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Repairs cost ~50% MORE THAN as a new ship.
Fixed.
Seriously, what is up with the repair costs? Why is it cheaper for me to sell a badly damaged ship (and buy a brand new one), than repair the mostly-functional hull which I have? Yes, I know it was always like this, but with the broken economy everyone had so much money that they did not care.
Yesterday I ran Hive hunts for ~3 hours (mostly in a Rag3, but also in a Prom for a bit), and it cost me ~1M. I died twice. At one point my 70k Prom cost me 117k to repair.
From a gameplay perspective, that much of a repair bill is prohibitive, it forces players who want to "just shoot stuff" to either play the trading/mining game, or indefinitely fly "lesser" hulls. Which removes the whole point of gaining levels, as the hulls which get unlocked will then be unplayable because nobody can afford to repair them.
For now I am hanging up my guns, and will be mining and trading. I simply cannot afford to get shot.
Fixed.
Seriously, what is up with the repair costs? Why is it cheaper for me to sell a badly damaged ship (and buy a brand new one), than repair the mostly-functional hull which I have? Yes, I know it was always like this, but with the broken economy everyone had so much money that they did not care.
Yesterday I ran Hive hunts for ~3 hours (mostly in a Rag3, but also in a Prom for a bit), and it cost me ~1M. I died twice. At one point my 70k Prom cost me 117k to repair.
From a gameplay perspective, that much of a repair bill is prohibitive, it forces players who want to "just shoot stuff" to either play the trading/mining game, or indefinitely fly "lesser" hulls. Which removes the whole point of gaining levels, as the hulls which get unlocked will then be unplayable because nobody can afford to repair them.
For now I am hanging up my guns, and will be mining and trading. I simply cannot afford to get shot.
Got to agree about the repair costs being more than the value of the ship. But regardless, its still ridiculously easy to make lots of credits in the game. This is probably going to be one of the best changes the devs have made to VO in a long time. Its when they start raising the cost of the weapons that I'll panic :P
the TD is uber expensive....
I will pay that much for the TD if it is restored to its original speed and agility
The price changes are a good addition, especially cause they don't really affect me and my old Chevy Hog but if the TD gets restored to its former glory then i'll shell out the extra coin for that
I will pay that much for the TD if it is restored to its original speed and agility
The price changes are a good addition, especially cause they don't really affect me and my old Chevy Hog but if the TD gets restored to its former glory then i'll shell out the extra coin for that
repair costs being high when locals do not have said ship does make sense. should it ever exceed original ship cost? probably.
there comes a point where a ship is totaled.
where i think it doesn't make sense is that resale value of the ship doesn't take into account it's repair costs. there should come a point where the ship is worthless (resale value of zero) and the only thing you can do is scrap it or pay the expense to repair it because it's otherwise not possible to have the same thing locally.
i fully endorse ship value loss.
but, dang, right now, just doing combat, it's impossible to make a living. acquisition costs are way unbalanced for income opportunities for fighter pilots.
i know and understand we're in-between states here with the economy redux but could we balance things a bit? like getting an hourly pay for being enrolled in either nation militaries? say, the equivalent of one specialized ship per hour?
there comes a point where a ship is totaled.
where i think it doesn't make sense is that resale value of the ship doesn't take into account it's repair costs. there should come a point where the ship is worthless (resale value of zero) and the only thing you can do is scrap it or pay the expense to repair it because it's otherwise not possible to have the same thing locally.
i fully endorse ship value loss.
but, dang, right now, just doing combat, it's impossible to make a living. acquisition costs are way unbalanced for income opportunities for fighter pilots.
i know and understand we're in-between states here with the economy redux but could we balance things a bit? like getting an hourly pay for being enrolled in either nation militaries? say, the equivalent of one specialized ship per hour?
Aramarth said:
[quote]Now get ahold of yourselves people. I am speaking to LostCause in particular.
Running doesn't save you any damn money. Repairs cost just as much as a new ship. Get shot to 50% twice and repair it, and you have just paid the same amount as a new hull minus the guns (which are a fairly trivial cost at this point). Running will only increase among those who are both honorless AND math class dropouts.
The only way to save your dimes now is to truly never get shot.[/quote]
You are wrong my dear fellow.
Running does save you money. There have been and still are, very different styles of combat in VO. We had/have our share of lame pilots who fight by backstabbing and running away, swarming from distance and similar tactics. They do not lose any money or ships. Their time has come again since THAT will become quite acceptable way of combat in new VO.
We in SKV have always had a rule "Finish what you started". If you are going to fight and die, fight and die with honor.
We are not traders or miners, we are fighter pilots so in an unbalanced VO like this we will become a dying breed very soon.
Get ready to fight missile spammers and runners, their time is coming.
[quote]Now get ahold of yourselves people. I am speaking to LostCause in particular.
Running doesn't save you any damn money. Repairs cost just as much as a new ship. Get shot to 50% twice and repair it, and you have just paid the same amount as a new hull minus the guns (which are a fairly trivial cost at this point). Running will only increase among those who are both honorless AND math class dropouts.
The only way to save your dimes now is to truly never get shot.[/quote]
You are wrong my dear fellow.
Running does save you money. There have been and still are, very different styles of combat in VO. We had/have our share of lame pilots who fight by backstabbing and running away, swarming from distance and similar tactics. They do not lose any money or ships. Their time has come again since THAT will become quite acceptable way of combat in new VO.
We in SKV have always had a rule "Finish what you started". If you are going to fight and die, fight and die with honor.
We are not traders or miners, we are fighter pilots so in an unbalanced VO like this we will become a dying breed very soon.
Get ready to fight missile spammers and runners, their time is coming.
Centurion Itani Border Guardian [64,995 c]
Valkyrie X-1 [60,000 c]
Something seems wrong here. The IBG model costs nearly 200x the base model Centurion and might have a hard time against the, cheaper, experimental prototype available at the same station.
Valkyrie X-1 [60,000 c]
Something seems wrong here. The IBG model costs nearly 200x the base model Centurion and might have a hard time against the, cheaper, experimental prototype available at the same station.
Bit off topic, but this new reality (which I personally love, although the repair issue does need to be sorted out, something along the lines of what uppercase suggested sounds good), could really use the non-destructive duel function that many have suggested (myself included).
Other than that, a couple thoughts I've had while digesting all of this over the past couple days:
1. Bojan, the days of proper honourable pvp have been disappearing long before this came around, and while I agree this will hasten that course, I don't think it will wipe it out all together. For a long time people stuck around to finish fights simply because there wasn't a cost attached to it. Claiming the high road was just an added benefit. Now that those costs have finally risen to where they should be, we'll see who really does adhere to those same philosophies.
2. This really does benefit those who are skilled at pvp, as they will be able to afford flying around in the elite ships more often. Will this result in a more difficult learning process for noobs and Leber alike? I doubt it. Having access to elite ships at an early time in one's development is detrimental to developing any skill. While they'll certainly get waxed often enough by the vets, forcing people to learn on slower, less agile ships, I think will have better long term results.
3. The death of B8 is nigh!
Other than that, a couple thoughts I've had while digesting all of this over the past couple days:
1. Bojan, the days of proper honourable pvp have been disappearing long before this came around, and while I agree this will hasten that course, I don't think it will wipe it out all together. For a long time people stuck around to finish fights simply because there wasn't a cost attached to it. Claiming the high road was just an added benefit. Now that those costs have finally risen to where they should be, we'll see who really does adhere to those same philosophies.
2. This really does benefit those who are skilled at pvp, as they will be able to afford flying around in the elite ships more often. Will this result in a more difficult learning process for noobs and Leber alike? I doubt it. Having access to elite ships at an early time in one's development is detrimental to developing any skill. While they'll certainly get waxed often enough by the vets, forcing people to learn on slower, less agile ships, I think will have better long term results.
3. The death of B8 is nigh!
I will not run from fights. I will fight in B8 until there is noone left to fight. I will use whatever ship I want to use, and I won't care if it goes boom. And if I run out of money, I will go do escorts while thinking of better ways to fight so I won't run out of money so quickly in the future.
We're only a dying breed if we let ourselves die.
We're only a dying breed if we let ourselves die.
Quick comment on repair costs:
Last February I was driving a shitty little '94 Mazda Protegé worth about $2000 (I'd payed $3000 for it), and some chick in a minivan thought she had time to make it through a stop sign on the ice. Long story short, the repairs on my car would have exceeded $3000, so her insurance had to buy it for $2100, and I bought an awesome Jeep Cherokee for $1500, making a $600 profit.
Okay, someone explain to me again why repair costs exceeding ship costs is too far from reality (I know, I'm dealing in used cars, but hey).
Last February I was driving a shitty little '94 Mazda Protegé worth about $2000 (I'd payed $3000 for it), and some chick in a minivan thought she had time to make it through a stop sign on the ice. Long story short, the repairs on my car would have exceeded $3000, so her insurance had to buy it for $2100, and I bought an awesome Jeep Cherokee for $1500, making a $600 profit.
Okay, someone explain to me again why repair costs exceeding ship costs is too far from reality (I know, I'm dealing in used cars, but hey).
Because this issue is not to dealing with reality, imo.
It's with the fact that this means there is *no* reason to bother surviving and trying to repair.
It's with the fact that this means there is *no* reason to bother surviving and trying to repair.
You're actually right, Pirogoeth2; in this game repair costs should be less than new ship costs, except in cases where the ship is unavailable for any reason (it would be cool if you had to actually buy and replace specific parts, and the ship may in some cases be unrepairable if a part is unavailable). My comment was in response to people saying it was too unrealistic. Other arguments, such as yours, are much more persuasive.
If in the real world there were only a few different models of cars, and they were all in production all the time, it would be realistic. But that's not how the world works, it is how VO works, so the "people saying it was unrealistic" are right. You're trying to compare two very different situations Chaos, and using kind of shoddy logic. Congrats on the $600 though. Really, nice job.
My point is that there is a point at which your ship may be totaled, and it may make more economic sense to sell it for a new one. I was just pointing out a real-world situation that is similar to the current VO situation. I admitted it wasn't perfect, since I was dealing with used cars, and theoretically all VO ships are new. It would be cool in the distant future if there was a difference between new and used ships (kind of like in EV-Nova, where used crappy ships were cheaper and used modified ships were better), but that I would put as a very low priority.
One more thought... The Aeolus moth has a weaker engine and less cargo space than the normal version. Should it not cost less?
"11:46AM Nansens Cat
Centurion Itani Border Guardian [64,995 c]
Valkyrie X-1 [60,000 c]
Something seems wrong here. The IBG model costs nearly 200x the base model Centurion and might have a hard time against the, cheaper, experimental prototype available at the same station."
what i came here to say has already been said.
this is the biggest thing thats stood out to me since the ship proce changes. (aside from the fact that i was about to start dabbling with PvP and i am no longer going to do that because i wouldnt be able to afford the ships it would take)
Centurion Itani Border Guardian [64,995 c]
Valkyrie X-1 [60,000 c]
Something seems wrong here. The IBG model costs nearly 200x the base model Centurion and might have a hard time against the, cheaper, experimental prototype available at the same station."
what i came here to say has already been said.
this is the biggest thing thats stood out to me since the ship proce changes. (aside from the fact that i was about to start dabbling with PvP and i am no longer going to do that because i wouldnt be able to afford the ships it would take)
I think the general sentiment seems to be that the increase in ship price is a good thing, but the new ship prices need to be logical, which they currently are not. If everything is going to cost a lot more money, that's fine. But there's currently no reason for IBG's to cost more than valks or for the SVG to cost more than a Prom MkIII (though that may be more just my opinion)or for the warthog TD to be drastically more expensive than other hogs. I know the prices are still subject to change, but charging 50,000 credits for a ship that had no real reason to fly it in the first place seems a bit silly. Unless, that is, you're planning on changing the ship to match the price.
Maybe drop the prices of the IBG, SVG and TD and leave the proms and valks at their current new pricing.
Maybe drop the prices of the IBG, SVG and TD and leave the proms and valks at their current new pricing.
No, don't drop the prices, increase the prices for Valks/Proms/etc.!
I agree with Ghost.
I agree with Niki.
I agree with genka.