Forums » Suggestions
you can always tell the n00bs by who ignores me when I post.
Piss.
Piss.
I shouldn't even be replying here because I have no idea about Sunflares, or any flares or PvP for that matter... I don't do PvP.
Now that I got that out of the way I don't think an extremely powerful weapons platform should be nerfed, at least not in terms of it's capabilities. Why does every nation in the world (except Jamaica of course) want to have nuclear weapons?? Because in the real world having the biggest stick means you are respected and feared.
My suggestion is that much as in real life the cost of the best weapon should match its capability. And I think this comes back to the economy. If everyone is buying the Sunflare, it's price should skyrocket. Even up to a point where it becomes financially crippling to die 10 times with a dual-flare setup. Also, a powerful weapon like that should be scarce, not readily available. You can't just walk into any gun shop and buy a Remington 700 model sniper rifle.
That would mean that only the best pilots would even try and use them, and that would diversify the weapons layout a lot.
.... Flame Away .....
Now that I got that out of the way I don't think an extremely powerful weapons platform should be nerfed, at least not in terms of it's capabilities. Why does every nation in the world (except Jamaica of course) want to have nuclear weapons?? Because in the real world having the biggest stick means you are respected and feared.
My suggestion is that much as in real life the cost of the best weapon should match its capability. And I think this comes back to the economy. If everyone is buying the Sunflare, it's price should skyrocket. Even up to a point where it becomes financially crippling to die 10 times with a dual-flare setup. Also, a powerful weapon like that should be scarce, not readily available. You can't just walk into any gun shop and buy a Remington 700 model sniper rifle.
That would mean that only the best pilots would even try and use them, and that would diversify the weapons layout a lot.
.... Flame Away .....
Yes, TRS, because if a vult cannot best a valk in a 1v1 duel without the valk having the ability to disengage... our whole combat system must be broken.
You can't just walk into any gun shop and buy a Remington 700 model sniper rifle.
Um, yes you can. The 700, even the more 'tacti-cool' police models, are just regular ole bolt action rifles. You can, state depending, get them at Walmart. If I have $10,000 or so to blow, I can even walk into most gun stores and walk out a short time later with a Barrett .50 BMG sniper rifle. Ammo cost is a bitch, though.
But your misunderstanding of firearms notwithstanding, the point is good. I'd be all for more advanced weapons being limited to certain high-conflict barracks stations in GR/Deneb and Odia M14 stations. This would force more people to either engage in the Serco/Itani conflict for their combat and/or visit the heart of gray to haul weapons.
You can't just walk into any gun shop and buy a Remington 700 model sniper rifle.
Um, yes you can. The 700, even the more 'tacti-cool' police models, are just regular ole bolt action rifles. You can, state depending, get them at Walmart. If I have $10,000 or so to blow, I can even walk into most gun stores and walk out a short time later with a Barrett .50 BMG sniper rifle. Ammo cost is a bitch, though.
But your misunderstanding of firearms notwithstanding, the point is good. I'd be all for more advanced weapons being limited to certain high-conflict barracks stations in GR/Deneb and Odia M14 stations. This would force more people to either engage in the Serco/Itani conflict for their combat and/or visit the heart of gray to haul weapons.
Well, we could always make them a craftable-only item...
/me runs and hides in a cave
/me runs and hides in a cave
Excellent idea! Here's a new list of 'craftable only' items/ships that will ensure while lots of people use the same rig for most of their regular play activities, they'll all be using a different same rig than they do now. And making them change their style of play to something we think is better for us is what really matters, no?
Sunflares, AAPs, N2s, ravens, sparrows, megaposis, AGT, jackhammers, chaos swarms, ADV rails, Gauss II, Gauss III, SCPs, X1s, Grayhounds, Behemoth XC.
Did I miss anything useful?
Sunflares, AAPs, N2s, ravens, sparrows, megaposis, AGT, jackhammers, chaos swarms, ADV rails, Gauss II, Gauss III, SCPs, X1s, Grayhounds, Behemoth XC.
Did I miss anything useful?
Funny how sparrows ended up on that list. I hardly ever see anyone else using them...
Yes, TRS, because if a vult cannot best a valk in a 1v1 duel without the valk having the ability to disengage... our whole combat system must be broken.
What? where did you get that idea from? The combat system is not broken, It's centred around dual-flare valkryies. I've always believed fleeing is an important mechanic. The point I'm making is it leaves the vulture pilot feeling like he should be flying a valkryie with dual flares if he wants to actually get the kill in the duel and not chasing afterwards.
Further to that, he has a disadvantage chasing down the valk because he has to deal with energy draining his turbo whereas if he was in a valk he can chase with his flares.
It's not that its broken, but it is incentivizing use of the dual flare valk instead of vultures, energy weapons and other setups for a large number (I would say most) players. I am advocating we either introduce other options to make more competitive set-ups that don't rely on the use of a valkryie and flares, or that we nerf dual flares in such a way that other setups become competitive.
Now I know the nerf-stick is taboo and seems to cause immense rage from people like Dr. Lector, but nerfing for balance is much more developmentally simple than adding new features in to create balance. Given that our devs are overworked, I understand why it has been proposed in the first place as the most hopeful manner to achieve combat diversity.
Look, maybe the answer to this is not to nerf flares, or to buff iceflares and starflares. Maybe the answer is to add a little bit more speed to energy blasters or some other kind of adjustment. I'd certainly like to hear suggestions, I'm sure Incarnate would as well.
Suggestions, Dr. Lector, not shooting down other people's suggestions. Devs are quite capable of shooting down suggestions themselves.
What? where did you get that idea from? The combat system is not broken, It's centred around dual-flare valkryies. I've always believed fleeing is an important mechanic. The point I'm making is it leaves the vulture pilot feeling like he should be flying a valkryie with dual flares if he wants to actually get the kill in the duel and not chasing afterwards.
Further to that, he has a disadvantage chasing down the valk because he has to deal with energy draining his turbo whereas if he was in a valk he can chase with his flares.
It's not that its broken, but it is incentivizing use of the dual flare valk instead of vultures, energy weapons and other setups for a large number (I would say most) players. I am advocating we either introduce other options to make more competitive set-ups that don't rely on the use of a valkryie and flares, or that we nerf dual flares in such a way that other setups become competitive.
Now I know the nerf-stick is taboo and seems to cause immense rage from people like Dr. Lector, but nerfing for balance is much more developmentally simple than adding new features in to create balance. Given that our devs are overworked, I understand why it has been proposed in the first place as the most hopeful manner to achieve combat diversity.
Look, maybe the answer to this is not to nerf flares, or to buff iceflares and starflares. Maybe the answer is to add a little bit more speed to energy blasters or some other kind of adjustment. I'd certainly like to hear suggestions, I'm sure Incarnate would as well.
Suggestions, Dr. Lector, not shooting down other people's suggestions. Devs are quite capable of shooting down suggestions themselves.
Your beef seems to be with the Valkyrie rather than sunflares in general, or you would have complained about MGCs and dual-flare vultures and tri-flare marauders. I notice this a lot when people make a suggestion for change in any type of game, their suggestion mis-represents what their actual problem is.
As a defender of the status quo I need not make suggestions, you idiot. Those advocating change bear the burden of justifying it as a net good and of showing their proposed approach is the best way to achieve the change.
The basic question with any "let's nerf to encourage more diversity" suggestion is this: will you actually cause diversity, or will you either (1) cause no change except for making a top-end weapon less useful but still incredibly common, or (2) cause so much change that a different rig becomes perceived as "best" and therefore incredibly common.
The odds of a nerfing missing (1) and (2) and landing squarely in the middle are, I submit, fucking miniscule. Any possible gain is most assuredly not worth the trouble of implementing it plus the much more possible problems caused.
So, as I've been saying, either only fight people flying rigs that make your little heart go pitter pat, or, learn to deal with flares like a truly good pilot. But regardless of which you choose, shut the fuck up and play the game rather than whining for yet another tweak.
The basic question with any "let's nerf to encourage more diversity" suggestion is this: will you actually cause diversity, or will you either (1) cause no change except for making a top-end weapon less useful but still incredibly common, or (2) cause so much change that a different rig becomes perceived as "best" and therefore incredibly common.
The odds of a nerfing missing (1) and (2) and landing squarely in the middle are, I submit, fucking miniscule. Any possible gain is most assuredly not worth the trouble of implementing it plus the much more possible problems caused.
So, as I've been saying, either only fight people flying rigs that make your little heart go pitter pat, or, learn to deal with flares like a truly good pilot. But regardless of which you choose, shut the fuck up and play the game rather than whining for yet another tweak.
Lecter, you know damned well that logic has no place on VO's forums.
You're not here to play devils advocate, you're here to insult people and bash everyone's suggestions calling THEM newbs and occasionally providing a reason. Here are some of your arguments against the changes peytros and I have proposed:
1. Hes a noob
2. Hes a rusty vet
3. I'm retarded
4. I'm a noob
5. I've barely learned how fly
6. I cannot cope with facts
7. I cannot cope with flares
8. Peytros has a sensitive ego and THATS why he wants to nerf flares
9. Sunflares have been nerfed twice now
10. You have a solid argument underneath all of that
Well, as to number 10, if you do, nobody can actually see it through all the rubbish.
Oh, and no kidding those are the two possible outcomes, but you aren't even arguing about the degree to which a nerf might promote diversity, you're flat out denying a change could have any benefits at all. Also you're ignoring half of my argument completely which is that nothing needs to be done to sunflares per se, but something should be done to encourage uses of many different weapon types rather than just dual sunflare be wildly more popular than most other configurations.
If you don't think that there's a problem, quit posting, you've made your point.
If you think you have a way to alleviate the concerns of those who share my view, then post it.
If you don't think anybody does share my view, and just wish to post more insults, locate your nearest bar of soap, insert it into your mouth and masticate thoroughly.
@Slime I have already explained that I think the valkryie supremacy thing is a related issue. But I still think despite that there should be some changes to the system.
1. Hes a noob
2. Hes a rusty vet
3. I'm retarded
4. I'm a noob
5. I've barely learned how fly
6. I cannot cope with facts
7. I cannot cope with flares
8. Peytros has a sensitive ego and THATS why he wants to nerf flares
9. Sunflares have been nerfed twice now
10. You have a solid argument underneath all of that
Well, as to number 10, if you do, nobody can actually see it through all the rubbish.
Oh, and no kidding those are the two possible outcomes, but you aren't even arguing about the degree to which a nerf might promote diversity, you're flat out denying a change could have any benefits at all. Also you're ignoring half of my argument completely which is that nothing needs to be done to sunflares per se, but something should be done to encourage uses of many different weapon types rather than just dual sunflare be wildly more popular than most other configurations.
If you don't think that there's a problem, quit posting, you've made your point.
If you think you have a way to alleviate the concerns of those who share my view, then post it.
If you don't think anybody does share my view, and just wish to post more insults, locate your nearest bar of soap, insert it into your mouth and masticate thoroughly.
@Slime I have already explained that I think the valkryie supremacy thing is a related issue. But I still think despite that there should be some changes to the system.
Pretty sure it's just you not seeing through the "rubbish."
You know a thread's OP is off on a circlejerk when it puts me on the same side of an argument as tarenty.
Interesting thought, though: if we follow TRS down the allegedly desirable path of diverse combat rigs such that vults and valks are roughly equally desirable for different reasons, don't we need to gut the license system as it exists now? Currently, while there's a big difference between a vult mk I and a SVG/CV, and between a plain vanilla valk and an X-1, it's very much intended that the valk is a much better combat ship than a vulture. The valk is the pride of the Itani military, has high level and faction requirements, costs significantly more than even the SVG/CV (we won't count the pricey paintjob anniversary editions I love so much), and is intended to be, objectively speaking, a much more dangerous ship.
You get the point; but TRS is seriously whining because (in his example) in a standup 1v1 it's harder for a vulture to win and harder for a vulture to catch a fleeing and damaged opponent. The reason this isn't a problem is because this is VO: the RPG, not VO: the dueling club. Do we engage in lots of consensual PvP for fun? Yes, because there's pissall else to do around here usually. Should we try to balance our combat model to insure that an SVG with AAPs and a dual sun/AAP X-1 are roughly equal in all aspects of combat? Fuck no. If you want your opponent to bring something fun to a duel, ASK. Otherwise, we need to dispense with this idea of some rigs being better -- and harder to get -- than others. If they're all desirable and everything's diverse, why the requirement differences?
Now, more basically, if you want "combat diversity" when people are fighting because they're trying to advance an objective, you're missing the point. Whether it is the best way for you to kill your opponent, not whether your opponent will be excited by the diversity of your rig, is what everyone will choose from...and ships/weapons here are tiered, so expect to see a lot of the same high-end stuff if you're constantly doing the same type of combat.
Which is not to say everyone will show up in a flare-laden X-1 all of the time...that just happens to be the best ship for what we all spend most of our time doing. Zooming around a lot of space littered with a lot of easily accessible ammo dumps, hoping to find some of the few available people to blast in 1v1s or small furballs, and avoiding death and mocking on 100 by winning. Show up to large Deneb battles and tell me how many flare valks you see. During the Deneb run, when valks were allowed and popular, racers brought weapons -- but never sunflares. SCAR was engaging a group of prom jocks? No valks, even though we all had them and pirated in them constantly. MGCs and SVGs were preferred as the combo, because energy vults and rocket rags really got the job done best.
At the end of the day, the lack of combat diversity is not the fault of one weapon, or one ship. It's the fault of people like TRS thinking that even though they do the same thing over and over again (1v1 in an energy vult, or single or no flare valk, flying like a light pilot), everyone else should often pick something other whatever than the current best rig to engage their preferred rig/style is.
Don't want to see a flare valk facing you? Try showing up in an MGC after practicing with it: even a good X-1 pilot will probably change their loadout after quickly vaporizing a couple times. Same goes for a SCP, or if you're any good, a quadrail hornet. The multiflare valk is (1) a very convenient way to fly around VO while maintaining good combat ability, and (2) the current best answer to another popular combo (high-end light energy ships). Sorry if that makes flying a light energy rig boring.
In sum, any rebalancing will not increase the diversity of rigs flown against you in combat where winning is everything. If you don't change what you fly, pilots will simply select the new "best" foil to your own boring-ass setup.
The only thing that might change is whether the general populace does better in flare rigs versus energy rigs. Currently, decent pilots usually do better with the crutch of prox fuse. They're still only decent pilots with it, and the best pilots don't like it, because of the numerous checks (limited ammo, double backsplash damage, high weight, etc.) associated with it. If you nerf it enough, yes, you'll probably get fewer multiflare rigs.
But then you'll be on here whining about how everyone uses gauss and the autoaim needs to be nerfed or the damage lowered or the energy consumption and mass jacked up.
Interesting thought, though: if we follow TRS down the allegedly desirable path of diverse combat rigs such that vults and valks are roughly equally desirable for different reasons, don't we need to gut the license system as it exists now? Currently, while there's a big difference between a vult mk I and a SVG/CV, and between a plain vanilla valk and an X-1, it's very much intended that the valk is a much better combat ship than a vulture. The valk is the pride of the Itani military, has high level and faction requirements, costs significantly more than even the SVG/CV (we won't count the pricey paintjob anniversary editions I love so much), and is intended to be, objectively speaking, a much more dangerous ship.
You get the point; but TRS is seriously whining because (in his example) in a standup 1v1 it's harder for a vulture to win and harder for a vulture to catch a fleeing and damaged opponent. The reason this isn't a problem is because this is VO: the RPG, not VO: the dueling club. Do we engage in lots of consensual PvP for fun? Yes, because there's pissall else to do around here usually. Should we try to balance our combat model to insure that an SVG with AAPs and a dual sun/AAP X-1 are roughly equal in all aspects of combat? Fuck no. If you want your opponent to bring something fun to a duel, ASK. Otherwise, we need to dispense with this idea of some rigs being better -- and harder to get -- than others. If they're all desirable and everything's diverse, why the requirement differences?
Now, more basically, if you want "combat diversity" when people are fighting because they're trying to advance an objective, you're missing the point. Whether it is the best way for you to kill your opponent, not whether your opponent will be excited by the diversity of your rig, is what everyone will choose from...and ships/weapons here are tiered, so expect to see a lot of the same high-end stuff if you're constantly doing the same type of combat.
Which is not to say everyone will show up in a flare-laden X-1 all of the time...that just happens to be the best ship for what we all spend most of our time doing. Zooming around a lot of space littered with a lot of easily accessible ammo dumps, hoping to find some of the few available people to blast in 1v1s or small furballs, and avoiding death and mocking on 100 by winning. Show up to large Deneb battles and tell me how many flare valks you see. During the Deneb run, when valks were allowed and popular, racers brought weapons -- but never sunflares. SCAR was engaging a group of prom jocks? No valks, even though we all had them and pirated in them constantly. MGCs and SVGs were preferred as the combo, because energy vults and rocket rags really got the job done best.
At the end of the day, the lack of combat diversity is not the fault of one weapon, or one ship. It's the fault of people like TRS thinking that even though they do the same thing over and over again (1v1 in an energy vult, or single or no flare valk, flying like a light pilot), everyone else should often pick something other whatever than the current best rig to engage their preferred rig/style is.
Don't want to see a flare valk facing you? Try showing up in an MGC after practicing with it: even a good X-1 pilot will probably change their loadout after quickly vaporizing a couple times. Same goes for a SCP, or if you're any good, a quadrail hornet. The multiflare valk is (1) a very convenient way to fly around VO while maintaining good combat ability, and (2) the current best answer to another popular combo (high-end light energy ships). Sorry if that makes flying a light energy rig boring.
In sum, any rebalancing will not increase the diversity of rigs flown against you in combat where winning is everything. If you don't change what you fly, pilots will simply select the new "best" foil to your own boring-ass setup.
The only thing that might change is whether the general populace does better in flare rigs versus energy rigs. Currently, decent pilots usually do better with the crutch of prox fuse. They're still only decent pilots with it, and the best pilots don't like it, because of the numerous checks (limited ammo, double backsplash damage, high weight, etc.) associated with it. If you nerf it enough, yes, you'll probably get fewer multiflare rigs.
But then you'll be on here whining about how everyone uses gauss and the autoaim needs to be nerfed or the damage lowered or the energy consumption and mass jacked up.
See, now THAT'S MORE LIKE IT.
I will post my detailed response here shortly. For now I will just say that you have misjudged me seriously.
Amazing what you can achieve when you put down the flamethrower.
I will post my detailed response here shortly. For now I will just say that you have misjudged me seriously.
Amazing what you can achieve when you put down the flamethrower.
Oh, God forbid I do that.
Lecter nailed it. Wow, times sure have changed to see me say that. <_<
if we follow TRS down the allegedly desirable path of diverse combat rigs such that vults and valks are roughly equally desirable for different reasons, don't we need to gut the license system as it exists now? Currently, while there's a big difference between a vult mk I and a SVG/CV, and between a plain vanilla valk and an X-1, it's very much intended that the valk is a much better combat ship than a vulture. The valk is the pride of the Itani military, has high level and faction requirements, costs significantly more than even the SVG/CV (we won't count the pricey paintjob anniversary editions I love so much), and is intended to be, objectively speaking, a much more dangerous ship.
You get the point; but TRS is seriously whining because (in his example) in a standup 1v1 it's harder for a vulture to win and harder for a vulture to catch a fleeing and damaged opponent. The reason this isn't a problem is because this is VO: the RPG, not VO: the dueling club.
No you're exactly right (except for the part about me whining), In my example I had in mind a corvult or a serco vulture guardian, not a vult I. A common criticism of the license system is it obviously becomes much less relevant after a certain point. If the devs intend for iceflares and starflares and all those other blasters to be useful only up to the point that you can get better ones, then so be it. But after that point, there are things that can be done to offer a wider range of choices so that it doesn't always have to be the sunflare that people are flying around with.
You're wrong about me taking part in only 1v1 in vults. You couldn't be more mistaken. In FAMY we do heaps of group combat, none of which I've ever seen you there for. We had a big like 10v10 the other day. I went to all the effort of building a trident to encourage group combat in meaningful situations. You don't know me Dr. Lector, and your stereotyping of me is thus completely inappropriate.
So heres my actual suggestion for a flare overhaul that encourages a bit more mixmatching rather than just "pick the one with the most damage". Now, this MAY screw around a little bit with the licensing system, so if the intention is to make iceflares and starflares lower and inferior flares, then my suggestion is just to make new flare types with the same traits as below.
As a preface, I would suggest implementing a traits system. It's not at all clear that flares have concussion. Some flares do, some flares don't have as much (like jacks having more). So it would be good at the very least to be able to see that on the profile.
Iceflare
A hunters flare, designed to explode ejecting a lanthanic-xith alloy compound that binds to the hull of the victim adding weight to the ships hull temporarily before the chemical reaction dissipates
Damage: 800
Speed: 85 m/s (up from 75 m/s)
Energy: 0/blast
Delay: 1.0 s
Mass: 400 kg
Splash Radius: 60m
Proximity: (30m)
Ammo: 16
Lifetime: ~15s
Levels: 4/5/2/-/-
Traits: Cripple (Remove concussion)
Trait: Cripple
Each hit adds 150kg of weight to the enemy vessel up to a maximum of 600kg total. Lasts for 30 seconds after the last successful hit.
Starflare
Ejects heavier elements designed to disorientate an enemy ship its concussive effect.
Damage: 1000
Speed: 85 m/s (up from 75 m/s)
Energy: 0/blast
Delay: 1.0 s
Mass: 600 kg
Splash Radius: 60m
Proximity: (30m)
Ammo: 14
Lifetime: ~15s
Levels: 5/5/4/-/-
Traits: Concussion, No close proximity
Sunflare
Designed as a heavy hitter, the sunflare ejects powerful armour piercing elements which give it superior damage
Damage: 1500
Speed: 85 m/s
Energy: 0/blast
Delay: 1.0 s
Mass: 1000 kg
Splash Radius: 60m
Proximity: (30m)
Ammo: 12
Lifetime: ~15s
Levels: 8/5/8/-/
Traits: Minimum distance detonation (remove concussion)
Riftflare
Essentially a flare filled with xithricite rail elements, designed to shoot out at high temperate and velocity into the hull of an enemy vessel causing superheated structural fractures. There is a limited window while the heated xithricite cools that the hull of a victim is extra vulnerable to enemy fire, allowing this flare to pair well with others or as a side weapon to energy
Damage: 400
Speed: 85 m/s
Energy: 20/blast
Delay: 1.0 s
Mass: 900 kg
Splash Radius: 80m
Proximity: (30m)
Ammo: 8
Lifetime: ~15s
Levels: 8/5/8/-/
Traits: Minimum distance detonation, Fracture
Trait: Fracture
A victim of this weapon takes 7.5% more damage from weapons for 10 seconds after the last successful hit, stacking up to a total bonus of 15%.
You get the point; but TRS is seriously whining because (in his example) in a standup 1v1 it's harder for a vulture to win and harder for a vulture to catch a fleeing and damaged opponent. The reason this isn't a problem is because this is VO: the RPG, not VO: the dueling club.
No you're exactly right (except for the part about me whining), In my example I had in mind a corvult or a serco vulture guardian, not a vult I. A common criticism of the license system is it obviously becomes much less relevant after a certain point. If the devs intend for iceflares and starflares and all those other blasters to be useful only up to the point that you can get better ones, then so be it. But after that point, there are things that can be done to offer a wider range of choices so that it doesn't always have to be the sunflare that people are flying around with.
You're wrong about me taking part in only 1v1 in vults. You couldn't be more mistaken. In FAMY we do heaps of group combat, none of which I've ever seen you there for. We had a big like 10v10 the other day. I went to all the effort of building a trident to encourage group combat in meaningful situations. You don't know me Dr. Lector, and your stereotyping of me is thus completely inappropriate.
So heres my actual suggestion for a flare overhaul that encourages a bit more mixmatching rather than just "pick the one with the most damage". Now, this MAY screw around a little bit with the licensing system, so if the intention is to make iceflares and starflares lower and inferior flares, then my suggestion is just to make new flare types with the same traits as below.
As a preface, I would suggest implementing a traits system. It's not at all clear that flares have concussion. Some flares do, some flares don't have as much (like jacks having more). So it would be good at the very least to be able to see that on the profile.
Iceflare
A hunters flare, designed to explode ejecting a lanthanic-xith alloy compound that binds to the hull of the victim adding weight to the ships hull temporarily before the chemical reaction dissipates
Damage: 800
Speed: 85 m/s (up from 75 m/s)
Energy: 0/blast
Delay: 1.0 s
Mass: 400 kg
Splash Radius: 60m
Proximity: (30m)
Ammo: 16
Lifetime: ~15s
Levels: 4/5/2/-/-
Traits: Cripple (Remove concussion)
Trait: Cripple
Each hit adds 150kg of weight to the enemy vessel up to a maximum of 600kg total. Lasts for 30 seconds after the last successful hit.
Starflare
Ejects heavier elements designed to disorientate an enemy ship its concussive effect.
Damage: 1000
Speed: 85 m/s (up from 75 m/s)
Energy: 0/blast
Delay: 1.0 s
Mass: 600 kg
Splash Radius: 60m
Proximity: (30m)
Ammo: 14
Lifetime: ~15s
Levels: 5/5/4/-/-
Traits: Concussion, No close proximity
Sunflare
Designed as a heavy hitter, the sunflare ejects powerful armour piercing elements which give it superior damage
Damage: 1500
Speed: 85 m/s
Energy: 0/blast
Delay: 1.0 s
Mass: 1000 kg
Splash Radius: 60m
Proximity: (30m)
Ammo: 12
Lifetime: ~15s
Levels: 8/5/8/-/
Traits: Minimum distance detonation (remove concussion)
Riftflare
Essentially a flare filled with xithricite rail elements, designed to shoot out at high temperate and velocity into the hull of an enemy vessel causing superheated structural fractures. There is a limited window while the heated xithricite cools that the hull of a victim is extra vulnerable to enemy fire, allowing this flare to pair well with others or as a side weapon to energy
Damage: 400
Speed: 85 m/s
Energy: 20/blast
Delay: 1.0 s
Mass: 900 kg
Splash Radius: 80m
Proximity: (30m)
Ammo: 8
Lifetime: ~15s
Levels: 8/5/8/-/
Traits: Minimum distance detonation, Fracture
Trait: Fracture
A victim of this weapon takes 7.5% more damage from weapons for 10 seconds after the last successful hit, stacking up to a total bonus of 15%.
So that is my suggestion, yes, we remove concussion from sunflares it's technically a nerf, but with the other flare types its a whole different landscape now.
Thats just a preliminary idea by the way, I have no doubt that those numbers will need tweaking to fit properly.
Thats just a preliminary idea by the way, I have no doubt that those numbers will need tweaking to fit properly.
It's cute that you think your guild's consensual group PvP should serve as a basis for altering the combat structure for VO. I'll also point out you didn't say I was wrong about your preferred style of combat rig.
My main point, though, was that a SVG isn't supposed to have an easy time with a valk. They're nice ships and they have their advantages that a very good pilot can exploit...but overall, they're not supposed to be as a good as a valk.
Obviously, based on your stats, everyone would quickly be flying dual starflare valks. Conc is much more valuable to flares than an extra 500 damage. The idea that an extra 150kg or 7.5% damage is relevant amuses me.
My main point, though, was that a SVG isn't supposed to have an easy time with a valk. They're nice ships and they have their advantages that a very good pilot can exploit...but overall, they're not supposed to be as a good as a valk.
Obviously, based on your stats, everyone would quickly be flying dual starflare valks. Conc is much more valuable to flares than an extra 500 damage. The idea that an extra 150kg or 7.5% damage is relevant amuses me.
It's cute that you think your guild's consensual group PvP should serve as a basis for altering the combat structure for VO.
1) I did not say that my experience should be the basis for altering combat in VO
2) We are only talking about flares.
I'll also point out you didn't say I was wrong about your preferred style of combat rig.
You are wrong about my preferred style of combat rig.
My main point, though, was that a SVG isn't supposed to have an easy time with a valk. They're nice ships and they have their advantages that a very good pilot can exploit...but overall, they're not supposed to be as a good as a valk.
This doesn't have anything to do with flares. At no point did I say an SVG or a Corvult should be as good as a valkryie.
Obviously, based on your stats, everyone would quickly be flying dual starflare valks. Conc is much more valuable to flares than an extra 500 damage. The idea that an extra 150kg or 7.5% damage is relevant amuses me
Then perhaps the numbers need tweaking to make them more appealing alternatives. I haven't done much math into it they are just preliminary suggestions. But if it is in fact the case, as you claim, that conc is more important than any of those other benefits, then a two starflare valk does 1000 damage less per successful hit than a dual sunflare valk would. I've hit plenty of flare strikes where the conc really hasn't done much to disorientate the enemy or where I've been unable to capitalise on it for whatever reason. So I think it's fair to say that some people may see the advantages is using 1 starflare, 1 sunflare or still sticking to 2 sunflare. But given some of the benefits can be situationally powerful, I think you're wrong.
I think you're being obnoxious, A system like this could alleviate some of the common complaints about flares and add more competitive options than simply dual sunnies. If you don't think that the stats for the other flare types I've proposed will achieve that, then howbout giving us some numbers that will?
1) I did not say that my experience should be the basis for altering combat in VO
2) We are only talking about flares.
I'll also point out you didn't say I was wrong about your preferred style of combat rig.
You are wrong about my preferred style of combat rig.
My main point, though, was that a SVG isn't supposed to have an easy time with a valk. They're nice ships and they have their advantages that a very good pilot can exploit...but overall, they're not supposed to be as a good as a valk.
This doesn't have anything to do with flares. At no point did I say an SVG or a Corvult should be as good as a valkryie.
Obviously, based on your stats, everyone would quickly be flying dual starflare valks. Conc is much more valuable to flares than an extra 500 damage. The idea that an extra 150kg or 7.5% damage is relevant amuses me
Then perhaps the numbers need tweaking to make them more appealing alternatives. I haven't done much math into it they are just preliminary suggestions. But if it is in fact the case, as you claim, that conc is more important than any of those other benefits, then a two starflare valk does 1000 damage less per successful hit than a dual sunflare valk would. I've hit plenty of flare strikes where the conc really hasn't done much to disorientate the enemy or where I've been unable to capitalise on it for whatever reason. So I think it's fair to say that some people may see the advantages is using 1 starflare, 1 sunflare or still sticking to 2 sunflare. But given some of the benefits can be situationally powerful, I think you're wrong.
I think you're being obnoxious, A system like this could alleviate some of the common complaints about flares and add more competitive options than simply dual sunnies. If you don't think that the stats for the other flare types I've proposed will achieve that, then howbout giving us some numbers that will?