Using Chaak's formula:

a = # of nation space wormholes the convoy goes through
b = # of ion storms the convoy goes through
c = # of grey space wormholes the convoy goes through
x = the amount of cargo (cu) the convoy starts out with
y = the amount of cargo (cu) the convoy docks with

(5,000a+10,000c+15,000b)*(3y/2x)

Let's try a run from Sedina to Edras... 4 ion storms is reasonable.

5,000(0)+10,000(4)+15,000(4) * [3(360)/2(360)]
100,000 * 1080/720
150,000

It looks pretty good to me, although I think we need to do something with the second part. If you had 10 Behemoth Heavies in a mission going from Sedina to Edras with 4 storms, and another mission you had 1 Atlas going from Sedina to Edras with 4 storms, you would have the same payoff.

the last term on formula is not primarily related to convoy size, instead, its the survival rate. For me, should be kept.

Aye. It takes focus away from the randomly generated convoy size and contents, and puts it on actually escorting the convoy. The last term should stay.

But then bigger convoys are always better because theres no correlation with bigger pirates.

Interesting - And will we also be reducing the drops from convoys as well? The pirates should also take a paycut as well.....

Distance should definately play a factor but I think the convoy value needs to be considered as well in the form of a small percentage.

It is long past time that combat in any form was rewarded. A per sector combat bonus as well as a per kill bonus would be ideal.

Per sector base * Combat bonus * Kill bonus * Grey space bonus * storm bonus

Assuming each bonus doubles payment

5000 * 2 * 2 * 2 * 2= 80000 per storm sector in grey with a kill

the same trip in nation space with no combatwould only earn 5000 per sector

total payment = 1 percent cargo value + sum of sectors traveled

And will we also be reducing the drops from convoys as well? The pirates should also take a paycut as well.

When pirating a convoy becomes as easy as escorting one, then you might have a point.

And no, you're not getting 80k per sector for popping some Oruns.

Well if you actually bothered to read the post (before posting your usual venom) you only would get 80k in a grey space storm sector after killing some oruns. In dau you would only get 5k for a hop.... The only time you would see million credit escorts would be on very long trips thru grey. Short hops in nation space would be 5k usually. A trip from Dau to Latos might get you 5k + 5k +5k +10k for a base of 25k plus bonusing for storms and combat. Very low pay compared to current levels.

All mission fees and drops will need to be reduced or drained if the economy is ever to get back in balance... Having moths drop million credit cargos when escorts are only getting 25k a shot is extremely unbalanced.

One phrase I hear often:
-What is the purpose of a Ion storms if no bots in?

Instead of pay for Ion Storms, pay for attack waves. More if attacked inside an Ion Storm (x4 probably).

Rationale:
The objective is the survival of convoy. Killing agressors is a bonus. If you REPEL it, you ensure convoy's survival!

Having moths drop million credit cargos when escorts are only getting 25k a shot is extremely unbalanced.

The escorts aren't getting shot at by an entire pissed off convoy and having to haul stuff themselves -- they're sitting in a Connie, watching Corvus holo-porn.

I don't think it's an issue of balance against pirates, it should be an issue of balance against the economy. The payouts for escorts are completely absurd, the the point where the convoy is often actually operating at a financial loss. I received a 1.2 million payout for a one jump escort with only a trident and a moth. How is that even possible? A sanity based formula like the one above is a great solution to what amounts to a money exploit. There have been situations likes this before (I remember doing 1000 bot Border Patrols), but never did they require so little work to take advantage of. I made a new character and it's still level 1/1/0 and has 20 million from escort missions. :/

What you do on convoy duty is of no concern to me Lecter BUT do try to keep one hand on the keyboard while your playing :P

I dont disagree with the payouts being way too high atm - But no single piece of the economy will fix things. Only an overall solution is going to work and very few MMOs have ever managed to get it right.

The simple truth is that most players actually respond better to the big numbers and what is really needed is a very large money drain. Hopefully Cappies and Player owned stations will be able to syphon off a large amount of the current imbalances. Without a drain for the money it will build up in-game no matter no low you set the payments.

Alloh. This isn't space invaders. Haven't we already told you that, anyway?

"When pirating a convoy becomes as easy as escorting one, then you might have a point."

Pirating a convoy IS as easy if not easier than escorting one. I used to make a living in VO doing just that.

Pirating a convoy IS as easy if not easier than escorting one.

No, it isn't. This is not up for debate. Most convoys are entirely unopposed, and many have cappies in which players ride, invulnerable, until the end of the mission.

Pirates, however, have to kill things, avoid automated turret fire from both moth heavies and cappies, deal with flare/gat hogs, and then haul whatever they killed out of the sector.

Which is not to say piracy is particularly difficult -- just that it is a metric fuckton harder than escort "duty."

I admit that the one thing that would make piracy of convoys a lot more imbalanced than escort duty is the option to take escorts, abort them, and then attack it. This is more "farming" than it is piracy; and probably what Death Fluffy is referring to as to how he made his money. Such an action should definitely be discouraged somehow.

Amateurs :P

in reply to fluffer



also poor form doc poor form you should have spotted that from a mile away.

Regardless... what came to my attention with meridian's post was that taking one single sector escort, then another, then another, then another pays more than just taking one long escort. Should we replace the first term with something more along the lines of his idea?

Also, about the farming thing, perhaps we can make it so that if you attack a faction's convoy you don't get any additional faction loss or other penalties, but you will not be able to take an escort mission from that faction for a week. As it does make sense that occasionally a pirate might lure a convoy out and attack it once clear of the station, it doesn't make sense that that pirate would keep going back and getting more escort missions in quick succession. A week seems to be a reasonable timeline.

Edit: in case you're too lazy to look back at the last page, this is the part of meridian's post I was referring to (although we could bump that 1,000 up to 2,500 or so):

2) Pay is basically linear with the length of the route. This means you'd be better off doing 3 runs of 1 wh each than a single 3 wh run since there is greater risk of losing ships with the longer route.

Instead of: (5,000a+10,000c+15,000b)...

I'd propose something more along the lines of:
( 1,000*[n*(n-1)+2] + 15,000b )...

where n = a + 1.5c

This comes out to:
1 wh nation space: (2,000 + 15,000b)...
1 wh grey: (2,750 + 15,000b)...
2 wh nation space: (4,000 + 15,000b)...
2 wh grey: (8,000 + 15,000b)...
4 wh nation space: (14,000 + 15,000b)...
4 wh grey: (32,000 + 15,000b)...
-meridian

Also, about the farming thing, perhaps we can make it so that if you attack a faction's convoy you don't get any additional faction loss or other penalties, but you will not be able to take an escort mission from that faction for a week.

I like that idea, though I think there should be a small faction loss associated with failing an escort mission (whether one attacks it or simply abandons the group) as well.

I don't see why it's a problem that 3 runs of 1 wh each pay roughly the same as 1 run of 3 whs. Doing 3 missions is more marginally labor intensive, anyway.

Response to traitors already proposed:
If you attack a convoy you are defending, the remaining ships after 1st kill should report back to base, and traitor gets faction loss, monetary loss and gets blacklisted for convoys to/from that faction.

Other topic to reform:
* Small convoys inside nation space. Big convoys crosses gray. *
Why displace a trident to cover a convoy inside a "safe" nation space?

Related idea:
Periodic (scheduled) convoys, with or without players. Economy don't stop, and stations needs regular supply routes.
Already happens on small scale, just make it more often. And make it respond to treat level as CtC does, i.e., if one convoy is attacked, next one on same route gets more escorts.