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Ok, forget it, the orion cent isn't broken. Specially since it doesn't stand a chance against an AGT wielding prom. I couldn't dodge it, I couldn't do enough damage, and I couldn't get away from it, not to mention that it can dodge now.
This isn't about revenge for the amount of time that the prom has gone without fixing, this is about balance, and this is a damn shitty balance when a prom can annihilate ANYTHING in a few seconds.
Furthermore, if the serco use this tomorrow, the itani are going to lose for the SIXTH time a row. Is anyone actually thinking or worried about this? Is anyone worried that PERHAPS, players might become frustrated upon NEVER being able to win?
The Serco always had options... there were responses to the valk (the SVG was a very good one which was entirely unappreciated). Responses to the cent (even if you DID have to up your standing with some no name faction, again another balance issue).
But what's the response to this ship? I honestly can't think of anything short of another prom.
Edit: Let me add that I won't be playing till monday, to see if they're fixed... because there is no amount of skill that can offset these ships.Back to playing go.
This isn't about revenge for the amount of time that the prom has gone without fixing, this is about balance, and this is a damn shitty balance when a prom can annihilate ANYTHING in a few seconds.
Furthermore, if the serco use this tomorrow, the itani are going to lose for the SIXTH time a row. Is anyone actually thinking or worried about this? Is anyone worried that PERHAPS, players might become frustrated upon NEVER being able to win?
The Serco always had options... there were responses to the valk (the SVG was a very good one which was entirely unappreciated). Responses to the cent (even if you DID have to up your standing with some no name faction, again another balance issue).
But what's the response to this ship? I honestly can't think of anything short of another prom.
Edit: Let me add that I won't be playing till monday, to see if they're fixed... because there is no amount of skill that can offset these ships.Back to playing go.
First of all Ayn, the I was talking about the SVG back when the valk was considered the best ship. At that point, I started flyin the Corvus Vulturious, which was exactly the same as the SVG. Because I thought it was better. I stand behind my convictions.
Secondly, I was also making the point that forcing the serco to get an Orion cent was a serious balance issue. READ WHAT I WROTE!
Stop misreading anti-serco intentions into EVERYTHING.
Secondly, I was also making the point that forcing the serco to get an Orion cent was a serious balance issue. READ WHAT I WROTE!
Stop misreading anti-serco intentions into EVERYTHING.
This is the first try at making the ships more massive and the engines more powerful. This whole "heavy ship" project is a whole new direction for ship balance. If they need to be adjusted some more, so be it. I was worried they might be too powerful, but there's only so much I can do in my own limited testing. Upping the HP to 22k on the SkyCommand probably pushed it over the edge. But, we'll see.
ooohhhhh,
add a faction with a promlike ship...
pleaaaasssssseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee I would be in your debt for all eternity :D. Just as there should be a faction that has somesort of knockoff of a valk.
I would say lets wait what the change to the ragnarok will be. But it is normally not the same ship as a prom. So I wonder how the wraith compares to a prom, since in my eyes these 2 ships are the same but the prom is only a glorified wraith mk4. Just like the valk should be a glorified vulture mk4. In terms of balance.
PS: the marauder should be a glorified atlasmk4. But we will see.
PPS: anybody checked out the hornet and seen if it is an ok ship or needs some additions? In mass and thrust, sinc eit is the second biggest ship (easiest to hit) and has 4 small ports meaning a whole lot of added weight. Who knows maybe the hornet guardian is supposed to be the 'easy' counter for a prom. It is a support fighter after all.
add a faction with a promlike ship...
pleaaaasssssseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee I would be in your debt for all eternity :D. Just as there should be a faction that has somesort of knockoff of a valk.
I would say lets wait what the change to the ragnarok will be. But it is normally not the same ship as a prom. So I wonder how the wraith compares to a prom, since in my eyes these 2 ships are the same but the prom is only a glorified wraith mk4. Just like the valk should be a glorified vulture mk4. In terms of balance.
PS: the marauder should be a glorified atlasmk4. But we will see.
PPS: anybody checked out the hornet and seen if it is an ok ship or needs some additions? In mass and thrust, sinc eit is the second biggest ship (easiest to hit) and has 4 small ports meaning a whole lot of added weight. Who knows maybe the hornet guardian is supposed to be the 'easy' counter for a prom. It is a support fighter after all.
this _could_ lead to an interesting set of scenarios. we might end up with having to counter ships with ships. a Cent might not hold its own against a Prom, but a Prom might not hold its own against a Hornet et al. that train of thought would be interesting.
oh, and they're yet to fiddle with the Ragnarok. there's a ship that has a potential to be a great aid against Proms.
oh, and they're yet to fiddle with the Ragnarok. there's a ship that has a potential to be a great aid against Proms.
I agree w/ Renegade. There's all sorts of different factions with Marauders, why not one or two non-Itani Valkyrie & non-Serco Prometheus? I think the Itani & Serco versions should be a little better than the others, but then, I'd've thought the UIT Marauder should be one of the best Marauders, rather than one of the worst...
i am very pleased with the promtheius balences. an excelent job at best.
the promethious is FINALLY what it should have been, almost a year of waiting for the balence and finally on this very night, it happend! and what we saw was GOOD!
i was dueling holden, shape, and Aon within my AGT skycommand prom, because earier i could not keep their orion/ibg cents within the gauss cannon's autoaim range. there were two other options.
1. use rockets.
2. use an AGT.
i used number 2, which worked agesn't the flying zippos :P
currently in a prom you cannot track cents very well, it's very hard to keep them in view when dog fighting (this is with 0 backstraffing)
i feel the prom is balenced perfectly right now, but the AGT itself should be balenced. as i said previously it is -very- hard to keep a cent in view, and rightfully so. the AGT's auto aim could be reduced by a slight margin to compensait for this, rather than have the prom suffer because of a single weapon.
the promethious is FINALLY what it should have been, almost a year of waiting for the balence and finally on this very night, it happend! and what we saw was GOOD!
i was dueling holden, shape, and Aon within my AGT skycommand prom, because earier i could not keep their orion/ibg cents within the gauss cannon's autoaim range. there were two other options.
1. use rockets.
2. use an AGT.
i used number 2, which worked agesn't the flying zippos :P
currently in a prom you cannot track cents very well, it's very hard to keep them in view when dog fighting (this is with 0 backstraffing)
i feel the prom is balenced perfectly right now, but the AGT itself should be balenced. as i said previously it is -very- hard to keep a cent in view, and rightfully so. the AGT's auto aim could be reduced by a slight margin to compensait for this, rather than have the prom suffer because of a single weapon.
to thread a bit further on the grounds of beolachs post.
Make for instance the best prom and the best valk multually exclusively. Meaning if you have 800+ admire with itani, it is impossible to get -600+ with serco. vice versa the same
Same for the second best and third best.
PS: in my eyes the 'non-serco prom' should be awarded by the faction that has a special wraith (sorry can't remember which it is). And only once you have like +900 standing. It would still remain a possibility and make the serco prom not the only option. But would not demean the power and specialness of the serco special, aka thje prom.
Just as the 'non-Itani valk' should require +900 with the orion faction. (obtainable after the hornet guardian)
PS: in my eyes the orion and then the one that gives you the special of non serco prom should be mutually exclusive. Just as valent and corvus should be mutually exclusive.
Afterward you can always add some other restrictions like if you have more then 400 on tgp, you can only get more then 400 on valent. If you have more then 400 on tpg forget to get ever more then 400 on corvus. If you have more then 200 on serco forget to ever get more then 200 on the non-serco prom faction.
Reason behind it: If somebody is offering a knockoff of your nations special, you will not look favorably upon them and any of their henchies or cronies.
cheers
Make for instance the best prom and the best valk multually exclusively. Meaning if you have 800+ admire with itani, it is impossible to get -600+ with serco. vice versa the same
Same for the second best and third best.
PS: in my eyes the 'non-serco prom' should be awarded by the faction that has a special wraith (sorry can't remember which it is). And only once you have like +900 standing. It would still remain a possibility and make the serco prom not the only option. But would not demean the power and specialness of the serco special, aka thje prom.
Just as the 'non-Itani valk' should require +900 with the orion faction. (obtainable after the hornet guardian)
PS: in my eyes the orion and then the one that gives you the special of non serco prom should be mutually exclusive. Just as valent and corvus should be mutually exclusive.
Afterward you can always add some other restrictions like if you have more then 400 on tgp, you can only get more then 400 on valent. If you have more then 400 on tpg forget to get ever more then 400 on corvus. If you have more then 200 on serco forget to ever get more then 200 on the non-serco prom faction.
Reason behind it: If somebody is offering a knockoff of your nations special, you will not look favorably upon them and any of their henchies or cronies.
cheers
Yeah, now that I've calmed down after being entirely annihilated...
the problem is the AGT. It was very good at making heavier ships useful. But now its SO good with an already good ship, as to take the skill out of piloting.
Nerf it, nerf it fast, preferably by tomorrow, otherwise there are going to be a lot of unhappy itani when the CTC shipments ramp up.
It can be officially balanced later but.. right now, it's way too powerful.
Rockets are going to be insane on these proms. I was fighting Sebastian, he had screamers and gausses. Now, he didn't rocketram me, and that's why I was able to win. But HAD he rocketrammed me, the prom would have been nearly unscathed and I would have been toast. The proms can easily lock on with the small ships at that range.
the problem is the AGT. It was very good at making heavier ships useful. But now its SO good with an already good ship, as to take the skill out of piloting.
Nerf it, nerf it fast, preferably by tomorrow, otherwise there are going to be a lot of unhappy itani when the CTC shipments ramp up.
It can be officially balanced later but.. right now, it's way too powerful.
Rockets are going to be insane on these proms. I was fighting Sebastian, he had screamers and gausses. Now, he didn't rocketram me, and that's why I was able to win. But HAD he rocketrammed me, the prom would have been nearly unscathed and I would have been toast. The proms can easily lock on with the small ships at that range.
only solution to rocketramming is making it add 2 - 3 times the damage that you inflict on others to yourselve. And this should only be last ditch attempts and NOT the whole tactic during the entire fight. AKA a kamikaze attempt...
Reason behind it, you are blowing up rockets before your own tubes had the chance to close, inflicting critical damage to yourselve
It will be just as detrimental for valk-rocketrammers as prom-rocketrammers.
PS: probably this can later be reconverted into adding critical damage like disabling a rocketport, or blowing up a port or...
PPS: don't act to harshly please, the agt has always been good, but first check the agt on other ships before you decrease the usefullness of a weapon and not the ship. It can easilly be that th eprom is just slightly to powerfull if the agt used on a rag or on the centaur or on wraith or on warthog does not have the same effect.... At the moment it is easier to cheznge the prom somewhat then to adapt the weapons just because a prom rules when you use an agt on it...
cheers
Reason behind it, you are blowing up rockets before your own tubes had the chance to close, inflicting critical damage to yourselve
It will be just as detrimental for valk-rocketrammers as prom-rocketrammers.
PS: probably this can later be reconverted into adding critical damage like disabling a rocketport, or blowing up a port or...
PPS: don't act to harshly please, the agt has always been good, but first check the agt on other ships before you decrease the usefullness of a weapon and not the ship. It can easilly be that th eprom is just slightly to powerfull if the agt used on a rag or on the centaur or on wraith or on warthog does not have the same effect.... At the moment it is easier to cheznge the prom somewhat then to adapt the weapons just because a prom rules when you use an agt on it...
cheers
This is my first and last post on this uber-prom issue.
I agree with Shape that the AGT has to be nerfed, and nerfed real fast before the Serco players take out a fleet of Prom+AGT and win for the sixth time. No I don't care who wins in general, but maybe one should worry about the frustration level of half the VO players right now.
I think the whole thing will play itself out and senses will prevail. When a ship is uber, people will know it. The sad thing, to me, though is that it has to lead to so much hair-pulling, chest-beating, and angst, just because of one game.
I agree with Shape that the AGT has to be nerfed, and nerfed real fast before the Serco players take out a fleet of Prom+AGT and win for the sixth time. No I don't care who wins in general, but maybe one should worry about the frustration level of half the VO players right now.
I think the whole thing will play itself out and senses will prevail. When a ship is uber, people will know it. The sad thing, to me, though is that it has to lead to so much hair-pulling, chest-beating, and angst, just because of one game.
sigh please before you nerf a weapon consider the influence it has on all the ships able to mount an agt...
remember the nerfing of the rail and the sunflare(although only small nerfing)
remember the nerfing of the rail and the sunflare(although only small nerfing)
Regarding the AGT, yeah, I don't want to see AGT hog pilots lose their wep.
However, I do not want to take away the serco's new toy, (as they've been waiting for it for a long tim). It's a
matter of urgency right now, since the Itani finally came out today and organized. If they are shut down by this ship, it may be difficult to work past the frustration to get them all out and together again.
However, I do not want to take away the serco's new toy, (as they've been waiting for it for a long tim). It's a
matter of urgency right now, since the Itani finally came out today and organized. If they are shut down by this ship, it may be difficult to work past the frustration to get them all out and together again.
shape, during harsh times people work more easilly,together then when they have the best of all.
Or why do you think that the sercos rule now... Not because they have the best ships (because they didn't before they wasted you all). But because they worked together and killed everybody.
Besides trust me, there are a lot of serco people that only chose for serco or fight ctc because they were the underdog due to the itanis valks and stuff... And as soon as they notice this decrepancy im sure that some of these 'vets' take out an itani char to help the itani in stead of the serco.
People love helping the underdog... I did that all the time :D
PS; besides if we do not change the prom sliughtly now then you will see it get a nerfing later. AND trust me on this, since this has happened before. Some ofn the sercovets might remember it...
Or why do you think that the sercos rule now... Not because they have the best ships (because they didn't before they wasted you all). But because they worked together and killed everybody.
Besides trust me, there are a lot of serco people that only chose for serco or fight ctc because they were the underdog due to the itanis valks and stuff... And as soon as they notice this decrepancy im sure that some of these 'vets' take out an itani char to help the itani in stead of the serco.
People love helping the underdog... I did that all the time :D
PS; besides if we do not change the prom sliughtly now then you will see it get a nerfing later. AND trust me on this, since this has happened before. Some ofn the sercovets might remember it...
"It can easilly be that th eprom is just slightly to powerfull if the agt used on a rag or on the centaur or on wraith or on warthog"
for the centaur... what you should really be worrying about is dual AGT centaurs. a prom has nothing on that, heh.
as for the ragnarok, wraith and the warthogs, i imagine they will be balenced, too. as incarnate said they have to rebalence everything now as they're using a new system. when the hogs, and the wraiths get balenced then this prom+AGT problem will move over to any heavy ship (that can use large ports).
if i'm reading incarnates mind right (:P), the heavy ships are going to follow in the prom's footsteps, as they should be.
for the centaur... what you should really be worrying about is dual AGT centaurs. a prom has nothing on that, heh.
as for the ragnarok, wraith and the warthogs, i imagine they will be balenced, too. as incarnate said they have to rebalence everything now as they're using a new system. when the hogs, and the wraiths get balenced then this prom+AGT problem will move over to any heavy ship (that can use large ports).
if i'm reading incarnates mind right (:P), the heavy ships are going to follow in the prom's footsteps, as they should be.
sputnik, are you sure that it is the agt and not the ship...
Since I do not know, I just remember the nerfings that happened just because a new change was made which was to good. And the only change made was the change to the heavy ships... Why change all the weapons if you can chenge the ships to counter the problem. Especially since you are already changing the ships ... So anothe rsmall tuning to a ship will not matter that much.
Since im sure, in a couple of days after the agt will be nerfed, people will complain about the gauss, then the jackhammers then the... swarms...
But I want to see more people that use the prom say their piece. Spider... lin... others...
Since I do not know, I just remember the nerfings that happened just because a new change was made which was to good. And the only change made was the change to the heavy ships... Why change all the weapons if you can chenge the ships to counter the problem. Especially since you are already changing the ships ... So anothe rsmall tuning to a ship will not matter that much.
Since im sure, in a couple of days after the agt will be nerfed, people will complain about the gauss, then the jackhammers then the... swarms...
But I want to see more people that use the prom say their piece. Spider... lin... others...
Look, I understand why the serco have been winning, but for the last little while, (at least the last several CTC's) it has not been due to a lack of firepower.
We're not talking about a ship that is slightly better. We're talking about a ship that dropped me to nothing, with Sput having a good 70-75% left. IN SECONDS. This is not something that can be worked against, certainly not by the fledgling Itani Alliance.
I GUARANTEE, that the serco will be out in force tomorrow, and when they find out just how good the prom is... a vet could easily take 2-3 itani pilots in one of these things... the itani will be wasted.
EDIT: it may be that in a few days people may complain about that, but it wasn't the gausses/neuts that were the problem, the energy weps were more than dodgeable. It's the AGT on it's ideal platform, a very heavy ship that moves like a vulture.
We're not talking about a ship that is slightly better. We're talking about a ship that dropped me to nothing, with Sput having a good 70-75% left. IN SECONDS. This is not something that can be worked against, certainly not by the fledgling Itani Alliance.
I GUARANTEE, that the serco will be out in force tomorrow, and when they find out just how good the prom is... a vet could easily take 2-3 itani pilots in one of these things... the itani will be wasted.
EDIT: it may be that in a few days people may complain about that, but it wasn't the gausses/neuts that were the problem, the energy weps were more than dodgeable. It's the AGT on it's ideal platform, a very heavy ship that moves like a vulture.
shape:
We're not talking about a ship that is slightly better,we're talking about a ship that dropped me to nothing
so it is NOT the AGT but the ship. Point proven.
cheers
We're not talking about a ship that is slightly better,we're talking about a ship that dropped me to nothing
so it is NOT the AGT but the ship. Point proven.
cheers
*sputnik, are you sure that it is the agt and not the ship...
at the current rate of the balences, and what we have been seeing, i'd have to say it's not the shipS. the entire cent line proves this fact. the prom, and the centaur set this fact in stone.
these arn't small changes, these are *major* changes.
*Since im sure, in a couple of days after the agt will be nerfed, people will complain about the gauss, then the jackhammers then the... swarms...
i'll agree with you on the swarms, the worst weapon in the game. keep in mind that the prom will not be alone, that can carry large port weapons without a significant hit.
at the current rate of the balences, and what we have been seeing, i'd have to say it's not the shipS. the entire cent line proves this fact. the prom, and the centaur set this fact in stone.
these arn't small changes, these are *major* changes.
*Since im sure, in a couple of days after the agt will be nerfed, people will complain about the gauss, then the jackhammers then the... swarms...
i'll agree with you on the swarms, the worst weapon in the game. keep in mind that the prom will not be alone, that can carry large port weapons without a significant hit.
Renegade? Point NOT proven, the ship dropped me to nothing, but the only weapon that hit was the AGT.