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So, keeping that in mind, let's see some examples of the people they have regularly practiced injustice against.
I'd like to hear this as well. Unless he tries to include himself, which would undoubtedly invoke a collective chuckle throughout the listening audience (although that was the basis of his original argument a few months ago), he'll have no specific valid examples of anyone we've unjustly harassed, at least not with any evidence to back them up.
You get it professionally too that's why people hate lawyers because they don't seem to get it through their thick heads that it's possible (for some of us) to argue or take on positions that we don't personally agree with (advocacy).
Yeah. I have a feeling that TRS doesn't even believe in what he's "advocating". I think he feels that defending his absurd stance here is some sort of practice for his career in law (although I don't know how he has time for any career, let alone a law career, given the utterly ridiculous amount of time he devotes to this video game every week).
It appears that no one, not even other pirates, think that his idea has merit. He obviously has no ability to force us to implement his idea. He also apparently has no ability to convince anyone else that his idea has merit. So, I'm sure he knows that what he's suggesting will never happen. Maybe he feels that if he just keeps repeating the same hollow argument over and over again as he has been for the last 3+ months, he's somehow not losing. In this sort of situation, unlike in a real courtroom, there's no judge to slam the gavel and tell him that he's lost, so this could continue on indefinitely.
There's more to winning an argument than stubborn relentlessness.
I'd like to hear this as well. Unless he tries to include himself, which would undoubtedly invoke a collective chuckle throughout the listening audience (although that was the basis of his original argument a few months ago), he'll have no specific valid examples of anyone we've unjustly harassed, at least not with any evidence to back them up.
You get it professionally too that's why people hate lawyers because they don't seem to get it through their thick heads that it's possible (for some of us) to argue or take on positions that we don't personally agree with (advocacy).
Yeah. I have a feeling that TRS doesn't even believe in what he's "advocating". I think he feels that defending his absurd stance here is some sort of practice for his career in law (although I don't know how he has time for any career, let alone a law career, given the utterly ridiculous amount of time he devotes to this video game every week).
It appears that no one, not even other pirates, think that his idea has merit. He obviously has no ability to force us to implement his idea. He also apparently has no ability to convince anyone else that his idea has merit. So, I'm sure he knows that what he's suggesting will never happen. Maybe he feels that if he just keeps repeating the same hollow argument over and over again as he has been for the last 3+ months, he's somehow not losing. In this sort of situation, unlike in a real courtroom, there's no judge to slam the gavel and tell him that he's lost, so this could continue on indefinitely.
There's more to winning an argument than stubborn relentlessness.
I've never pirated. I'm a member of FAMY, dude. Even after clearly pointing that out and not firing back, Growlor shot me in UIT space. While I sat still. And didn't shoot back.
I don't play as much as I used to, but that *was* a clear case of injustice. He presented no warrant. I had no bounty. No player complained of me pirating.
FAMY clearly states that is is not strictly a pirate guild and many of our members do not pirate.
Undoubtedly, you VPR dudes will justify your continued oppression by saying things like "you shouldn't join a pirate guild."
FAMY ain't a pirate guild, dudes. It's a guild with pirates.
You destroyed my El-Do, Growlor. And you owe me. Pay or you end up taking a ride in the trunk of my new Caddy (Hound).
If you don't have a bounty, you don't have to worry about Guerro.
Not a pirate. Dude.
I don't play as much as I used to, but that *was* a clear case of injustice. He presented no warrant. I had no bounty. No player complained of me pirating.
FAMY clearly states that is is not strictly a pirate guild and many of our members do not pirate.
Undoubtedly, you VPR dudes will justify your continued oppression by saying things like "you shouldn't join a pirate guild."
FAMY ain't a pirate guild, dudes. It's a guild with pirates.
You destroyed my El-Do, Growlor. And you owe me. Pay or you end up taking a ride in the trunk of my new Caddy (Hound).
If you don't have a bounty, you don't have to worry about Guerro.
Not a pirate. Dude.
SORRY. but you have the FAMY tag you get shoot , FAMY are rats pure and simple. I dont care how they talk about guild its still a rat guild, maybe one day they will be turthful, its like saying yoda doesnt kill anyone with out a hail LMAO or say that when Rin (CHRN) is in a moth he is not a rat.
Yeah. Getting pirated is terrible. Poor FAMY dude.
Yeah go right ahead Strat. Feel free to ignore the merits all together and just psychoanalyse.
This is the only other occasion and place that I have brought up the idea that VPR should implement a separation of judgement/execution , so you can forget the whole "stubborn relentless" thing. Twice in the period of 6 months =/= stubborn and relentless. As for the stuff about my personal life, it's none of your business.
If somebody is aggrieved and they are vocal about it, the whole community rises up against them on 100 and tells the person to shut the hell up or "don't let the door hit your ass on the way out TM".
Now sure, there are occasions where this is reasonable and perhaps even justified, but if you don't have at least a basic safeguard or process that gives the aggrieved an outlet, you are risking the community arbitrarily shunning someone who had a perfectly reasonable complaint, and THAT is what makes us look bad.
No, I haven't taken the time to document any of these examples, but they do pop up from time to time and it is a recurring issue. The problem is not specific to the Vipers, as I have already said I recognise the pilots are just there to have fun and shoot pirates which is fine, but I do think they should be the ones to implement a system like this or stop pretending that what they do is justice.
I realise that I have obviously come out strongly against them specifically in this thread at some point and apologise for it, my problem is with the perception that that anyone they target justly deserves it, not that they shouldn't be able to target them.
This is the only other occasion and place that I have brought up the idea that VPR should implement a separation of judgement/execution , so you can forget the whole "stubborn relentless" thing. Twice in the period of 6 months =/= stubborn and relentless. As for the stuff about my personal life, it's none of your business.
If somebody is aggrieved and they are vocal about it, the whole community rises up against them on 100 and tells the person to shut the hell up or "don't let the door hit your ass on the way out TM".
Now sure, there are occasions where this is reasonable and perhaps even justified, but if you don't have at least a basic safeguard or process that gives the aggrieved an outlet, you are risking the community arbitrarily shunning someone who had a perfectly reasonable complaint, and THAT is what makes us look bad.
No, I haven't taken the time to document any of these examples, but they do pop up from time to time and it is a recurring issue. The problem is not specific to the Vipers, as I have already said I recognise the pilots are just there to have fun and shoot pirates which is fine, but I do think they should be the ones to implement a system like this or stop pretending that what they do is justice.
I realise that I have obviously come out strongly against them specifically in this thread at some point and apologise for it, my problem is with the perception that that anyone they target justly deserves it, not that they shouldn't be able to target them.
Conclusion:
Vipers are a bunch of bullies, just like the "pirates" and the rest of anyone who likes to kill players. Also, this thread was a worthless waste of time.
Vipers are a bunch of bullies, just like the "pirates" and the rest of anyone who likes to kill players. Also, this thread was a worthless waste of time.
Guerro, FAMY may not be a strictly pirate organization, but they have a large number of prolific pirates. Even if you are not personally involved in the piracy, you are still an accomplice.
I don't see why some people don't understand this. I think they're just trying to play both sides, i.e. be friendly with both the pirates and the non-pirates so they can safely trade. But it doesn't work that way. If you are too friendly with pirates (e.g. in their guild), the non-pirates are going to not like you. You don't get to not have any enemies. Somebody out there is going to be after you.
It's faction mutual exclusivity, except with actual social factions, not game provided factions.
I don't see why some people don't understand this. I think they're just trying to play both sides, i.e. be friendly with both the pirates and the non-pirates so they can safely trade. But it doesn't work that way. If you are too friendly with pirates (e.g. in their guild), the non-pirates are going to not like you. You don't get to not have any enemies. Somebody out there is going to be after you.
It's faction mutual exclusivity, except with actual social factions, not game provided factions.
No Rin, they're trying to play interesting roles like hitman, bounty hunter or smuggler but can't because they get treated as pirates. The verse is polarised to be either pirates or antipirates (for or against) as if there can't be some people in between. That's all Guerro is trying to do, but people do irrational things around him because they treat him as a pirate.
A ninja Viper steps out from the shadows ...
When I joined Viper I was warned that the VPR tag will attract attention, perhaps FAMY could do the same for its new players. That way the occasional nice and friendly law abiding, hitman, bounty hunter or smuggler wont be so shocked.
May I ask who in the FAMY council aren't taking the role of pirate or criminal. Please don't reply with the warrenty/insurance saleman crud. Who's protecting the interests of these peace-loving FAMY players? Perhaps those that want to role play a different style should make an effort to get on the council and change the running of their own guild.
Finally I think this is actually quite a successful thread, now with 108 posts it surpasses the sticky mentor thread and if TheRedSpy continues to flog that dead horse it may rival “You might be a vendetta addict if...” thread. :)
.... you have not seen me I was never here!
When I joined Viper I was warned that the VPR tag will attract attention, perhaps FAMY could do the same for its new players. That way the occasional nice and friendly law abiding, hitman, bounty hunter or smuggler wont be so shocked.
May I ask who in the FAMY council aren't taking the role of pirate or criminal. Please don't reply with the warrenty/insurance saleman crud. Who's protecting the interests of these peace-loving FAMY players? Perhaps those that want to role play a different style should make an effort to get on the council and change the running of their own guild.
Finally I think this is actually quite a successful thread, now with 108 posts it surpasses the sticky mentor thread and if TheRedSpy continues to flog that dead horse it may rival “You might be a vendetta addict if...” thread. :)
.... you have not seen me I was never here!
I am renouncing piracy and no longer taking the role of pirate or criminal. I will from now on only kill people that I do not like.
So that makes me a viper I guess.. hurrah! [VPR] TheRedSpy
So that makes me a viper I guess.. hurrah! [VPR] TheRedSpy
My actual homepage looks more like this:
to clarify, all members of @X are pirates or criminals and deserved to face da gallows many times.
I will shoot VPR they will shoot at me and i am fine with this.
Mixing RPs in guild is not good and can bring only confusions.
May i sugest ye FAMY to be split into several guilds so da armed branch remains isolated from legit activities but at a level that they still can cooperate somehow:
Ye could make a meta guild, i am sure ye haz da technology to get all advantages of a guild especially in terms of communications and knowledge sharing with all its members from the different composing guilds. Just my 2c here.
I will shoot VPR they will shoot at me and i am fine with this.
Mixing RPs in guild is not good and can bring only confusions.
May i sugest ye FAMY to be split into several guilds so da armed branch remains isolated from legit activities but at a level that they still can cooperate somehow:
Ye could make a meta guild, i am sure ye haz da technology to get all advantages of a guild especially in terms of communications and knowledge sharing with all its members from the different composing guilds. Just my 2c here.
Undoubtedly, you VPR dudes will justify your continued oppression by saying things like "you shouldn't join a pirate guild."
You shouldn't join a guild that attacks Vipers and everyone else if you don't want to be attacked by Vipers and everyone else. You also could have just hit turbo instead of just sitting there and Growlor never would have been able to catch you. You fly a combat ship...
You shouldn't join a guild that attacks Vipers and everyone else if you don't want to be attacked by Vipers and everyone else. You also could have just hit turbo instead of just sitting there and Growlor never would have been able to catch you. You fly a combat ship...
[moved to roleplaying]
While I do agree that actually calling non-pirates pirate is wrong, I don't agree that it's wrong for them to be shot down. What would be the point of being a smuggler if the cops aren't after you? Police love hitmen even less.
TheRedSpy wrote:
My actual homepage looks more like this:
My actual homepage looks more like this:
Damn it moved to RP, where threads go to die.
:(
:(
Mine looks like this:
Hey that's your doomsday Avatar