in combination with the ship shape.

does the agt have the same problem with the centaur, the ragnarok, the wraith, the warthog, the atlas...

if so, then adjust the weapon, if not then adjust the ships. Since you made changes to the ships and not to the weapons. Please keep the changes seperate and not a mess. It is the easiest...

Imagine how hard it is if you change one and then change another to compensate... it is easier to start and try toi change the same variable untill it works as preffered...

Look, the balancing of the prom may not be finished till monday, what I'm suggesting is a hotfix, considering the urgency of the situation, and the need to keep itani pilots/and all other non-serco light fighters motivated.

i can't help but ask, but do you even play anymore renegade? i haven't seen you in VO for eons. judging from what you're saying you don't have a clue.

*does the agt have the same problem with the centaur, the ragnarok, the wraith, the warthog, the atlas...

grab a centaur, and stack it with 2 AGTs. then come back here and tell me what you think. would this be enough proof?

Let me interject here before this becomes a flamewar, lets brainstorm about how to fix this quickly. I have no intention of burning all the bridges the itani built today, for the sake of "testing".

i'd say the AGT needs to have a smaller auto aiming cone, -OR- reduce it's damage from 500, to say.. mm 400?

yeah, I'd go more in line with the autoaiming cone. Just make it something that is feasible to avoid, with some skill.

Oh, on a slightly related note, would one of the devs/"people in the know" mind posting the equation for the "Drag force" of space?

I'm curious to see quantitatively how these ships move.

I've been curious about the game physics since I started. I'd love to see the equasion as well.

No I don't play anymore, because I moved to france and have no chance to hop on the internet to play games, since im on the university internetconnection.

That is actually the only reason why I have postulated why I want to hear from other people (between us 2) the effect of the agt on the ships that did not get altered. Meaning the centaur got altered, and so did the prom. And when I bring up the point of the other ships, the only identication you give me is the effect the agt has on the centaur, a ship that got majorly changed in this exact same update. Lets wait with changing another variable untill all ships have been changed and considered to be somewhat balanced. ONLY then start changing another variable, namely a weapon. To many nerfings in the past have happened solely because people were unhappy and vocal because of the change of one or more of the changes to one variable and then nerfing another. Effectively reducing the usuability of this other variable (in this case the weapon).

My point still stands as long as the only problem you see are in th eprom and the centaur, then th eproblem is not the weapon but the 2 changed ships. And these ships need to be adjusted slightly, or waited untill the warthog and smaller ships have been altered and then adjust other variables like the weapons.

This is in my eyes common sense and not jumping the bullet. What happens after each update and on which I even sometimes made an offense.

Nothing more nothing less.

cheers

Look, we understand that the issue is the rebalancing of the prom. That's OBVIOUS, and that balancing will not be done till monday, so we're brainstorming about what CAN be done in the meantime. A HOTFIX, please argue with that, not that the prom is unfinished.

Nya, the Cent WAS broken when I had it as a ship, that was what Apex's forum post was all about. And honestly quit insulting the players here, its rude and unbecoming.

Yes, the prom has 21 m length, but its armor lets it take quite a beating/IT CAN DODGE, and an AGT lets it kill small pilots quickly, between the 2 of these, I would imagine a Mediocre Prom pilot taking on 2-3 mediocre fighter pilots quite easily.

3 of what kind of Cent? I can take an Orion vs several pilots too. The dodging is so good that you can maneuver your opponents where you want them. And since you have yet to defeat my Orion, you're really not one to talk.

And if it takes 2 itani pilots to defeat 1 serco pilot, there's a serious issue, being the numbers. since Proms guarding proms would then become very strong.

The reason why I say that a prom pilot should be able to take on multiple pilots is that if a Prom runs Flares+AGT, it can effectively multitask to an insane level. It Also means it can finish off players in vults/cents quickly enough that it doesn't have to worry about its blind spot for too long. SPutnik ran a guantlet, without repairing, of Me, followed by Holden, Followed by Aon, without dropping below 40%

The Prom was very good as a support ship before the balance, now I fear a prom in a multifight.

why bother with hotfixes that might make it even harder to change the game later and take time away from the devs in fixing the game in its whole. Hotfixes only hinder further improvement. Now if the next fix was 2 months later, then I would have agreed that a hotfix might be welcome. But you know for sure that the game will be adjusted and maybe fixed monday (meaning tuesday morning for us europeans). This is 3 days. im sure you can live with the prom being uber for 3 days. Serco has lived with the valk being uber for more then 6 months.

So please dont make me ashamed of being an itani in heart and kidney, since the only things I hear is whining as soon as they do not get their way or not get dealt the best hand (in temrs of poker).

PS: in stead of changing the AGT I would change the armor(although this is preliminary), since that is a variable of the altered ship and not another entirely different variable.

PPS: shape a prom was meant to be the uber (or at least a very good defensive tool). At least that is my mind. Wasn't it so that it were only a couple of proms that took on a whole armada of valks or ibgs but lost barely... (sorry to long ago that I read the backgroundstory)

cheers

Renegade, this isn't a "Losing barely situation". THIS ISN'T WHINING, this is criticism. And if you aren't going to be open to it, then I don't really want to discuss it with you anymore, especially since you haven't fought these. You have no idea how much of a problem it is. And just telling the itani to tough it on the biggest day of CTC is moronical at best.

Hurray for the Devs !

I'm Chao, and I fully endorse this update.

(First of all, it may be that you were testing those, but I HAVE beaten your Orion with a mk III vult with gausses so don't complain, you're a very good pilot and I enjoy flying with you and against you, but if you want to turn this into a pissing contest, fine by me)

If the Small ships are supposed to be hard to hit, then they should be hard to hit. But they're not. the AGT hits them easily.

The way you would dodge an AGT in the past was to outturn the ship,
but now the ship can catch up. Which means bye bye small ship.

No. I have beaten it, as has Holden, and a number of others. I also beat it with a corvus maud with rails. Although I have also lost several times against it, but this is really not the point.

This has nothing to do with the issue. So if you don't have something constructive, and you are done second-guessing my observation, then can we get back on topic?

shape the itani won because they outnumbered the serco with 10 - 1. And used their special shieldingpowers. I do not see that many itani on at all. Nor do I see the shieldingpowers in for the itani.

The way how you outdodged an agt was to stay at 200 - 300m and kick the proms ass. Thats how I did it in the past. At >150m the agt is very inaccurate. At <150 it tears any ships hull, as it is supposed to do. And what did not happen as much in the past since agts where ineffective at any range.

Anyway, the serco toughened it out also on so many ctc days now it is just itanis turn. And I was just mesmerized that when this happened I see 1 person getting his pants all fired up...

But if you want a quick fix, then let this ctc round not count and give both sides neuts3. That would in my mind be a quick fix. Or maybe even better take (neuts3) away immediately for this ctc round and the result not count for the neuts3 reward. But only for the honour. I have the idea that that would be looked upon as fair untill monday. And then a new evaluation can be done.

eh, well, n3's taken away would only help serco, since they can stockpile and itani can't. This has been the scenario for a long while now. Since itani stockpiles ran out. Itani have been strongly disadvantaged in the weapons area.

BACK on to the subject at hand.

i was talking to lin as i tried to make her dance with me because our ship was fixed.. i followed her to initros to see her check out the prom, and she goes "hmm mk2 has 40cu good trading ship"

my moulth dropped WIDE open.

--

and i mean wide open!

infact i am still somewhat paralyzed, give me a few moments so i don't have to continue typing out what my brain is saying..

okay. there is one thing that proms need fixing. their cargo limits. i reckon 40cu is a'bit over the edge for a prom with 650 thrust. also i think the skycommand with it's 680 thrust, and 26cu is a'bit overboard aswell.

here are my suggestions:

mk1: 8cu
mk2: 16cu
mk3: 8cu
sky: 4cu

with it's current cargo the prom is very close to Everything-Can-Do ship. granted it's size is going to suck in 2v1 ect fights, but other than that it's pretty close.

i beleive if the cargo were cut down considurably, then things would even out more.

we finally have our answer to the valkyire, but lets not give it an insaine advantage (cargo).

I said take neuts 3 out immediately.

Besides, if you had won this one, the stockpile would still have existed. The only difference is that you could stockpile. But that would be unfair to the effort the serco did to be able to stockpile it (by actually taking it away undeserved becaus eof a possible unbalancedness).

But what my change in fact does, is making the serco unable to stockpile fuirther for 1 week(what they aren't doing anyway since they are still in the lead) and let not a possible unbalanced ship make it impossible to show teamwork with the itani. Beside it just makes the reward really dependable on actual ctc skill in stead of partial dependency of a ship. It gives the itani 1 week to get their act together and prove that they were in fact able to turn up a fist to the allruling serco. (It has to be boring to them to constantly win the ctc :D).

Who knows maybe it is the start of a real competition. In stead of a monotoneous cycle.

cheers

PS: I do not consider 40 as being over the top for a heavy ship that is supposed to be a trader. Maybe we will see pirates chose the prom now :D, in stead of the marauder. But it all depends on how decent the centaur is at fending off people. But I do think a small adjustment to weight need to be made. we might cut down the thrust to 550 - 600. as a starters and see then. Like I said, change with the values of the ship and compare them to the other ships intention. But I'm not the best person for the job, since I do not have access to actually flying a prom. However, some of the other people do, and they might have better ways at making the prom a cool ship but not all powerfull by adjusting part of the ship and not something else. But if you cut down the cargo to 16 then it is not a heavy trader anymore in my eyes (it has to be near to the cargo of an atlas at least)