Forums » Suggestions
Well i agreed with wash because , players nowadays chooses to manu goliath over dent because its fast , only 200 less cargo space 3 turret ports and 1/4 build.
It should be better then xc but must be alot weaker then dent,
I also suggest instead of nerfing goliath improve ttm
I suggest To change cargo space of dent to 1200
So goli can be 600 cu with 3 turrets , with one small port ,
Dent can be 1200 cu with 6 turrets , with one large port ( grid power must be more then goliath )
And capella can be 2000 cu with 12 turrets ports without large/small ports.
It should be better then xc but must be alot weaker then dent,
I also suggest instead of nerfing goliath improve ttm
I suggest To change cargo space of dent to 1200
So goli can be 600 cu with 3 turrets , with one small port ,
Dent can be 1200 cu with 6 turrets , with one large port ( grid power must be more then goliath )
And capella can be 2000 cu with 12 turrets ports without large/small ports.
They are so easy to kill, I don't see what the problem is. Whats the problem again tightpants?
"Dent can be 1200 cu with 6 turrets , with one large port ( grid power must be more then goliath )"
The TTM is a moderately defended "light frigate" or whatever it's labeled as now. Giving it 6 turrets and 1200 cu would just make it overly powerful and bring us back to if turrets used grid then the TTM would become obsolete. I doubt it would be useful in a fight like that. Nor do I believe buffing either would changed anything since the dent has a 800+ cargo space and 250k armor more then it. Goliath is indeed weak, and I can live with my goli being so as it's speed advantage is used the way it was meant to be. VO is a sandbox, I'm sure if the TTM tried intercepting a goli in a 5k range the Goli would slowly start to drift in the dents path. I feel this thread is just because capships users are learning to use the goli to it's max potential as a combat ship instead of a trade vessel
The TTM is a moderately defended "light frigate" or whatever it's labeled as now. Giving it 6 turrets and 1200 cu would just make it overly powerful and bring us back to if turrets used grid then the TTM would become obsolete. I doubt it would be useful in a fight like that. Nor do I believe buffing either would changed anything since the dent has a 800+ cargo space and 250k armor more then it. Goliath is indeed weak, and I can live with my goli being so as it's speed advantage is used the way it was meant to be. VO is a sandbox, I'm sure if the TTM tried intercepting a goli in a 5k range the Goli would slowly start to drift in the dents path. I feel this thread is just because capships users are learning to use the goli to it's max potential as a combat ship instead of a trade vessel
Oh looks like you got a Problem with both IL , you dont want Goliath to get nerfed and Dont want trident to get improved either , your not the only Guy here who is flying capship , or spent months to manu it , alot other peoples have done that too.
Lmao only 200 less cu then dent , and 1 less turret then dent and only 1/4th build parts is not okay ,
And there's not much difference in sheields i'll say A ragnarok with chaos/gem can deshield both in one run , once deshielded goliath players run fast and trident is slower.
Inc needs to nerf goliath , or improve trident.
And there's not much difference in sheields i'll say A ragnarok with chaos/gem can deshield both in one run , once deshielded goliath players run fast and trident is slower.
Inc needs to nerf goliath , or improve trident.
No, I'm defending the ship that took a year to be manu'd. Only people crying for the goli to be nerfed is dent users. Seems to me I'm the only one arguing and defending that both capships are balanced and that nothing needs to be changed.
It takes two stacked gem/chaos to deshield a goli. And a full stack for a dent, dent is also 250k+ compared to the low armor of the goli. I'd say that the ability to deshield both depends on the player shooting and the player piloting. When you manu a dent your going for heavier, larger and stronger. Going for a Goli is for faster, weaker and less weaponry. I have yet to see anyone nay say what I'm saying other then falling back on things I've alrready argued on. I'll gladly accept a alternative to making a ship designed for fire power (TTM) that much more overpowered or taking a already weak (goli) and making it weaker. Either way I see both as balanced and that it's more of skill thing that needs to be improved on the players part to successfully defend goli/dent. It's not the capships fault or start reasoning
I has dent/goli both and pretty much sure so does wash/yt and others has it too :p
I can say the same only goliath users are arguing about it , they dont want to manufacture trident but wants all the cool features by doing just 1/4 th manu
I can say the same only goliath users are arguing about it , they dont want to manufacture trident but wants all the cool features by doing just 1/4 th manu
Only reason this suggestion exists is because certain players are outraged they cannot solo goliaths
I have removed several statements directed at individuals, rather than the suggestion at hand. Please feel free to disagree with each other, but keep it civil.
@INC do you think this is balanced and fair to those players who went the extra mile and built tridents? I may not speak for other trident pilots but I for one think it is too much.
So, first of all, I definitely value the time that people put into any big endgame project, and I don't want to de-value that, or make those people feel mistreated, or that their time was wasted (either Trident or Goliath builders).
At the same time, this is a constantly evolving game. As they say in life: "The only certainty is change". When Conflict Diamond built the first Trident, it was a hell of a lot more harrowing of a process than it is today, and the Trident that resulted at the end was far less useful than they are now.
But.. when we drastically nerfed the Trident build tree, it was based around CD's own suggestions. Those first generation Trident builders weren't bitter that later people had it easier, they saw it as an important evolution of the game to refine and improve things for everyone.
And ultimately, that's the perspective I have to embrace the most: I have to look forward, not back, and build the best overall game that I can for everyone, integrating new content as a part of that.
That "everyone" definitely includes valuing the efforts of people who put massive time into previous accomplishments, but it also means creating new content for people to work on, with different trade-offs.
What I find kind of peculiar about this whole thread, is it seems to revolve around "symbolism" rather than actual imbalance. People think that a "freighter" should not be symbolically as useful in combat. Or that X amount of effort is symbolically not "fair" to create a capital ship with Y capabilities.
I'm really not opposed to tweaking the grid structure of the Goliath. But, what troubles me is that this thread cropped up without any real complaint about an actual problem in the game.
It mostly seems like people are grumpy about.. something? Maybe recent combat successes of the Goliath, I don't really know.. and this is then being filtered through some angst about perceived inequality of effort.
We've had the Goliath in-game, in their current state, for over 1.5 years. I haven't really seen any major issues raised about it in all that time.. until now.
I do empathize with angst over perceptual inequality of effort, but.. why now, all of a sudden?
I mean, the most angst about the Goliath previously was not over nerfing it further, but rather it being nerfed too much and it not being the accidental battle-wagon that some people wanted (and the game mechanics were not ready for).
If you want me to fundamentally "fix" something in the game, you need to start by presenting me with a concrete.. problem.
And then, present the issue in a way that emphasizes how the resulting change will be the best and most balanced outcome for everyone in the game, moving forward.
So, first of all, I definitely value the time that people put into any big endgame project, and I don't want to de-value that, or make those people feel mistreated, or that their time was wasted (either Trident or Goliath builders).
At the same time, this is a constantly evolving game. As they say in life: "The only certainty is change". When Conflict Diamond built the first Trident, it was a hell of a lot more harrowing of a process than it is today, and the Trident that resulted at the end was far less useful than they are now.
But.. when we drastically nerfed the Trident build tree, it was based around CD's own suggestions. Those first generation Trident builders weren't bitter that later people had it easier, they saw it as an important evolution of the game to refine and improve things for everyone.
And ultimately, that's the perspective I have to embrace the most: I have to look forward, not back, and build the best overall game that I can for everyone, integrating new content as a part of that.
That "everyone" definitely includes valuing the efforts of people who put massive time into previous accomplishments, but it also means creating new content for people to work on, with different trade-offs.
What I find kind of peculiar about this whole thread, is it seems to revolve around "symbolism" rather than actual imbalance. People think that a "freighter" should not be symbolically as useful in combat. Or that X amount of effort is symbolically not "fair" to create a capital ship with Y capabilities.
I'm really not opposed to tweaking the grid structure of the Goliath. But, what troubles me is that this thread cropped up without any real complaint about an actual problem in the game.
It mostly seems like people are grumpy about.. something? Maybe recent combat successes of the Goliath, I don't really know.. and this is then being filtered through some angst about perceived inequality of effort.
We've had the Goliath in-game, in their current state, for over 1.5 years. I haven't really seen any major issues raised about it in all that time.. until now.
I do empathize with angst over perceptual inequality of effort, but.. why now, all of a sudden?
I mean, the most angst about the Goliath previously was not over nerfing it further, but rather it being nerfed too much and it not being the accidental battle-wagon that some people wanted (and the game mechanics were not ready for).
If you want me to fundamentally "fix" something in the game, you need to start by presenting me with a concrete.. problem.
And then, present the issue in a way that emphasizes how the resulting change will be the best and most balanced outcome for everyone in the game, moving forward.
Concrete problem:
Capswarm Buff made the Goli uber combat effective. Now that the turret exploits are nerfed we can verify that there is still an issue. High Damage combined with high speed and maneuverability. It is a swarm hound in capship clothing now.
54k with 3 turrets per 10 seconds. The dent isn't meant to dodge or out maneuver in coming missles. The goli can turbo in swarm range fire and turbo out of range from the dent at will.
As I stated in my last reply the only possible counter to it is 4 full blown rail guns firing while it bops in and out of capswarm range. Not everyone has the determination I have to have 4 gunner accounts to deal with the situation.
If it's less hassle bump the dent shields to 50k as an alternative.
Capswarm Buff made the Goli uber combat effective. Now that the turret exploits are nerfed we can verify that there is still an issue. High Damage combined with high speed and maneuverability. It is a swarm hound in capship clothing now.
54k with 3 turrets per 10 seconds. The dent isn't meant to dodge or out maneuver in coming missles. The goli can turbo in swarm range fire and turbo out of range from the dent at will.
As I stated in my last reply the only possible counter to it is 4 full blown rail guns firing while it bops in and out of capswarm range. Not everyone has the determination I have to have 4 gunner accounts to deal with the situation.
If it's less hassle bump the dent shields to 50k as an alternative.
Yes incarnate. It's because of recent goliath combat success. As it is being used to the full extent of the abilities it was given. This is more of a grumpy thing, but I'll gladly take a 2k grid. As I can get full charge faster then and go to places far quicker. Taking the grid down is more of a help then it is nerfing it, for some reason a "exploit" I didn't even know I was using while manually manning turrets. Now that it was fixed It seems the Goliath is now "overpowered"
Incarnate you're right , suddenly Iron Lord managed to kill wash trident somehow & then angry wash started opening various threads about nerfing the goliath grid power etc.
Here's my -1 to this suggestion.
Here's my -1 to this suggestion.
Hold on smart shop. We have been making suggestions about tweaking the goliath and trident for months now. Since way before Iron Lord had a goliath.
May 2018: Drop the Goliath's Turbo Thrust to 10,000 N nerf
April 2018: Reduce Capship Cruise and Turbo Speeds nerf
April 2018: Goliath Power Cell / Spec Change nerf
December 2017: Buff Goliath shields buff
December 2016: Buff the Golinerf buff
December 2016: Trident Type M Cargo Buff/Goliath cargo Reduction buff/nerf
December 2016: Goliath - LTS reports. Discussion thread (Wash makes first mention of reduced grid here)
November 2016: Rename the Trident heavy cell to Capital Heavy cell... Modification
And many more threads. Recently there has been a lot more goliaths manufactured, so they are becoming far more common in the past month than in the in previous 1.5 years. This has allowed all parties involved to experience more cap ship to cap ship combat. That is the reason for the increase in threads. Frankly, this debate is a good thing.
I've said this before, I'll say it again: making turrets destructible solves a lot of issues. But Incarnate has stated in the past that destructible turrets is a complex issue to implement. So i accept that and move on.
Wash and I's opinions about this differ a bit. He wants to nerf the grid, but I think drastically reducing the goliaths turbo thrust is the way to go. It only has one engine, so give it half the thrust. Currently the trident, with two engines, has 10kN of thrust and 20kN of turbo thrust. The goliath with one engine has 15 kN of thrust and 18kN of turbo thrust.
Trident's stats:
Goliath's stats:
Reducing the Goliath's thrust will not reduce its mass advantage. It will always be more nimble than the trident.
My personal thoughts on grid, is that it is a function of the powercell, and not the engine. So changes to the grid should be addressed via new power cells, rather than modification to the Goliath.
The problem is not the Goli or the trident but the weapons you can equip are based on smaller ship game play dynamics. A Goli or trident are really just glorified ECs. Wash probably lost his dent to a Goli and a persistent pilot, much like he lost an XC to kbireta’s swarm hound.
As far as I’m concerned this is misplaced anger. Focus on real issues like turret weapons, trident interface, trident gameplay etc.
As far as I’m concerned this is misplaced anger. Focus on real issues like turret weapons, trident interface, trident gameplay etc.
Based on those stats the armor of a dent is FOUR HUNDRED THOUSAND MORE then a goli? Why are dent users complaining?? Holy sh** that's crazy. It's entirely possible to intercept and run away from a Goli btw. Dents weren't made for chasing and killing golis, so ya. I feel this suggestion thread has had all that can be said said. Not speaking for anyone but me personally feel that the topic at hand has been discussed very thoroughly
The amount of armor is not crazy. A trident require 8 EHAs and a Goliath only requires 2. It is a massive undertaking compared to a Goliath. Of course its going to have more armor. The real question you should be asking, is why the trident only has 200cu more cargo space. And why does it have only 1000000 armor?
Well I can agree about that. If it takes that many ehas the armor should be more. But not ovely more so. A dent is hard enough to kill, a dent with 2mil ish or so armor is impossible.
"As I stated in my last reply the only possible counter to it is 4 full blown rail guns firing while it bops in and out of capswarm range."
I am unconvinced that this is the only possible counter. It seems to me that two other possible counters include undocking in a Rag to murder the Goliath, and equipping a shield turret and using it to intercept the missiles.
I am unconvinced that this is the only possible counter. It seems to me that two other possible counters include undocking in a Rag to murder the Goliath, and equipping a shield turret and using it to intercept the missiles.