I'm glad someone would be willing to bring the valks performance more in line with other ships, in exchange for bringing it's profile to a more suitable level. Perhaps if we could get more support for this idea, we could reach a consensus.

Bojan: You called me an average prom pilot, and used that assumption as a basis to discredit my opinion. I have experience in all ship types, and I believe I have a very well rounded view of the big picture. Since you yourself are not an experienced prom pilot, I encourage you to gain such experience, in hopes you will better understand my assessment of the valk.

Trailox: Using a revenant against Matriarch's prom is ludicrous. I would expect it to be completely one sided. To simulate the challenge, pick a roid, name it after Matriarch, and ram it at full turbo.

Okay, yes a 5m/s drop in speed would be fine, but I still don't see why it's necessary. Why do we need to bring the valk in line with other ships when the prom is so out of line with any other ship in the game? Nobody's suggesting that a valk should take a prom 1 on 1. We just want it to be the best light fighter and it currently is not.

All the really great dogfighters have a turbo energy of 60. I will cry for weeks if valks get stuck with 60 turbo, but thats what I'll expect if you obsolete the other great fighters. I would not at all mind if a valk could take a prom 1v1, as long as it doesn't retain such a dramatic mobility option over the prom.

If you make a serious thread on the subject, I will support nerfing the prom, buffing the uit td/maud, or buffing the tpg Raptor.

Ok, I scared myself with the thought of 60 turbo valk. how about we change the profile, limit turbo to 220, and pick just one of the valks to make a turbo 60 super dogfighter.

NOOO!!!

Th only reason i flew a valk was its 240 topspeed "wich the ****** nerfed" no offence.

The valk was good for one thing and one thing only, "a great chaser" they just had to take that away didnt they.

As it is now, the maud is almost as good as the valk, please tell me of any ship in the game that is "almost" as good as the Prom

Thats why I said just pick one of the valks to make a turbo 60 super dogfighter, so we can still have at least one of the other valks as a pod racer. The valk line needed a little spread in abilities anyway, and this will allow valks to fill both roles, just not at the same time.

Norse: The tung taur is "almost" as good as a prom.

A taur is pawnd by a prom in 9 out of 10 times

I figure a tung taur to be about as close to a prom as a maud is to a valk. Perhaps, or perhaps not.

The point about valks is:
I get the 220 miniNerf,
you and I get to keep one of the valks as a 55 turbo chaser,
The pro buffers get one of the valks for a 60 turbo super fighter,
and we all get a slimmer profile valk.

I like this plan, and I would love to hear suggestions on how to improve it.

TRS, finally a reasonable post, I'm shocked and delighted both at once. A few questions though,

"you and I get to keep one of the valks as a 55 turbo chaser,
The pro buffers get one of the valks for a 60 turbo super fighter,"

what exactly do you mean by this? which ship gets to be a 55 turbo chaser, and which a 60 turbo super fighter? Please define the stats of both ships, does one get to stay at 225m/s?

I wouldn't mind loosing the 5m/s top speed, though I don't think it should be needed especially since it's already been cut from 240m/s :( But 5m/s doesn't seem like much of a big deal so for a better profile I don't think this is a very high price at all. However, with the turbo cut, how about throwing in a combat speed boost to 70 or 75 like the IBG and corvus vult? Would such an trade-off be at all to your liking?

"If you make a serious thread on the subject, I will support nerfing the prom, buffing the uit td/maud, or buffing the tpg Raptor."

All we're talking about here is slimming the profile of the valk. We're not suggesting a prom nerf and we all know damn well that the UIT need a better ship and the raptor sucks. But that's not what this thread is about.

Also, we're not making other great fighters obsolete with this change. Other fighters would be as obsolete as everything else is to a prom now. They would still be used for two reasons, significantly lower cost and higher availability.

"so we can still have at least one of the other valks as a pod racer"

We really need to ditch this idea of having a valk specifically for racing. It's a combat ship and should be designed accordingly.

"I figure a tung taur to be about as close to a prom as a maud is to a valk. Perhaps, or perhaps not.

The point about valks is:
I get the 220 miniNerf,
you and I get to keep one of the valks as a 55 turbo chaser,
The pro buffers get one of the valks for a 60 turbo super fighter,
and we all get a slimmer profile valk.

I like this plan, and I would love to hear suggestions on how to improve it."

The only thing I have against this plan is that you are the only one supporting your side while everyone else seems to want a slimmer profile while leaving the rest as it is. If it were "WE get this and you all get this" I'd be more apt to accept it instead of "I get this and you all get this". I don't think we should be balancing ships off of a single person's opinion, but a majority rule.

The valk is supposed to be faster than other ships the same way that the prom is supposed to be a tank. It's supposed to have superior mobility and it's supposed to be difficult to run fron. Why change this? One could say with the same reasoning that the prom has way more armor than other ships of its manuverability and size, so lets cut its armor in half. Sure, it would bring it in line with the rest of the ships, but then what's the point of having a high lvl ship that's supposed to be superior to the others of the same class when it isn't? Let the valk have its only advantage, its speed. It's only 5 m/s faster than most other fighters at the moment anyways.

Also, I'm not talking about buffing any of the valk stats, just slimming the profile. Slimming the profile would not make it a super fighter, just a little harder to hit. For clarification, we're not asking for a super slim, vulture-esque style profile. We just want a slight decrease so that it's not a giant potato.

However, I also beleive this whole thread to be moot, as I doubt that we'll actually see any of the suggested changed from either party.

It would appear that just about every one is in agreement that a profile adjustment is in order. I don't recall hearing any objections to this idea. If any does have an objection, this might be a good time to voice it.

Drazed: I believe your wanting to make the IDF your super fighter, and that looks suitable to me. Even with a nerf to 220@60, I would rather the valk be only just slightly superior to the other super fighters. I hesitate to support anything that might significantly decrease diversity.

Ghost: If you will review drazed's opening post, I hope you can understand my instant and complete terror that he might actually get what he asked for. I already consider the valk to be a problem, and drazed was building a monster (and I think he still will, if you let him). I respect that you may support a more conservative approach. But as long as others are voicing their concerns about perceived problems with the valk, it seams like a good time to voice mine.

I see it, and I'm also in disagreement with it the same as you. I think I misunderstood and thought you were replying to the progression of the thread and not the original post. Anyhow, it was your original post claiming that the valk is superior to the prom in group combat that launched us into this tangent I think.

Edit: That sounded really snippy and sarcastic, but I didn't intend it to be.

[quote]I've seen lots of talk about upgrading the valk. I was wondering what upgrades people think it should have?

I see in the wiki that the serco SkyProm is considerably better then the other Prom versions, whereas the IDF valk is only marginally better than the other versions.

I would vote for making the new IDF stats something like the following:

lvl requirements: 10/11/6/1/- and 990+ itani standing
armour: 12500
cargo: 0-3 cu ??? (I want 3, but I think it should be 0. An all out fighter should not have a cargo hold)
weapon ports: 3S
weight: 2750kg
trust: 240 N
spin torque: 9.0 Nm
combat speed: 70 m/s
turbo speed: 230 m/s
turbo energy: 55/s

This increases the armour by 1500 and adds to the thrust and speed, making it an ideal fighter :)

update: the price of the (new) IDF and SkyProm should be much higher (around 100k)???[/quote]

I've duplicated my first post for your convenience. First off,
"I've seen lots of talk about upgrading the valk. I was wondering what upgrades people think it should have?"
I opened with a questions, what do people think the stats should be? What followed was just a suggestion, and please note that my suggestion did not include a slimmer profile as I thought that would take forever at the current developtment rate. With a slimmer profile I'd likely be happy even with the current stats.

TRS: "I believe your wanting to make the IDF your super fighter, and that looks suitable to me. Even with a nerf to 220@60, I would rather the valk be only just slightly superior to the other super fighters. I hesitate to support anything that might significantly decrease diversity."

The valk was intended to be a super fighter to begin with, and it simply is not at the time! As for the diversity, the prom is a super heavy and people still use the other ships no?

Once again, my initail stat adjustment was just that, "initial". I wanted to see what other people though of the topic and expected my stats to be adjusted according to what everybody wants. Not what you want? Too bad!

upper case: I like the image, looks slimmer and meaner at the same time :) Anyone else that can draw want to submit some eye candy?

but spikes?.....

Could always remove the spikes and I'd still look cool. Though if you go back and read UC's original comment with this image you may understand why the spikes are there.

I think the spikes should do damage when ramming people :)

/me grabs a spiky valk with no weapons and goes out hunting

read back in this thread for the explanation of spikes.

TRS, why do you want the 225m/s speed reduced again? Do you think 5m/s is too much of a difference for the fastes fighter in the game? One last question, what is wrong with your brain?

Among TRS's annoying logic, (he acts like he's bargaining with a gypsy, or something) I think that the importance of an argument that he almost grasped was lost. Maybe someone needs to consider the repercussions of his writing style before he commits his thoughts to words. Oh wait, we all need that. Anyways, here's what he was trying to say.

The Valkerye is a very powerful fighter! I find it obscure that it would threaten to become the greatest light fighter in every aspect imaginable. It's my personal dream that this game achieves a level of balance where all ships have their strengths, and for every advantage gained, they gain an awkward disadvantage to maintain the delicate balance of combat, because VO is definately balanced in every single aspect possible. (*coughWRONGcough*) Furthermore, because of this delightful balance, changing the Valkerye so that it is more similar to the Itani Border Gaurdian would imply an equal change to every stat, so that the two ships are very identical. This also solves the issue of a frustrating imbalance players feel when facing off against a Prometheus. This is because the Itani Border Gaurdian is not only the better choice for facing such a ship, but also because it proves an adequate adversary for the Prom when piloted by an experienced pilot.

I'm unsure why TRS felt like leaving out the part about his firm belief that ships are already balanced as they are, or why implying that making the Valk equivalent to a freakin' Light Weapons level 2 ship would somehow make things better. Maybe he thought that he was being sneaky, but judging from several player's sardonic remarks about his thinking, I'm guessing that the only person fooled is TRS himself. The other possibility I could conceive of is that in his desire to see the Valkerye not buffed, he decided to act like an ass, so that we'd fail to see the brilliant logic that was implied by his arguments. Too bad I'm a bigger ass!

So, check it out. What the hell does a Valk need turboing for? 220 is plenty enough for a ship that spends most of it's time dog fighting. What it does need though, is plenty of maneuvering speed, 3 slots to fit weapons in, and everything else it has. The Itani Border Gaurdian, notably different by it's greater weight, and lack of an extra weapons port, that's the ship that would benefit from the extra little bit of turbo speed. That's the ship meant for racing, tactical reatreats, and stuff.

So, swap the turbo speeds and regular max speeds between the Valk and IBG. No, I'm not saying that's the only change that would occur, if this suggestion is indeed a liked one. The Devs know how to balance things right, maybe give the Valk an extra hundred kg here or there, or whatever. Maybe even take some off. Anyways, I just wonder what any decent Itani pilot thinks when he realizes that his ship is the best runner in the entire universe. Wewt, go Itan! Flee those Serco!

w00t, Valk has been buffed :)

please lock thread.