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If the prom is nerfed, there will be absolutely no reason to be Serco... just throwing that out there.
I really do honestly think that the Prom is balanced, at least I think that now. All it requires is a mentality shift. The weakness is there and yet most refuse to accept it, whether it be the UIT or Itani looking for a one on one duel/fight or the Serco wondering why no one wants to duel his Prom solo. Team tactics take a Prom down easy. That is its weakness.
For that matter, when the war starts to move into areas where tactics and maneuverability play more of a role (such as station conquest), I wouldn't be surprised to see a "Valk nerf" thread pop up. For flying into enemy territory and raiding supply lines, it's hard to top the Valkerie.
the prom is supposded to be a bomber, and in my opinion bombers shouldnt be able to take any fighter 1v1. bombers are supposed to take out larger targets and give support from a distance, not pick off fighters 1 by 1. look at the real world bombers, only a crazy person would send out bombers to combat a group of fighters. and some people say that they use proms because they are outnumbered, but many players continue to use them even when they outnumber the itani.
today i was doing bp and i was engaged by 2 or more proms multiple times this is how it goes
2proms vs 2 valks prom wins
1prom vs 1 valk prom wins
2valks vs 1prom valks win
2proms vs one valk what valk
2proms vs 2 valks prom wins
1prom vs 1 valk prom wins
2valks vs 1prom valks win
2proms vs one valk what valk
Mr. Bean,
The WWII era B-17 flying fortress bomber was intentionally sent out over enemy territory without any fighter escort, in day time bombing raids. The B-17 accounted for large portions of axis fighter aircraft loses. The rein of the B-17 continued even well after the allies started producing larger bombers, and long range fighter escorts. To say that bomber are not sent out to fight fighters, is a direct contradiction of history. While destroying fighters was not the primary mission of the B-17, destroying any fighter resistance presented was considered part of it's overall mission.
Spidey,
It is time consuming for a Serco to deliver a prom to Deneb C-10, as compared to an Itani delivering a Valk. The Serco need a robust ship to counter the discrepancy. Further more, the strength of the valk is it's ability to pick which fights to engage in. A prom that is engaged by multiple valks has little chance of escape, whereas a valk can escape almost any situation. If valk pilots choose to engage in foolish ventures, this is not really the fault of the prom or the valk. I am still in favor of increasing the valk's turbo cost to 60.
The WWII era B-17 flying fortress bomber was intentionally sent out over enemy territory without any fighter escort, in day time bombing raids. The B-17 accounted for large portions of axis fighter aircraft loses. The rein of the B-17 continued even well after the allies started producing larger bombers, and long range fighter escorts. To say that bomber are not sent out to fight fighters, is a direct contradiction of history. While destroying fighters was not the primary mission of the B-17, destroying any fighter resistance presented was considered part of it's overall mission.
Spidey,
It is time consuming for a Serco to deliver a prom to Deneb C-10, as compared to an Itani delivering a Valk. The Serco need a robust ship to counter the discrepancy. Further more, the strength of the valk is it's ability to pick which fights to engage in. A prom that is engaged by multiple valks has little chance of escape, whereas a valk can escape almost any situation. If valk pilots choose to engage in foolish ventures, this is not really the fault of the prom or the valk. I am still in favor of increasing the valk's turbo cost to 60.
comparing the b-17 to a prom is really.... i wont say the word.
there were 4 gunners on that thing. it's really no analogy.
there were 4 gunners on that thing. it's really no analogy.
yes but i don't like being called a runner
cunjo on the other hand doesn't seem to mind
cunjo on the other hand doesn't seem to mind
Proms aren't bombers. They're assault ships.
Just wait for when/if this game gets a large influx of players. People will stop caring about being called a runner. Sure, some of us may still fight to the death on a matter of principle, but the majority of a new playerbase will do what they can to survive. Retreat is a viable tactic after all, it's just that with the current Space Quake atmosphere, it's no fun for anyone. When/if we move away from Space Quake, you'll see a lot more retreating and a lot less valk deaths. The result of this will be, prom pilots might not have a lot of kills, but they'll sure as hell have very few deaths. Either that or bring a mix of fighters. A prom and an SVG together will smack you around up close and then run you down when you try to flee. And keep in mind that a group of proms might not be able to pursue, but if they stay together they really don't need to pursue. Anyone that comes near coordinated proms should be toasted pretty quickly. So yeah, you can't run after people in a prom, but keep in mind that if they want to kill you, they have to come to you eventually. You just have to be patient. When I fly a prom, I almost never touch the turbo button.
I still say leave balance until after 2.0. Let's see what kind of a game this becomes with a large playerbase and (god I hope) content.
Just wait for when/if this game gets a large influx of players. People will stop caring about being called a runner. Sure, some of us may still fight to the death on a matter of principle, but the majority of a new playerbase will do what they can to survive. Retreat is a viable tactic after all, it's just that with the current Space Quake atmosphere, it's no fun for anyone. When/if we move away from Space Quake, you'll see a lot more retreating and a lot less valk deaths. The result of this will be, prom pilots might not have a lot of kills, but they'll sure as hell have very few deaths. Either that or bring a mix of fighters. A prom and an SVG together will smack you around up close and then run you down when you try to flee. And keep in mind that a group of proms might not be able to pursue, but if they stay together they really don't need to pursue. Anyone that comes near coordinated proms should be toasted pretty quickly. So yeah, you can't run after people in a prom, but keep in mind that if they want to kill you, they have to come to you eventually. You just have to be patient. When I fly a prom, I almost never touch the turbo button.
I still say leave balance until after 2.0. Let's see what kind of a game this becomes with a large playerbase and (god I hope) content.
spidey, well there ya go. You just admitted you had a choice but don't want it. The Devs don't need to balance anything due to the player NOT WANTING to use the option available.
Plus, being called a Valk guy a runner is like calling a promjock a lamer. It just all fits together. Standard harassment.
PS - Ghost hit it on the head.
Plus, being called a Valk guy a runner is like calling a promjock a lamer. It just all fits together. Standard harassment.
PS - Ghost hit it on the head.
Erik: if the best way to beat a prom is to gank it, what do you do when you duel a prom?
ehhh... I hadn't flown a valk in about 3 months before today, and I STILL managed to beat an AGT/flare prom in a 1v1 with an NIII/phaseII Valk X-1. It is really not that hard... the valk does NOT need buffing, nor does the prom need nerfing. If you're practiced with the valk, it should be a cakewalk.
Well, Cunjo, there's a simple explanation for that.
[You are] the most honorable warrior and players not as awesome as [you] ganked [you] because they suck at the game.
Instead of saying no to giving [you] head they should put [you] before real life.
I guess it does work for both of them.
[You are] the most honorable warrior and players not as awesome as [you] ganked [you] because they suck at the game.
Instead of saying no to giving [you] head they should put [you] before real life.
I guess it does work for both of them.
Simple slime, just don't. :/ Know thy limitations.
And yes, I've beaten Proms, and can beat them, in a Valk, but that's like saying a Rag can beat a Centurion (not hyperbolizing). I just mean that it CAN happen, doesn't mean it's likely to.
And yes, I've beaten Proms, and can beat them, in a Valk, but that's like saying a Rag can beat a Centurion (not hyperbolizing). I just mean that it CAN happen, doesn't mean it's likely to.
I think that the best measure of ships, is by the best pilots with those ships. So to say you can beat ship x with ship y, doesn't really prove anything, unless you are prepared to challenge one of the best pilots of that ship type. I commonly boom multiple cents, using a rag, but the second Nerde brings a rev-c to the scene, it becomes a toss up. It is also not uncommon for me to boom proms, using various ships, but the prom is the only ship I have ever managed to boom Matriarch's prom in. From the reverse perspective, my prom will defeat Cunjo's rag about %90 of the time. I view this as sound proof that the prom is in a league of it's own. But, in the same light, the valk is also in a league of it's own. Ghost and shape are deadly in just about any all energy fighter you put them in, but it is only in the valk that ghost manages to dodge every flare, avoid almost all gat fire, while still delivering devastating damage. Facing Ghost's valk solo is almost always certain death, because with a valk, he has complete control over the pace of the battle. You don't leave until he decides you can leave, and you don't get any closer to him than he decides to let you get. He has both the skill, and the patience, to demonstrate the true power of a valk. I think that both the prom and the valk need to be equally nerfed.
I would agree that the valk needs a nerf if every itani flew like Shape or Ghost...but we don't. They have an incredible mastery over the game that most of us only dream of. On the other hand, any Serco who earns his SCP automatically gets launched up a few tiers on the skill ladder, and poses a threat to people who have been playing much longer.
In my opinion, that is the part of the prom that needs nerfing. Not especially the fact that it is so good, but the fact that pretty much any n00b can become that good without skill in a few days of solid leveling.
In my opinion, that is the part of the prom that needs nerfing. Not especially the fact that it is so good, but the fact that pretty much any n00b can become that good without skill in a few days of solid leveling.
"In my opinion, that is the part of the prom that needs nerfing. Not especially the fact that it is so good, but the fact that pretty much any n00b can become that good without skill in a few days of solid leveling."
This is true. But while any new pilot can be deadly in a prom, it still takes practice to be good in one. The prom actually has a much more difficult learning curve once you master the basics. Also, this might be more in line with the backstory. It does say that Serco ships emphazize armor and firepower while Itani ships emphazize speed and pilot skill.
When I say pilot skill I don't mean that Itani are better pilots than Serco or anything like that. But a bad valk pilot will get eaten by an equally bad prom pilot. That's one of the Serco advantages. Once both pilots get a little better, it becomes a closer match. The prom still has an advantage in 1 on 1, that's undeniable. But it becomes less of an advantage as the skill of both pilots increases.
Like Roda said, everything really depends on who the pilots are in the battle and what configurations they're using, not so much on the ship itself. As soon as I put a flare on my valk, for example, I become much less effective simply because I've never been more than a mediocre flare user. Different prom configs have similar results. The devs have been talking about making more specific hard points on ships too. That will change a lot about balance if/when it comes.
And heh, I don't know if I dodge every flare and agt =) especially when it comes to proms. I still have quite a bit of difficulty with an SCP, but I believe that everyone should have a hard time taking one of those down. =)
This is true. But while any new pilot can be deadly in a prom, it still takes practice to be good in one. The prom actually has a much more difficult learning curve once you master the basics. Also, this might be more in line with the backstory. It does say that Serco ships emphazize armor and firepower while Itani ships emphazize speed and pilot skill.
When I say pilot skill I don't mean that Itani are better pilots than Serco or anything like that. But a bad valk pilot will get eaten by an equally bad prom pilot. That's one of the Serco advantages. Once both pilots get a little better, it becomes a closer match. The prom still has an advantage in 1 on 1, that's undeniable. But it becomes less of an advantage as the skill of both pilots increases.
Like Roda said, everything really depends on who the pilots are in the battle and what configurations they're using, not so much on the ship itself. As soon as I put a flare on my valk, for example, I become much less effective simply because I've never been more than a mediocre flare user. Different prom configs have similar results. The devs have been talking about making more specific hard points on ships too. That will change a lot about balance if/when it comes.
And heh, I don't know if I dodge every flare and agt =) especially when it comes to proms. I still have quite a bit of difficulty with an SCP, but I believe that everyone should have a hard time taking one of those down. =)
Considering that the Prom is such an unwieldy machine in terms of aiming, thanks to it's length and mediocre Spin Torque, I think an interesting buff to the Valk would be to increase it's turning powers. It's already a potato anyways, why not give it the edge to pull off orbits around those slower ships? The Valk would become the ultimate fighter for aiming, known universe wide for it's excellent responsiveness.
As a note, what I noticed about the Prom is that suddenly my 'skill level' almost doubled when I started using AGT instead of PlasDevs or MegaPosis. Gee.
As a note, what I noticed about the Prom is that suddenly my 'skill level' almost doubled when I started using AGT instead of PlasDevs or MegaPosis. Gee.
Heh, that's what happens when you use a gat turret in pretty much anything. The fix for that will come eventually with weapon specific ports. But I think taking the gat turret away from the prom would cripple it. I'm a big fan of the solution mentioned in another thread to give the gat turret ammo.
I'm not sure if the valk needs anymore buffs. I still say it should be shrunk just a little bit more, but with less of a potato shape its stats are fine IMHO.
I'm not sure if the valk needs anymore buffs. I still say it should be shrunk just a little bit more, but with less of a potato shape its stats are fine IMHO.
Fast as it is, giving it a 54/sec turbo drain like the Vult I could really make the Valk feel extra special, and it'd give *just* enough edge to chase down fleeing infiniboosters. Make this ship the Cavalry of the Itani fleet, instead of the slightly-quicker-to-battle-fighter, so to speak.