Other topic to reform:
* Small convoys inside nation space. Big convoys crosses gray. *
Why displace a trident to cover a convoy inside a "safe" nation space?

Because they're big, impressive, pretty, and have a lot of cargo space. Although I propose that we give escort cappies the same turrets as the moth heavies. The super gauss is incapable of hitting players in fighters, anyways, all it does is instant kill any npcs that come close (who, of course, fall right into it). Anyways, the super gauss is meant for cap ship vs. cap ship which is not going to happen on an escort mission. The moth heavy gat turrets are much more balanced in anti-fighter combat.

Also, I hate to whine, but their uber high armor is meant for cap ship vs. cap ship or sitting in a single sector being pounded by all kinds of fighters for several hours, as well. I'm simply suggesting to give escort Tridents 500,000 armor rather than 1,000,000 and escort Connies 1,000,000 armor rather than 4,000,000. Shields would stay the same.

Shank: Comment from traders who like being invulnerable in capships while "escorting": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MLry6Cn_D4

I don't see why it's a problem that 3 runs of 1 wh each pay roughly the same as 1 run of 3 whs. Doing 3 missions is more marginally labor intensive, anyway.

A convoy is much more likely to survive a 1 wh trip than a 3 wh one. Keeping the convoy alive for the whole duration is what makes the longer missions more challenging. Say you take 3 missions each 1 wh, and your escorts make it to the destination each time with 50% hull. With a comparable 3 wh mission, those escorts aren't going to reach their destination.

The fact is a convoy can survive a 1 wh route fairly easily even if the player does practically nothing to defend it. Therefore, what incentive would anyone have to do the longer escort missions when they can instead string together a series of shorter missions for the same pay? (or rather a higher pay even, since a greater percentage of the convoy will likely survive with the short ones)

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After some contemplation, I realize that wh's can't really be classified as nation/grey but rather border systems that are nation/grey (i.e. how do you classify a wh bordering both nation and grey space?).

Therefore I would modify the equation I proposed earlier as thus:

a = # of nation space systems the convoy goes through
c = # of grey space systems the convoy goes through
n = a + 1.5c

( 1,000*[(n-1)*(n-2)+2] + 15,000b )...

And revised values:
2 systems (1 wh) nation space...(2,000 + 15,000b)*(3y/2x) = (3,000 + 22,500b)cr
2 systems (1 wh) grey................(4,000 + 15,000b)*(3y/2x) = (6,000 + 22,500b)cr
3 systems (2 wh) nation space...(4,000 + 15,000b)*(3y/2x) = (6,000 + 22,500b)cr
3 systems (2 wh) grey................(10,750 + 15,000b)*(3y/2x) = (16,125 + 22,500b)cr
5 systems (4 wh) nation space...(14,000 + 15,000b)*(3y/2x) = (21,000 + 22,500b)cr
5 systems (4 wh) grey:...............(37,750 + 15,000b)*(3y/2x) = (56,625 + 22,500b)cr
8 systems (7 wh) nation space...(44,000 + 15,000b)*(3y/2x) = (66,000 + 22,500b)cr
8 systems (7 wh) grey................(112,000 + 15,000b)*(3y/2x) = (168,000 + 22,500b)cr

This is close to what I had before, but ends up weighting grey routes slightly higher than before, which I don't necessarily see as a bad thing. 1 wh grey pays double nation space, and 7 wh grey (the max if I counted right) pays nearly triple.

EDIT: now my numbers are easier to compare to ShankTank's numbers 3 posts below

meridian: On second thought, you have a good point. I'm too tired to look at your numbers atm, but conceptually I agree with you.

Aye, your numbers look good, there.

How does this look?

a = # of nation space wormholes the convoy goes through
b = # of ion storms the convoy goes through
c = # of grey space wormholes the convoy goes through (count border wormholes as grey excluding the Ukari-UIT and Helios-Serco whs)
x = the amount of cargo (cu) the convoy starts out with
y = the amount of cargo (cu) the convoy docks with
n = (a) + 1.5(c)

(5000n+500n^2+10000b)*(3y/2x)

Assuming y and x are equal this comes out to:
(1 wh) nation space.....(8,250 + 15,000b)cr
(1 wh) grey................(12,938 + 15,000b)cr
(2 wh) nation space...(18,000 + 15,000b)cr
(2 wh) grey................(29,250 + 15,000b)cr
(4 wh) nation space...(42,000 + 15,000b)cr
(4 wh) grey................(72,000 + 15,000b)cr
(7 wh) nation space...(89,250 + 15,000b)cr
(7 wh) grey..............(161,438 + 15,000b)cr

The numbers look higher because this includes the final term.

MAJOR problem:
n=0 for a 1 wh route that goes though 1 nation space and 1 grey system [No longer applies with switch back to wh count]

EDIT: Removed corrected values since now fixed

Also, could you go into more detail about what you are trying to balance with the new formula? Are you just trying to make the shorter routes pay a bit more, or are you trying to decrease the discrepancy between nation/grey routes? (~1.5 times more for 1 wh, ~1.8 times more for 7 wh in the new formula). Are you trying to bring down the pay for longer routes? (7 wh is about the same with my calculations for your formula, a bit less according to your calculations)

Personally, I like how a 1 wh route pays very little in my formula if no storms are encountered (though I'll admit I may have made it too low in my formula).

Whoops, yeah, the calculation errors there are my fault lol. I tried to cut corners with my graphing calculator late at night, apparently. I forgot the 1.5 constant in n on one of the terms when I was roughly punching it in.

Aye, I wanted to keep it linear enough while still adding a bonus to taking a 4 wh route rather than 2 2 wh routes or a 2 wh route rather than 2 1 wh routes, etc. because I don't necessarily like the massive exponential increase. I took to this problem by trying out adding an exponent multiplied by a lesser coefficient to an otherwise linear term, although my attempt was pretty rough lol.

Oh, and haha, I didn't think of the case in which n=0, good call. I'm thinking we should switch back to the wormhole system and count border wormholes as grey (excluding the Helios-Serco and Ukari-UIT whs...) it'd be much simpler. I think border wormholes are actually much more dangerous than your regular old grey wormholes, anyway. I, myself, tend to camp them more than ones deeper in grey.

I think border wormholes are actually much more dangerous than your regular old grey wormholes, anyway. I, myself, tend to camp them more than ones deeper in grey.

Ok, good point there. Going back to the wormhole system would make n=a+1.5c and your equation wouldn't change.

I'm liking the new formula you proposed more and more the longer I look at it. I'd say it looks good.

Would you mind editing your post to include the correct values?

I agree with these numbers.

Fixed.

hmmm who let the closet door opened again?

: )

It occurs to me that reducing the player's pay based on the percentage of the convoy's route that was followed becomes redundant in this newly proposed escort system. The player would have to travel through the storm sectors to get credit (b in formula), and n could be adjusted to only include wh's that the player travels through as well.

No, it's not redundant. Leave the percentage of route scaling the same as it is now.

One way we can balance pirating and escorting would be to make convoys drop assorted cargo like they used to. that way there would never really be a single popped moth worth more than around 150,000cr and the variety in the loot is much more fun to play with.

Convoy drops currently average around 60k per moth, which is barely worth hauling. I like widely varying convoy drops because hunting for voys that will drop something worth hauling adds an element of excitement to what would otherwise be somewhat boring, and it feels great to occasionally get a moth that has 1.5 million worth of cargo, after futilely popping ones full of free batteries and bearing grease for an hour or two.

Anyway, why are we talking about balancing pirating against escorting? That's an apples-to-oranges comparison at best.

Alright... maybe I just miss the old cargo disco balls. Q_Q

Maalik the space-quaker looks at this thread and scowls. If I have to work for my ship burning money I think I might just cry.

Space quake-er or space quaker?

It's a subtle distinction, isn't it.