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Your the one trying to make a valk have all the strengths of every other fighter and more, with none of the handicaps.
If a IBG is so much better than a valk, why do you always fly a valk. Go fly a IBG. Your just trying to take your already favorite ship, and make it unbeatable. I don't want a game that is all valks or all proms. I like to see IBG and other ships be able to compete. If you have your way you will completely obsolete the IBG and who knows how many other fighters.
If a IBG is so much better than a valk, why do you always fly a valk. Go fly a IBG. Your just trying to take your already favorite ship, and make it unbeatable. I don't want a game that is all valks or all proms. I like to see IBG and other ships be able to compete. If you have your way you will completely obsolete the IBG and who knows how many other fighters.
The shape while not the most appealing visually, is fine as it is. It has weaknesses.
Don't compare it to the prom in a straight fight, cuz the prom has the sheer firepower of the AGT behind it. And I'm sorry, but there is no "exposing a flank" against a good set of Prom pilots. To expose a flank, you have to be under 150 m, otherwise, it doesn't matter what angle you're facing the Prom, you won't hit.
If you're under 150 m, then that means that you are in range of not 1 but 2 AGT's. as well as a crapload of flares.
And the funny part is, if the valks attempt to bring flares, the SCP's will strafe out of the way faster.
If you're under 150 m, then that means that you are in range of not 1 but 2 AGT's. as well as a crapload of flares.
And the funny part is, if the valks attempt to bring flares, the SCP's will strafe out of the way faster.
In the end shape, you may be right. But I don't know many prom pilots that are good about staying grouped. It usually only takes two good valk pilots to double team a prom. And they can then go from one prom to the next. Two prom pilots that stayed well grouped might could effectively counter this, but I don't see proms practice this. I do see valks double teaming proms. I see proms double teaming valks too, but unless they get a surprise attack, the valk almost always gets away. A prom that gets double teamed by two valks can not just up and run. He has to try and make the valks scatter to maybe give him an open door.
However, This thread is not really about valk vs prom. It is about buffing the valk. And I don't think it is fair to use the very best ships in the game to justify buffing the valk. I think even the valk rune is too overpowered, and I want all valks limited to 220, like all other ships. Even then it's ultralight weight, high thrust, and low turbo energy usage would still make it next to imposable to corner in a fight. If the prom, IBG, etc, need nerfs, then lets just say that. But I'm tired of seeing a large portion of other ships getting left in the cold by the prom/valk arms race.
I would rather have a cool looking, flat, hard to hit valk, with a top speed of 220 and a weight starting in the range of 4k, than what we have now.
However, This thread is not really about valk vs prom. It is about buffing the valk. And I don't think it is fair to use the very best ships in the game to justify buffing the valk. I think even the valk rune is too overpowered, and I want all valks limited to 220, like all other ships. Even then it's ultralight weight, high thrust, and low turbo energy usage would still make it next to imposable to corner in a fight. If the prom, IBG, etc, need nerfs, then lets just say that. But I'm tired of seeing a large portion of other ships getting left in the cold by the prom/valk arms race.
I would rather have a cool looking, flat, hard to hit valk, with a top speed of 220 and a weight starting in the range of 4k, than what we have now.
Until I ever see the 'average online-Valk to online-Prom' ratio drop below a Bazillion:1, I see no need to buff or nerf either.
It's on it's way to the bazillion:1, right now we are at 1 000 028:1 and counting :P
Sometimes I wish there were enough vo players to make such a ration possible. Other times I'm glad there isn't ;p
I always throught that the Valk was a bit BIG. Didn't anyone else?
I would like the POTATO to be more potato chippy!
I would like the POTATO to be more potato chippy!
Shape is right, there is no way a valk should be turning a flank on a prom from outisde 150m. I'm not saying the valk needs a buff, I would like to see its profile slimmed. Also, it may be true that there aren't many prom pilots around who stay together efficiently, in fact I believe it is true. But you can't say that the valk needs to be debuffed because there aren't many prom pilots that work together well. You have to learn to fly together, not individually. Be just as aware of where your wingman is as where your enemy is. Proms are more than capable of taking on an equal number of valks in a group battle. Just because specific pilots might not be able to doesn't mean that the ship itself can't.
The reason people would like to see a valk buff is because it is advertised (and lvls support this) as the best light fighter in the game. This is currently a false statement. Lowering the valk's turbo speed would remove its only advantage. Yes, it's light and has 3 ports, but it does not handle weight the best. The more you load those ports with, the greater loss of acceleration you'll find. This is contrary to the prom where you can load it as heavy or as light as you want and will find very little difference. Again, I'm not asking for a buff or anything of the like, just a slimmer profile to help compensate.
The IBG should not be nerfed more than it has been, it's much easier to hit after the size increase, especially with flares. Also, not everything can be thought of in comabt speed. Levels determine how well a ship fits its role, not necessarily how good overall it is. So a rag is not comparable to an IBG. However, if there were a lower lvl heavy bomber ship that required less levels, that would be an equal comparison to the valk and IBG. Rags are a different class of fighter while IBG's and Valks are the same class. What is the point of having a much higher level ship in the same class that really is only equal to if not worse than the low lvl ship?
My suggestion a while ago was to decrease the size of the IBG back to when it was really tiny and give it back its original thrust. But then switch it in terms of lvls with the valkyrie. Make the valk a low lvl ship (maybe 5/6/5/x/x) and make the IBG a high lvl ship (9/10/8/x/x or something of the like). Then at least the higher lvl ship would be clearly superior, but there would still be reason to use a valk at times, mainly due to it's turbo mobility.
The reason people would like to see a valk buff is because it is advertised (and lvls support this) as the best light fighter in the game. This is currently a false statement. Lowering the valk's turbo speed would remove its only advantage. Yes, it's light and has 3 ports, but it does not handle weight the best. The more you load those ports with, the greater loss of acceleration you'll find. This is contrary to the prom where you can load it as heavy or as light as you want and will find very little difference. Again, I'm not asking for a buff or anything of the like, just a slimmer profile to help compensate.
The IBG should not be nerfed more than it has been, it's much easier to hit after the size increase, especially with flares. Also, not everything can be thought of in comabt speed. Levels determine how well a ship fits its role, not necessarily how good overall it is. So a rag is not comparable to an IBG. However, if there were a lower lvl heavy bomber ship that required less levels, that would be an equal comparison to the valk and IBG. Rags are a different class of fighter while IBG's and Valks are the same class. What is the point of having a much higher level ship in the same class that really is only equal to if not worse than the low lvl ship?
My suggestion a while ago was to decrease the size of the IBG back to when it was really tiny and give it back its original thrust. But then switch it in terms of lvls with the valkyrie. Make the valk a low lvl ship (maybe 5/6/5/x/x) and make the IBG a high lvl ship (9/10/8/x/x or something of the like). Then at least the higher lvl ship would be clearly superior, but there would still be reason to use a valk at times, mainly due to it's turbo mobility.
I think the Valk should just live up to it's name. It should be a fighter not a runner.
The point I made before was that if overall equally skilled pilots got into a battle (not necessarily a circle dance) the Itani Border Guardian would prevail more than 5 times out of 10.
Now, as you may have noticed, the combat levels are a big difference. Why do we have combat levels, if not to somewhat seperate the slower less-able ships, from the faster, more able ships? In other words, the Combat Level should have some indication as to whether the ship is generally better.
So Our Only Options Are:
1) Lower the Valks requirement levels (b/c they are currently not worth it),
2) Slim the Valk's Bulky Round wings,
3) Increase the required levels for the IBG,
4)OR Nerf ALL Ships but the Valk(obviously it's stupid, but would be the same as buffing th Valk)
5) Decrease the overall size of the Valk, Perhaps by 30%.
The point I made before was that if overall equally skilled pilots got into a battle (not necessarily a circle dance) the Itani Border Guardian would prevail more than 5 times out of 10.
Now, as you may have noticed, the combat levels are a big difference. Why do we have combat levels, if not to somewhat seperate the slower less-able ships, from the faster, more able ships? In other words, the Combat Level should have some indication as to whether the ship is generally better.
So Our Only Options Are:
1) Lower the Valks requirement levels (b/c they are currently not worth it),
2) Slim the Valk's Bulky Round wings,
3) Increase the required levels for the IBG,
4)OR Nerf ALL Ships but the Valk(obviously it's stupid, but would be the same as buffing th Valk)
5) Decrease the overall size of the Valk, Perhaps by 30%.
Every one keeps comparing the valk to the IBG, and as I said, if you want to chop off the extra port and increase the turbo energy, this might be a fair comparison. Grab a Valk, put TWO aap on it, and go fight an aap IBG. if your great in the aap IBG, you'll be great in the aap valk. An aap valk can compete with an aap IBG, but a valk has better armor and turbo energy. It isn't my fault if you load your valk with suns, any more than it would be your fault if I loaded my IBG with rail4s. The point is the valk has more options. I don't even care if a valk can't stand up to a IBG, in the IBG's strongest role. The IBG can't hold a candle to many of the roles the valk fills. If you want a valk to beat an IBG, in the IBG strongest role, then make the valk limited to the same roles the IBG is.
It isn't always about levels. an IBG is like 2/1/-/-/-, but it can beat a 3/3/-/-/- vult3. Why isn't any one crying to buf the vult.
Everyone knows that drazed is glued to his valk, and I don't like to hear about when someones favorite love can't fill every role the best. If your going to fill more roles, learn more ships.
It isn't always about levels. an IBG is like 2/1/-/-/-, but it can beat a 3/3/-/-/- vult3. Why isn't any one crying to buf the vult.
Everyone knows that drazed is glued to his valk, and I don't like to hear about when someones favorite love can't fill every role the best. If your going to fill more roles, learn more ships.
Ok, so TRS, your argument is that the IBG and Valk shouldn't be compared...but a valk has better armor and turbo energy.
Why then did you fail to mention how utterly FAT your precious Valkyrie is?
The IBG can't hold a candle to many of the roles the valk fills.
AHHHEMM, Roles? What Roles?
OH YOU MEAN ROLLS!
Yea I guess your right about that...
If you meant that because the Valk has an additional weapon slot (which makes it less manueverable when equipping 3 weapons) then you're dead wrong.
I can see four possible fighting roles for a Valk(IDF): Two Sun-flares and AAP, and AAP with a Sun-flare, Sun-flares with a Neut or lawgun, and AAP with a neut or lawgun.
If overall equally skilled pilots got into a battle (not necessarily a circle dance) the Itani Border Guardian would prevail more than 5 times out of 10.
Don't make me use a hammer.
Why then did you fail to mention how utterly FAT your precious Valkyrie is?
The IBG can't hold a candle to many of the roles the valk fills.
AHHHEMM, Roles? What Roles?
OH YOU MEAN ROLLS!
Yea I guess your right about that...
If you meant that because the Valk has an additional weapon slot (which makes it less manueverable when equipping 3 weapons) then you're dead wrong.
I can see four possible fighting roles for a Valk(IDF): Two Sun-flares and AAP, and AAP with a Sun-flare, Sun-flares with a Neut or lawgun, and AAP with a neut or lawgun.
If overall equally skilled pilots got into a battle (not necessarily a circle dance) the Itani Border Guardian would prevail more than 5 times out of 10.
Don't make me use a hammer.
If both pilots are equally skilled, why would we care about the level requirements of the ships?
Just for the mechanics of the game. If you can get the best ship at lvl 2, there's no reason to have any higher lvls.
Also, again I don't mean any insult. I've been flying valks and IBGs for a long time. Claiming that a dual aap valk and a dual aap IBG will be equal is just false. The IBG will tear the valk apart 9 times out of 10 without question. I'm not suggesting that the valk be good at everything, just better at what it's supposed to do well. I've spent a great deal of time trying different valk combos and comparing them to the effectiveness of the IBG in a variety of situations. More often than not the IBG is superior. Now this would be fine if the valk wasn't supposed to be the best light fighter. If the IBG were the higher lvl ship, there wouldn't be much of an issue. The reason people compare the IBG to the Valk is because they do in fact share the same role. They're both light combat fighters. The valk should not be good at everything, but it should unquestionably be the best light fighter in the same way that the prom is the best heavy assault ship. In group combat, the valk's only advantage, and I do mean only, is it's mobility. It has the ability to engage and disengage quickly. Without this ability, it would be fodder. I would also like to point out though, that the IBG has the exact same ability.
As for the vult vs. IBG, people aren't crying to buff the vult because the vult is not advertised as the best light fighter. The IBG is also a faction specific ship while the vult MkIII is a generic fighter. Try comparing a corvus vult to an IBG and you will have a very even fight. The vult actually has less weaknesses than the valk does anyways. The valk should not fill every role, but it should be better able to fill the role that it is meant for.
Again, this could be solved by putting the IBG back to its original size and pre-nerf thrust, and then making it a very high level ship while making the valk a mediocre level ship. Either that or slim the valk a bit.
Also, again I don't mean any insult. I've been flying valks and IBGs for a long time. Claiming that a dual aap valk and a dual aap IBG will be equal is just false. The IBG will tear the valk apart 9 times out of 10 without question. I'm not suggesting that the valk be good at everything, just better at what it's supposed to do well. I've spent a great deal of time trying different valk combos and comparing them to the effectiveness of the IBG in a variety of situations. More often than not the IBG is superior. Now this would be fine if the valk wasn't supposed to be the best light fighter. If the IBG were the higher lvl ship, there wouldn't be much of an issue. The reason people compare the IBG to the Valk is because they do in fact share the same role. They're both light combat fighters. The valk should not be good at everything, but it should unquestionably be the best light fighter in the same way that the prom is the best heavy assault ship. In group combat, the valk's only advantage, and I do mean only, is it's mobility. It has the ability to engage and disengage quickly. Without this ability, it would be fodder. I would also like to point out though, that the IBG has the exact same ability.
As for the vult vs. IBG, people aren't crying to buff the vult because the vult is not advertised as the best light fighter. The IBG is also a faction specific ship while the vult MkIII is a generic fighter. Try comparing a corvus vult to an IBG and you will have a very even fight. The vult actually has less weaknesses than the valk does anyways. The valk should not fill every role, but it should be better able to fill the role that it is meant for.
Again, this could be solved by putting the IBG back to its original size and pre-nerf thrust, and then making it a very high level ship while making the valk a mediocre level ship. Either that or slim the valk a bit.
Ummm arhmmm all this talk about buffing Valk and nerfing something. lets put it this way. if u cant fly a ship you cant fly period. i for one love to solo a scp and a valk. a good pilot can take out either one of those ship in any other ship. if you arent a good pilot practic practice practice i dont need a prom or a valk to fight a scp or vice versa. ill just fly my damn revenant and pop both of those ships. yes a prom is a powerhouse and yes a valk is a speed demon. dont get me wrong i understand all ur arguements on valks and prom. ever wonder what a UIT has? a lousy maud give UIT something seriously. yes I know you are going to say UIT has the favor of flying either a prom and valk same does for any other nation tbh. you have the tpg raptor great design and engine sound thats about it. feed that ship to the space cows that ship needs a nerfing better yet just kill the missions for it because seriously that ship is not even worth doing the mission for. put that damn engine to better use give it to the prom the sound on that engine is sweet and on a prom it would be much better i would say valk but valk is fast it shouldnt have a heavy engine sound that sound would be better off with a prom.
*cough* the IBG is better than the vult? I'd take an SVG or Vulturious out over an IBG anyday.
Trailox, please take your revenant out and own my prom. I would love it, cuz it would show me something that I've never been able to do.
"Good enough" doesn't really fix the equation. Its "bad enough" that does it.
If someone is "bad enough" they will lose to your revenant in an SCP. But if you take someone who hasn't let themselves get lulled into complacency by the insanity of the prom combo, they can destroy you.
Trailox, please take your revenant out and own my prom. I would love it, cuz it would show me something that I've never been able to do.
"Good enough" doesn't really fix the equation. Its "bad enough" that does it.
If someone is "bad enough" they will lose to your revenant in an SCP. But if you take someone who hasn't let themselves get lulled into complacency by the insanity of the prom combo, they can destroy you.
Can we end this nonsense?
This thread got way out of its original intent.
Imho a suggestion to change valk shape and/or buff its stats is valid.
Any small buff wont change the fact that valks will still be eaten by SCPs in 1 vs 1 but it will put her in the class of top light fighter ships in VO where it should belong.
@TRS: you hijacked this thread with no sound reason except your vanity. Ok you have alts and you use proms and valks. Your prom gets blasted in multis by valks not because valks are uber but because yr an average prom pilot. Live with it or learn to use prom like Matriarch. We dont need to nerf valks just because you cant handle them in your SCP.
This thread got way out of its original intent.
Imho a suggestion to change valk shape and/or buff its stats is valid.
Any small buff wont change the fact that valks will still be eaten by SCPs in 1 vs 1 but it will put her in the class of top light fighter ships in VO where it should belong.
@TRS: you hijacked this thread with no sound reason except your vanity. Ok you have alts and you use proms and valks. Your prom gets blasted in multis by valks not because valks are uber but because yr an average prom pilot. Live with it or learn to use prom like Matriarch. We dont need to nerf valks just because you cant handle them in your SCP.
I agree with changing the shape. It should have a smaller frontal profile (so should most other ships, but i digress). If you want to make the valk as flat as a vult, I'm for it. I can live with the valk being a great dogfighter. I just want to at least reduce it's top speed to 220. Wouldn't you gladly live with a top speed of 220 for a much flatter valk?
note1: Trailox? I'm sorry, but your performance on the battlefield fails to match your claims. Please excuse yourself from this thread.
note2: bojan? I believe you assume too much. I believe ghost is quite better than I in a light fighter, and that Matriarch is a significantly better pilot than I. However, it is by no means completely one sided, and I have had the honor of defeating Matriarch prom to prom in a fair fight. If you are a better prom pilot than Matriarch, then let me apologized in advance for doubting your evaluation of my skill.
note1: Trailox? I'm sorry, but your performance on the battlefield fails to match your claims. Please excuse yourself from this thread.
note2: bojan? I believe you assume too much. I believe ghost is quite better than I in a light fighter, and that Matriarch is a significantly better pilot than I. However, it is by no means completely one sided, and I have had the honor of defeating Matriarch prom to prom in a fair fight. If you are a better prom pilot than Matriarch, then let me apologized in advance for doubting your evaluation of my skill.
note1: Trailox? I'm sorry, but your performance on the battlefield fails to match your claims. Please excuse yourself from this thread.
Just to wonder who u might be. my performance on the battlefield makes me wonder on what you mean by that. what that I know how to keep a distance is that it? its like how many people say oh swarming is takes skill running and flaring takes skills So what keeping a distance doesnt?
So Mr or Mrs TRS whoever you are let me know. I do have problems fighting Vults and cents I have admitted that But im still practicing that. By the sounds of ur comments reminds me of one person is RODA >.>
oh and shape ill take you up on that offer :)
Just to wonder who u might be. my performance on the battlefield makes me wonder on what you mean by that. what that I know how to keep a distance is that it? its like how many people say oh swarming is takes skill running and flaring takes skills So what keeping a distance doesnt?
So Mr or Mrs TRS whoever you are let me know. I do have problems fighting Vults and cents I have admitted that But im still practicing that. By the sounds of ur comments reminds me of one person is RODA >.>
oh and shape ill take you up on that offer :)
1.
Speed reduction from 225 to 220 is nothing, i would gladly sacrifice 5 ms speed for a slimmer profile.
2.
Nothing is ever one sided. As I said numerous times, there is always someone better then you in VO. It was not my intention to evaluate your skill. I was merely puzzled that you continued with your "valk is uber it needs to get nerfed" argument and assumed you have some first hand knowledge of dying in your SCP to valks.
Your reference to prom vs prom fight with Matriarch is quite unimportant for this thread, only good for showing off your ego.
3.
I dont even know how to fly or use prom since all of my chars are non serco and have -1000 serco standing. I fought a lot of proms in all kind of ships, from centaurs, wraiths, atlases to valks and IBGs. I won some, lost some and by my expirience, compared to any other ship in VO, proms are still uber.
4.
I also fought a lot of different VO ships in my valk and from my expirience corvus vult, SVG, rev c & IBG eat most of valk layouts for breakfast. Of course it depends on your opponents skill but if you are facing a very skilled light fighter in your valk who knows how to dodge flares that you might have, you are toast.
Speed reduction from 225 to 220 is nothing, i would gladly sacrifice 5 ms speed for a slimmer profile.
2.
Nothing is ever one sided. As I said numerous times, there is always someone better then you in VO. It was not my intention to evaluate your skill. I was merely puzzled that you continued with your "valk is uber it needs to get nerfed" argument and assumed you have some first hand knowledge of dying in your SCP to valks.
Your reference to prom vs prom fight with Matriarch is quite unimportant for this thread, only good for showing off your ego.
3.
I dont even know how to fly or use prom since all of my chars are non serco and have -1000 serco standing. I fought a lot of proms in all kind of ships, from centaurs, wraiths, atlases to valks and IBGs. I won some, lost some and by my expirience, compared to any other ship in VO, proms are still uber.
4.
I also fought a lot of different VO ships in my valk and from my expirience corvus vult, SVG, rev c & IBG eat most of valk layouts for breakfast. Of course it depends on your opponents skill but if you are facing a very skilled light fighter in your valk who knows how to dodge flares that you might have, you are toast.