, so let us not go over it right now.
i think its pretty obvious by the lack of support atice has that no one gives a fuck about it being taken out of game except for 6 (most likely less) people
Yeah, you're totally qualified to pronounce rules and maxims, Roda. Keep cutting and pasting the same shit you've been regurgitating for the past 6 pages -- or don't. Doesn't matter either way, because the whole concept is a craptastic waste of time. Of course, you're a pointless windbag, so I suppose it's a good fit for you.
I want something exciting on the apl page, or some page. if not this idea, then some other idea. It will not be enough for you to simply try to shoot this idea down. if you want to be sure and defeat it, you should make a point to support some other idea that is better. find something that makes the apl, or some other page, indicate that VO is currently, and at this very moment, action packed and just waiting for every newb to join up and play. Unless you guys just really like sitting in b8 waiting for the one time newb to show up.
There will be change. The only option you have, is to help decide what that change will be.
There will be change. The only option you have, is to help decide what that change will be.