It is labeled as a Light Freighter, how does that justify the same exact grid power as a trident when its a quarter of the build? Just because it has slightly less shields and 1 less turret? It accelerates like a greyhound compared to a dent that should be its only advantage, running away.

Being able to run and fire Capitol class turrets i.e. Capswarms, Cap Rails, Cap Gauss is way to much. It's a quarter of the build so it should be a quarter of the grid, that would be balanced.

+1

the Goliath grid should not be more than half of the Trident one.

Yes, lets make the easiest-to-kill capship, easier to kill!

Nobody would bother building it if they nerfed it. It will already go down against one Ragnarok and (any other fighter) or even a pair of warthogs. Why go through all of that grind just to get a 600cu Behemoth?

*900cu with bugs.

It should trade some combat capabilities for more defences. 20% more shield and a fair reduction in grid. It should be able to equip the standard capgauss but no more than a couple capswarms or a single rail. The numbers are random though.

I'd rather see a lot more anti-capship weaponry than nerf existing ships. Wormhole jump disruptors for e.g.

First a dent will also go down vs a single rag or a pair of greyhounds for that matter, so that argument is irrelevant.

Second, Golis are a quarter of the build but yet have the same grid as a dent. That pretty much is a slap in the face to those people who did the grind to build a trident, for what an extra 200cu, a little more shield and 250k extra armor? Hardly worth it.

The grid power is what makes any ship formidable. A light freighter should not have the same grid as a frigate plain and simple on top of the fact it can out accelerate trident. It's advantage is speed, it should not have the ability to loadout the same turrets as a trident as well.

You guys wanted an easier build ship, you got it. It should not have the same grid as a dent.

Agrees With wash :p

+1000

Instead of nerfing the goliath why not improving the trident?

Because Death that then leads to a whole other set of things that are then skewed. Reducing the Goliath Grid power is the logical solution to bring balance back to the force.

Only people who want to see a Goli grid reduction are dent users, no point in reducing a Goli as it is already super weak compared to anything else. ATLEAST a dent doesn't get deshielded by 2 tycorps or a single hornet using chainfire. I've tested it, two chaos/gems fired and stacked together can deshield a dent. You make dents sound weak compared to a goli "250k armor" is a lot compared to the weak armor of a goli. If anything I see turret bots as the problem since it allows YOU wash to shoot four caprails in one direction.

"Only people who want to see a Goli grid reduction are dent users"

Correct. As we did a lot more building and hauling and grinding only to have Goli owners do a quarter of the build and get the same grid. That is not balanced. It is a quarter of the build it should be a quarter of the grid. I have said that since day 1 and will continue to say it until it is adjusted or balanced in some way.

"no point in reducing a Goli as it is already super weak compared to anything else"

The Goli is a freighter by definition, read the description. It is a freighter with shields and turrets and much higher acceleration. It is not meant to sit in combat situations. It is designed to move more cargo than an XC with the benefit of shields and be able to out accelerate other capships that would do it harm.

The "it's already weak" argument is pointless. It is better than an XC or Regular Moth.

In what reality or Science Fiction has a freighter ever been able to bring the same weapons to bare as a military class ship.

"You make dents sound weak compared to a goli "

No I'm making the point that for a quarter of the build you are already getting more than a quarter of the benefits in Shield, Armor, Turret count, cargo space and Grid.

The Golis advantage is acceleration and maneuverability. If you would like to sacrifice those to keep the grid make a separate suggestion for that and I will +1 it.

"If anything I see turret bots as the problem since it allows YOU wash to shoot four caprails in one direction."

That has no bearing on this suggestion. But as a rebuttal let me say that turrets are designed to be used with gunners manning them, which is exactly how I am using them. Take a moment and think how much deadlier it would be if I had actual people in those turrets able to track targets rather then just being limited to what is directly in front of me.

If you are unhappy with gunners being able to man turrets perhaps make a suggestion to have that feature removed.

You don't need any gems to deshield a dent. Just 2 chaos swarm launchers is enough.

+1 one quarter the grid seems right.

+1

Plenty of situations where ive seen freighter class ships able to equip military class weapons

At other times in the past I've repudiated my fanciful naming of different ships. I called the Trident a "light frigate" and was lambasted for that. I also called the Goliath a "freighter" and now that seems to be the center of a new controversy. The names were intended to inject a bit of story into the world, but not to limit the usage of the vessels to specific use-cases.

The design of this game, and the design of those ships, has always been to allow a lot of flexibility of potential usage-case, and let players "make the ship their own". This goes all the way back to the origins of our "port" system, and the varied types of loadouts one can configure on different ships.

I would say that kind of flexibility is one of the game's biggest assets. It presents challenges, sure, but it keeps things from being distilled down into obvious "roles" that you Must Use, and instead creates a lot of opportunity for tinkering and player discovery.. especially as more types of addons and gameplay situations are released.

So, seriously, let's take the whole "it says it's a freighter!" argument out of the discussion.

Even if that was a meaningful part of the discussion, we could still point to Syrians welding soviet anti-aircraft cannons onto Toyota pickup trucks, or people who are converting container ships into mega-yachts, or the fact that the US Navy's "most stealthy warship" may actually be a borrowed Maersk cargo vessel (modified for SOCOM deployment).

So, let's leave all the reality-arguing out of it and just ask:

Is the Goliath bad for the game with the current grid settings?

Then explain exactly Why (or why-not), and cite examples.

Don't argue what kind of role "people should be using it for", again.. everything in VO can be used to do everything. Just focus on what is out of balance, and why.

The Goli has been in this form for some time, and while I'm sure Wash (and/or others) may have mentioned this issue in the past.. it's not exactly been a constant resounding hotbed of Suggestions activity. So, I'm curious what's happened recently that has people more upset about it. Tactical efficiency resulting in more destroyed Tridents? Or what?

fair enough we can throw all those arguments out.

Let's just look at the manu aspect.

-- The goliath is roughly 1/4 the build of a trident. so way less work
-- Now making the whole thing 1/4 of the specs I agree would make it useless
-- It should have decent cargo which I would argue is a bit much but ok
-- It out accelerates a dent with a single engine. I would argue this could be nerfed instead of the grid
-- the Grid matches a dent. This I think is a bit too much.

The down sides to a Goli: lighter shields and less armor. Now both of those items are a fair trade off for the speed and maneuverability it has.

The Grid allows it to load out 3 of the new higher damage capswarms turrets, which combined with its acceleration and maneuverability means it can either stay well in fornt of a dent dropping massive amounts of swarm damage (I have been able to counter this somewhat using multiple accounts and caprails but realistically yo ushouldn't have to do that to have a chance against it) or they can accelerate and maneuver in and out of capswarm range to lands multiple hits on the slower trident and then get back out of range of anything but caprails.

So yes it does have a huge tactical advantage over the trident in regards to combat based on grid and speed.

@INC do you think this is balanced and fair to those players who went the extra mile and built tridents? I may not speak for other trident pilots but I for one think it is too much.

This is the capship equivalent of swarm hounds except the ability of the target to dodge is much much lower.

Counter argument. The Goli is smaller then a dent, so it should be able to out accelerate a dent (I believe fairly larger then a Goli) quite easily in terms of speed and movement. As far as my knowledge goes something along the lines of a dent (extra cu,heavier, more turrets, a lot more armor and shields) is more along the lines of a trade vessel. If a light gun boat was put beside a normal gun boat. The heavier one much bulkier of course and layered four times over compared to a light gun boat. Should the heavy one be able to outrun the light ship? Something with next to no armor and shields in my opinion should be allowed it's speed and grid. As I consider one engine much more powerful when used for something lighter. The cargo is good where it is, since who would build a goli if it was just a shielded xc with 200 more cargo room? And plus the goliath has always been the more combative one over the dent.

I think the best argument is that the Goli should be about 1/4 to 1/3 the buffness of a Dent if only because it's build requirements. I don't mind it being faster, but that speed should come at a cost. If the Goli pilot decides to abscond from an encounter, let him have the advantage of speed. If he wants to stay and duke it out, the power grid should go to the weapons.

I think nerfing the grid (maybe not by the full two-thirds) will do this nicely.

Or, make it so the grid can power weapons and engine, but at the sacrifice of shield strength. This would be complicated though, but more realistic. Same for the Dent, but obviously to a lesser degree since it's expected to be a more hardy ship.

The single best nerf I can think of other than grid would be to allow the turrets to be disabled. Perhaps as the grid is taxed, the turrets begin to go down one-by-one.

Also, no. As far as I know wash is the only one who has lost a dent t to goliath, there have been no more destroyed dents for a long tone because of a golistrade tactical efficiency. But plenty of golis have died