TRS, sounds like a plan to me.

Can we get availability confirmation from Matriarch and Ghost for a valk/prom test?

Can I suggest flying it one way with the same pilots, and then having said pilots switch sides and play it the opposite way?

That is, if TRS has a Serco char that can put on a Prom. I think the rest of 'yas can switch sides without too much trouble, eh?

I have both IDFs and SCPs by the hundreds, yeah. Interesting idea, Lebicon. Not sure about Ghost, though...

I am generally available evenings and weekends, and sometimes late night. Dec 12 is reserved for a prior engagement. I suggest we conduct the event in Deneb, for availability of equipment. I can fly a valk and a prom.

On a side note: I agree with many of you that the IBG and Rev-C also need some serious nerfs. My valk normally destroys all other light fighters, including IBG and Rev-C, but I agree that they too are overpowered. However, I doubt that I have the required skill to prove the IBG's true strength in combat, and I will not be accepting any challenges for/against IBG.

Just stop. Stop nerfing. Yes, make the valk harder to hit, and make it lighter. But for heaven's sake stop nerfing.

Some ships are useless now because they didn't have the sense to duck when the nerf stick came their way. *coughWTDcough*

haha, someone just forwarded me to this thread.

The Valks don't stand a chance. Honestly? the Valk may have some ability when it comes to escort runs, but in a straight fight? Proms are god.

As Matriarch, I'll step in for that test. Gimme a time, preferably after 7 PST

Jim Kirk said:
3: The IBG is a better all-around fighter (plus it's minus a weapon slot) (A Combat 3 ship shouldn't even be able to take a combat 8 ship).
The IBG might be a better all-round fighter (although I'd be inclined to disagree), but there's no way that a ship with lower level requirements should not be able to defeat one with higher ones. Just no. That goes against everything I think this game is aiming for.

As for how the valk is supposed to be used, according to yours truly:
Hit-and-run tactics. The valk is not meant for prolonged duels, never was. Earlier on (much, much earlier), it could compensate with its irrationally high acceleration and the fact that ramming did not cause double damage. This is not to say that everyone rammed, at least not intentionally, but it just happened.

i think i'm a good juge as to the prowess and lameness of proms and valks.

when i played as mogul velaio, there was a time when he adored flying proms and skyproms. i was, then, in the lew end of the medium pilot spectrum and, while i'd get eaten alive most of the time in valks, i made the most of my pks in skyproms.

i made so much destruction in those (including two 1-1 shape kills) that it actually became boring. mogul eventually tanked his serco standing and resumed flying "normal" ships. i started to learn flying at that time. really.

now, after the ridiculous dwarf of the valk and the very light (and generous) dwarfing of the sky prom, i realize that i'm way more lethal in vults than i am in valks and that while i can tackle, 1-1, an average sky prom pilots in a valk, the moment i face a sky prom pilot whom i evaluate to be about at my level (i evaluate myself higher of the medium spectrum), my valk gets eaten alive in no time. in those situations, i usually last longer in vultures.

though i insist on flying valks because of what the ship is supposed to be, and in hope that by the time the VALK IS FIXED (because it must, damnit), then maybe i'll have gained some measly advantage and up my skills a bit.

Addendum: I'd like to see the "increased hold" Prometheus get its infinite turbo back. Otherwise, there's no point to having an increased hold variant. Of course, the Rune should, too, perhaps along with a (very slight) decrease in acceleration and/or top speed? I'm not looking for balance. I'm looking for roles.

Agreed, toshiro. Ships should be mostly about ROLES, not balance.

Half the ships in this game have no ROLE because they are outclassed by some other type of ship that performs its ROLE better.

Hrm, what "ARE" the roles of ships in VO?

1. Mining & Prospecting - centaur
2. Mining Only - behemoth
3. Trading - behemoth
4. Energy fighter - vult or cent, depending on faction & levels
5. Rocket (flares) fighter - valk
6. Tank - prometheus
7. "Fire and Forget" swarming - ragnarok

Any roles I forgot? That's 7 ships.

For #5, the Marauder is pretty good for that. Especially either of the TPG Marauders.

Edit: Wow, this is a long post.

TRS, while I respect your opinion, I have to disagree. The valk is in no way close to overpowered and Proms are VERY effective in group combat. The only reason a group of proms should loose to a group of valks is if they let them split them up. This is the main reason why proms fall quickly in the nation wars (apart from everyone attacking them first). If you're in a prom group, you have to stay very close to your other proms. If you all stay within 600m, even just 2 proms can cover eachother incredibly effectively. It requires tactics though, you can't just charge in guns blazing. Communicate with your wingmen and keep switching your targets to the closest ones while staying near your other proms. Yes, valks have a huge speed advantage, but they have to get close to you in order to kill you. And when they get close, you should be ready with that agt because it will eat any valk alive. Just don't chase the valks, it's as simple as that. You shouldn't even touch your turbo button. They have to come back to you if they want to kill you anyways. Besides, you're not going to catch a valk in a prom, so just stay with your wingmen and cover eachother. It was Shape that said, "if you're getting hit outside of 150m, you're doing something wrong." This holds true for the prom as well as every other ship excepting maybe the rag and behemoth.

The reason you may think that proms don't fare well in group combat are because the pilots you're watching haven't been working together. It's not easy to stay close, but neither is killing a prom in a valk. Just keep your calm, and stay in relatively the same area. Don't get drawn away from your wingmen. You can't fly a prom like a valk and expect to have the mobility to survive by yourself in a group fight. They're different ships. For the record, I have flown a prom in many a group battle, and average about 3-5 (sometimes 6 depending on the opponents) PK's before I die.

A nerf to the Cents is unnecessary. Rev C is inferior to the corvus vult. IBG is still good but nowhere near unbalanced since the size increase. It's a very high risk, high reward ship. If you fly it well, you'll win most of the time. But if you make 1 mistake, it'll usually cost you the fight.

I think that part of the problem is that there are very few excellent prom pilots left (no offense to anyone). Amarus was near unbeatable in a prom back when they were flying bricks that could bearly move... and he didn't even use an AGT. UncleDave was very good as well. This was because they knew the advantages of the prom and used them as best they could during a fight. The strafing power is unmatched, so aim and dodge by using strafes as much as possible and as little turning as possible. If you ever fight Matriarch, you'll notice you rarely ever see the top/bottom/side of his ship. That's because he hardly ever turns it, he knows it risks overcompensating. So he relies on his strafes which more than do the job on a prom. Also, these 3 prom pilots almost NEVER turbo after their opponents. They stay patient and know that when out of range, he's just as safe as his opponent. So they just keep thrusting in under normal speed and wait for their prey to come back to them instead of recklessly throwing themselves after it.

Just to clear this up, I'm not suggesting a prom nerf. Proms are very deadly, as they should be, and nearly unbeatable when flown by a good pilot in 1 on 1 combat. But like any ship, you can't just charge into a group fight without any tactics. Suggesting a buff for the prom to take away its only weakness would seriously break this game. There would be no reason for anyone to fly anything except a prom.

As for the suggested fight, the valks would lose without a doubt. The only way that fight might be close is if I could have Niki on my wing (no offense to you) and we were both in IBG's. And even then the proms would still be favored.

5 proms vs. 5 valks in a fight where the valks are able to split up and gank the proms 1 by 1 = Valks win.

5 proms vs. 5 valks in a fight where the proms stick together, don't chase the valks and cover eachother = Proms win with maybe 1 or 2 losses.

Back on topic, valks are not overpowered. They're quite the opposite. A valk is about even with a corvus vult or IBG in a straight fight. 2 pilots of close to equal skill will go back and forth in such a duel. The size increase of the IBG makes it much more vulnerable to rockets, otherwise I would say it is vastly superior to the valk. As for group combat, yes the valk is fast. But again, it has to get close to kill you. It can't do any damage to you when it's running away. So keep your eyes on your radar, be aware of the situation, and when it comes back in range to blast you, turn and fire at the giant potato. This is the reason I say the valk should have its size decreased. It's supposed to be the best light fighter, and it just isn't.

I say tomorrow evening around 11pm EST. Would that work for Ghost, Matriarch, and TRS?

"As for the suggested fight, the valks would lose without a doubt. The only way that fight might be close is if I could have Niki on my wing (no offense to you) and we were both in IBG's. And even then the proms would still be favored."

My subscription is currently out anyways and I don't plan on resubscribing for a while, but I have no doubt that the proms would win.

AGT and flares are effective enough against valks when used separately, let alone together. The only reason people don't use AGT/Flare proms all the time is because they get tired of killing things too easily. If I fight a prom with anything other than AGT/Flare, I know he's taking it easy on me or trying to have some more fun for the sport of it.

I think an even number of valks can force a group of proms to have to choose between being split up, or leaving a flank exposed. Either event of which the valks can then exploit.

Without a player of appropriate skill to counter Matriarch, the test would be flawed. And in fact, I don't know that there are enough sufficiently skilled pilots available to properly demonstrate my point about valks vs proms. We all know that the less skill the players involved, the greater the advantage of the prom.

The prom issue completely aside:

The IBG is a state of the art ship, and should always be a major contender in it's primary role. I need a lot of trade levels for a moth, but I don't expect a moth to be able to outrun an atlas. It isn't always about levels. I don't think you should expect a valk to obsolete an IBG.

I think all valk's top speed should be capped at 220, just for starters. Perhaps then it might be allowed back in the deneb run.

"I need a lot of trade levels for a moth, but I don't expect a moth to be able to outrun an atlas."

The moth is a trade ship, and the best in the game at that. How many atlas-fulls of cargo can a moth carry? You don't need any combat lvls for a moth, it's not supposed to run it's supposed to carry alot of cargo and it does it job very well.

The valk is a fighter, and requires alot more lvl's than any other fighter in the game. Thus it should be a better fighter than the others, right now it has the biggest frontal profile of the fighter class and a lower combat speed than the IBG, RevC, or corvus vult.

I think SKV has a few Valk pilots of comparable skill... any takers?

I never ever managed to shoot down Matriarchs SCP in a 1 vs 1.
In a mass furballs i did it a few times but then he usually had like 3 of us on him.
Sadly i cant say i am up for that task. Maybe Niki...

You want to turn the valk into a better IBG, fine by me. Just reduce it's profile to match the IBG, and give it combat speed 70. It is already as light as an IBG. And it has better thrust and armor. That should make it out fight an IBG. Just don't forget to chop off the extra small port, reduce it's turbo speed to 220, and increase it's turbo energy to 60. It should still beat IBG. I could live with those changes.

BTW, a rag requires more levels than an IBG. Shouldn't it have a combat speed of 70 also? Oh wait... A vult3 requires more levels too...

edit: I wouldn't normally try to take Matriarch's SCP singlehandedly with a valk. Even prom to prom I would only give myself about 1 in 4 chance to beat him head to head. He would really skew the combat results.

TRS, are you logically impaired? A rag is a heavy bomber, it should not have the speed of a fighter. You are the only one on this thread thus far that thinks the valk doesn't need an upgrade.

Quick question for you, are you a marketing student? Cause if you are I can forgive you for this being so silly.

By your logic we should just throw out all the ships and all fly around in gov busses....