Forums » Suggestions
so for you newbs who don't know i used to play this game a lot and there has always been one game breaking combo dual or triple flares. you get the bennefit of double the ammo and practicly double the prox trigger with the only downside being an extra 1000kg (in the case of sunflares which are the only ones worth using)
compare this to energy weapons which have their own built in stacking penalty based on the fact that they consume energy and directly inhibit you from fleeing
and before the predictable response from people saying but your ship weighs more!!! take this into consideration.
two popular load outs are two neutron blaster mk2s and a sunny. combined they weigh 2200kg and your battery is drained twice as fast. compare that to dual sunnys and a neutron blasker mk2 which comes in at 2600 kg so you get a bigger prox radius and half the energy drain for only 400 more kgs
I propose halving the flare ammo when you duel wield flare launchers, since that is essentially what happens to your battery when you use two energy weapons.
flame on newbs!
compare this to energy weapons which have their own built in stacking penalty based on the fact that they consume energy and directly inhibit you from fleeing
and before the predictable response from people saying but your ship weighs more!!! take this into consideration.
two popular load outs are two neutron blaster mk2s and a sunny. combined they weigh 2200kg and your battery is drained twice as fast. compare that to dual sunnys and a neutron blasker mk2 which comes in at 2600 kg so you get a bigger prox radius and half the energy drain for only 400 more kgs
I propose halving the flare ammo when you duel wield flare launchers, since that is essentially what happens to your battery when you use two energy weapons.
flame on newbs!
I think it might be good to consider implementing downsides to using multiple weapons which don't use energy, but I don't like the idea of taking away ammo. Maybe the delay between firing could be increased? There are plenty of stats that could be potentially tweaked, but to me changing the ammo seems like one of the worst solutions.
-1
increasing the delay isn't much of a penalty in a typical pvp fight the time between launch and contact with the enemy is generally over a second.
I'd like to remind everyone that flares have the second effect of imparting an explosive force on the ship that causes it to spin around something no energy weapon can do (aside from cap gauss but players can't use those)
if not ammo reduction i would also suggest the prox fuze lowered to 20m instead of 30
I'd like to remind everyone that flares have the second effect of imparting an explosive force on the ship that causes it to spin around something no energy weapon can do (aside from cap gauss but players can't use those)
if not ammo reduction i would also suggest the prox fuze lowered to 20m instead of 30
I don't think flares are as game-breaking as you seem to think they are.
+1 to nerfing flares.
Some other options to look at:
1) increase the weight
2) reduce the velocity
3) remove or reduce the added ship velocity.
4) reduce or eliminate force applied to enemy ship
Some other options to look at:
1) increase the weight
2) reduce the velocity
3) remove or reduce the added ship velocity.
4) reduce or eliminate force applied to enemy ship
Just because I whooped you with dual flares once... :P
I'll +1 reducing force applied to enemy ship and increasing the weight, but mostly because nobody doesn't, if you'll pardon the double negative, fight with flares these days. Energy fights are extinct.
I'll +1 reducing force applied to enemy ship and increasing the weight, but mostly because nobody doesn't, if you'll pardon the double negative, fight with flares these days. Energy fights are extinct.
I'm completely with peytros on this one. Something needs to be done to lower the utility of sunflares. There is zero diversity in highly competitive PvP, someone is going to have a sunflare and as soon as that happens, energy boat goes away, time for flarespam. The upsides are ridiculous and energy is, well, pitiful by comparison.
What. The. Fuck.
-10000000000000000000000
You got pwned by flares because you're rusty as shit, so we need to nerf them?
Sunflares were already nerfed long before peypey graced us with his presence. They don't need you fucking noobs trying to dumb them down yet again.
Once pilots actually learn to dodge, keep/close distance, and aim energy, all the flares in the world won't help you against them. See, e.g., Maalik.
I propose halving the flare ammo when you duel wield flare launchers, since that is essentially what happens to your battery when you use two energy weapons.
Pey, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
If you land both your shots with dual energy weapons, you do double damage at the cost of twice the energy. If you land both rounds with flares, you do something greater than normal damage at the cost of two of your flares. In each case, your greater spread gives a greater chance of scoring a hit. The main difference is that energy weapons have no ammo limit and no prox - flares have an ammo limit and prox.
-10000000000000000000000
You got pwned by flares because you're rusty as shit, so we need to nerf them?
Sunflares were already nerfed long before peypey graced us with his presence. They don't need you fucking noobs trying to dumb them down yet again.
Once pilots actually learn to dodge, keep/close distance, and aim energy, all the flares in the world won't help you against them. See, e.g., Maalik.
I propose halving the flare ammo when you duel wield flare launchers, since that is essentially what happens to your battery when you use two energy weapons.
Pey, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
If you land both your shots with dual energy weapons, you do double damage at the cost of twice the energy. If you land both rounds with flares, you do something greater than normal damage at the cost of two of your flares. In each case, your greater spread gives a greater chance of scoring a hit. The main difference is that energy weapons have no ammo limit and no prox - flares have an ammo limit and prox.
hahaha do it just fer havin' da pleasure to hear him whine about remove his own shit when he'll be back in his dual flare potato : ]
In the spirit of diversity, I make the following more creative suggestions:
3 types of flares with unique effects making them an effective side weapon to energy:
Iceflares: Adds temporary additional weight to the enemy ship stacking with every successful hit (essentially slowing them down, picture little bits of weighted shrapnel sticking to the hull of the ship)
Starflares: These should be made into the only flares with concussive force. I would consider lowering the prox to about 25m, the concussion is completely silly on sunflares, it should come with a slight reduction in prox as a tradeoff
Sunflares: Remove conc, halve the base damage of the flare. Each hit of a sunflare will add a damage bonus to the next sunflare, scaling up to 1500 per flare. So successive hits are dangerous, but having a bunch of them tied together not so dangerous.
This will cause people to at least be creative with their multiple flare layouts. perhaps mixing a sunflare with a starflare or an iceflare, depending on the situation.
If you wish to further discourage the obscene amount of dual flare layouts, i would suggest an additional weight penalty on using 2 flares of the same type.
3 types of flares with unique effects making them an effective side weapon to energy:
Iceflares: Adds temporary additional weight to the enemy ship stacking with every successful hit (essentially slowing them down, picture little bits of weighted shrapnel sticking to the hull of the ship)
Starflares: These should be made into the only flares with concussive force. I would consider lowering the prox to about 25m, the concussion is completely silly on sunflares, it should come with a slight reduction in prox as a tradeoff
Sunflares: Remove conc, halve the base damage of the flare. Each hit of a sunflare will add a damage bonus to the next sunflare, scaling up to 1500 per flare. So successive hits are dangerous, but having a bunch of them tied together not so dangerous.
This will cause people to at least be creative with their multiple flare layouts. perhaps mixing a sunflare with a starflare or an iceflare, depending on the situation.
If you wish to further discourage the obscene amount of dual flare layouts, i would suggest an additional weight penalty on using 2 flares of the same type.
-1
Sure dual flares can be annoying but there are counter tactics already available
--Keep moving at all times
--Hit n run strikes
--Fly annoyingly backwards
--Fly right down their effing throats
--Spam gats constantly whenever someone comes near you <3
--List lazily to the right or left like in starwars or even up and down! **MODERN TECHNOLOGY!!!**
--Dodge dip duck dive and dodge
Sure dual flares can be annoying but there are counter tactics already available
--Keep moving at all times
--Hit n run strikes
--Fly annoyingly backwards
--Fly right down their effing throats
--Spam gats constantly whenever someone comes near you <3
--List lazily to the right or left like in starwars or even up and down! **MODERN TECHNOLOGY!!!**
--Dodge dip duck dive and dodge
oh come off it lecter even i use flares, albeit only a single one to give the wee newbs a sporting chance. the concussion effect and the increased prox fuze due to the way they are launched from mauds and valks is rediculous
Maalik was probably the best pvper in the history of VO so using him as a gauge of what is balanced is pretty flawed
there is no denying that furballs invariably turn into one giant flare fuck fest since they have no effect on your energy and the weight difference in nominal compared to energy weapons
even from an RP standpoint it is retarded that we are using 20th century technology in the 50th century.
Maalik was probably the best pvper in the history of VO so using him as a gauge of what is balanced is pretty flawed
there is no denying that furballs invariably turn into one giant flare fuck fest since they have no effect on your energy and the weight difference in nominal compared to energy weapons
even from an RP standpoint it is retarded that we are using 20th century technology in the 50th century.
Niki, Shape, Tumble, Gavan... lots of people not all that flarable. Strat, when he was good, used a single flare and was himself pretty damn hard to flare. The list goes on and on.
This is a gear solution to a skill problem, so shut the fuck up.
This is a gear solution to a skill problem, so shut the fuck up.
Most of the top PvPers in VO don't/didn't use flares in their go-to setups very often, and none or almost none use more than one flare.
I agree with Lecter.
I agree with Lecter.
yes hitting someone when you effectively have a 60 meter wide prox fuze takes a lot of skill, and there are people worried that the proposed featherlight gauss would be hard to dodge ha!
I'm going to make some observations here:
Pey, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought.
Is not a convincing argument.
If you land both your shots with dual energy weapons, you do double damage at the cost of twice the energy. If you land both rounds with flares, you do something greater than normal damage at the cost of two of your flares. In each case, your greater spread gives a greater chance of scoring a hit. The main difference is that energy weapons have no ammo limit and no prox - flares have an ammo limit and prox.
Is.
Even if counter tactics exist, flares should still be changed if it encourages diversity and an interesting combat experience, at the moment its fairly boring when you don't even have to worry about what's on that Valkryie when it comes into sector, you know its dual flares and a blaster.
Pey, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought.
Is not a convincing argument.
If you land both your shots with dual energy weapons, you do double damage at the cost of twice the energy. If you land both rounds with flares, you do something greater than normal damage at the cost of two of your flares. In each case, your greater spread gives a greater chance of scoring a hit. The main difference is that energy weapons have no ammo limit and no prox - flares have an ammo limit and prox.
Is.
Even if counter tactics exist, flares should still be changed if it encourages diversity and an interesting combat experience, at the moment its fairly boring when you don't even have to worry about what's on that Valkryie when it comes into sector, you know its dual flares and a blaster.
"Most of the top PvPers in VO don't/didn't use flares in their go-to setups very often, and none or almost none use more than one flare."
pffft this is a joke right?
lets take a look at the duel ladder then. 1 nahin lor, i have never seen him out of a dual flare x-1 ever 2 strat same deal but he occasionally uses a vulture 3 footballprofit, i don't know him that well but the only times i have fought him were in dual flare x-1s also. 6. ishithis bassuni has taken the strat approach to fighting and always has one or two flares mainly a rev-c.
EDIT if i bothered to duel I could resub and get to the top of the duel ladder in under a month using a dual sunflare x-1
pffft this is a joke right?
lets take a look at the duel ladder then. 1 nahin lor, i have never seen him out of a dual flare x-1 ever 2 strat same deal but he occasionally uses a vulture 3 footballprofit, i don't know him that well but the only times i have fought him were in dual flare x-1s also. 6. ishithis bassuni has taken the strat approach to fighting and always has one or two flares mainly a rev-c.
EDIT if i bothered to duel I could resub and get to the top of the duel ladder in under a month using a dual sunflare x-1
at the moment its fairly boring when you don't even have to worry about what's on that Valkryie when it comes into sector, you know its dual flares and a blaster
Except that's not true. Drazed loves the ravens/posis valk; I prefer dual gauss and a single flare, sometimes stars rathe than suns; Space Hunter, annoying as he was, used an energy valk. Etc ad nauseam.
True, plenty of noobs think "flares=big boom=teh win" and pick that load out, but that doesn't mean the most effective valk pilots choose it. The reason they don't is that it isn't actually as optimal, much less unbalanced, as all the crybabies here claim it is.
Perhaps I should start a thread about nerfing AAPs, because some people actually learned how to use them well, or ADV Rails for the same reason.
Fucking carebears.
Except that's not true. Drazed loves the ravens/posis valk; I prefer dual gauss and a single flare, sometimes stars rathe than suns; Space Hunter, annoying as he was, used an energy valk. Etc ad nauseam.
True, plenty of noobs think "flares=big boom=teh win" and pick that load out, but that doesn't mean the most effective valk pilots choose it. The reason they don't is that it isn't actually as optimal, much less unbalanced, as all the crybabies here claim it is.
Perhaps I should start a thread about nerfing AAPs, because some people actually learned how to use them well, or ADV Rails for the same reason.
Fucking carebears.
-1 'bout nerfin' da good ol' Doc : p