You know, I love the valk, I have to admit it. It's fast, I get my 8 cu, and my 2 neut III's, and while I think it is an even match for a vult guardian in a strictly duel environment, It's ability maneuver across the field of battle and engage other ships is its number 1 quality, imho.

I could care less about the armor, (valks get hit pretty easily when you corner them, same size as a wraith). And every duel I've gotten into against another valk, generally hasn't lasted long, you get the angle, BOOM.

If the Valk must be tweaked, fine; Everything is this game needs a bit of tweaking. But I think it should be noted that right now the best weapon in the game is uniquely suited for what is a very good ship. (I also would like to remark with disdain the implied statements that Itani pilots cant hack it and are only keeping up cuz they have a good ship, we draw from the same player base guys)

Suppose flares were REALLY useable again? Would Icarus be so frustrated with the valk? atm there is a lack of options and associated strategies, strategies that might be able to counterract a pure speed type fight.

Summing up: The Neut III is a bad, bad idea, imo. (And currently having it alternate like it does doesn't fix anything, everybody stockpiles with the exception of the poor UIT pilots). And the Valk is the best platform for that weapon.

shape, the valk should have a tradeoff for all that speed, at present it has none.

The prom has very low agility in exchange for its L-port weapon and heavy hull.

The valk should have lower armor to compensate for its agility.

the armor makes a huge difference. I have had pilots TURBO UP TO MY PROM in a valk in order to get close. I do damage to them the whole way in, but once they get inside of 100m i cant turn fast enough to track them. at 50% health they take no further hits the entire combat, and win. I dont mind the valk being able to dodge around the prom up close, but it should take some skill to get in close enough to do so, not "press the turbo button and let the armor do it"

? can kill my prom without taking a hit, it takes him time and effort to get in close tho.

The Valk Rune has 8cu. The Serco Vulture Guardian, it's nearest "competitor" only has 2cu of cargo space.

And don't forget that the Prom's maneuverability is far too low for its mass. Even unloaded, it's slower than a fully armed hog weighing 2000kg more than it.

The way I see it, the Prom could fill one of two roles: it's a better Warthog (prom's 2s and 1l as opposed to the hog's 1s and 1l), or a better Ragnarok (skycommand prom's 20000 armor and 6200kg as opposed to the rag III's 19000 armor and 12000kg). Unfortunately it does neither job well because while it's only slightly heavier with heavier weaponry than the Warthog IV (5600kg), it's not nearly maneuverable or fast enough to keep up. And it can't replace the Ragnarok III because while it's fairly comperable in armor, it's weapons are a full small port and large port lighter and can't deal the damage to compensate for not being able to turn.

It's kinda silly, but even though the Prom's small gunports look cool, they're so spread apart that it's difficult to hit even bots with them.

The Valk needs to be balanced some, and the Prom needs to be balanced a lot. The Marauder probably is the only special ship that doesn't really need all that much balancing.

On a related note: I looked at the CtC page and out of the top 15 Itani pilots, about 8-10 fly some version of the Valkyrie. Out of the top 15 Serco pilots, only about 2 or 3 fly Valkyries. On top of that, more Serco pilots fly the Marauder (1, by my count) than they fly the Prometheus (none regularly). This means that most Serco pilots fly the Vulture Guardian - good for combat, but unsuitable for carrying cargo, or some variant of the Warthog - good for combat, can carry the cargo, but is very slow in comparison to the Valk.

Shape, of course I am frustrated that rockets are so useless at the moment, but even if they were lighter or did more damage the valk would still rule everything regardless as it would go back to its tr-flare config once again. The weapons balance is a seperate issue.

I agree with Icarus, could make Tertiorflares the weight would be
of 250kg and the damage of 1400. I s does not put in sugestion,
because it is urgent and necessary to modify the weight of the
sunflares or to create others of them. if you have not the time, I can
do them, and I will resell them has Icarus for 150k each; buisnesst is buisness.
Nota Bene : It's not a Tertior joke , of course.
Sorry for my accent but i 'm a gipsy...not the acid queen obviously
Banzaiiiii

It should be available in more than itani space, period, like corvus at admire, that would be near impossible for me to do as i hate trade also, but do itani loose valk because they CTC? I DO.

And Icarus, get back in the SAF... Its a guild where people who know each other can talk, if nothing else... (until we get nation chat back..)

I don't know. I killed Icarus and he killed me ina lil fight today. Me in a Prom MKII with dual sunflare and GT, Icarus in Vult Guard with 2 Neut3's i believe. Now, if it were Prom SkyCommand and IDF Valk, it can't be too much of a difference.

What's in YOUR Prom, Spellcast?

I was carrying nation cargo adding an extra 1k of weight to my craft(!), and you basically killed the both of us with your careless dual flare ram at the end... If you were in a valk I wouldn't have landed a hit on you. You did remarkably well as a heavy ship pilot though, considring it was your first time trying it, you managed to dodge virtually all the sunflares, and keep me targetted with the AGT...

Now back to the Valk and its Agility;

I had a succession of duels with Spider earlier and our thoughts were confirmed... (Also please remember that I absolutely suck shit with using energy weapons, and usually can't hit anything);

In these duels Spider used a Maud with dual Neut3's each time, and I used a Serco Guardian Vulture;

1st Duel;
Setup:- 1 x Sunflare (+1200kg), 1 NeutIII (+200kg)
Outcome:- Fairly evenly matched, only got a couple of hits with a Sunflare, and both of us got some good hits with the Neut3s. Spider managed to pull ahead but it was very close.
Conclusion:- A single flare launcher weighs too much, does too little damage, and is far too slow.

2nd Duel;
Setup:- 2 x Sunflare (+2400kg)
Outcome:- I got totally owned, ship was too slow to be able to dodge effectively, and too slow to fire rockets in desired directions.
Conclusion:- The extra weight has doubly nerfed the ship, it gets hit far more, and makes it impossible to hit back.

3rd Duel:- 2 x Nuet III (+400kg)
Outcome:- Fairly easily won.
Conclusion:- Ship was so light I could dodge incoming fire with minimal effort, and move into a good firing position to land hits.

What does this prove? It proves that agility is the deciding factor in combat, not only do you effectively have more armour (cos you don't get hit) but you also have an increased attack bonus (cos you can easily point at the target). Now given that a TriNeutIII Valk weighs approx 1000kg LESS than my DualNeut3 ship, has more armour, AND more weapons, can you honestly say the Valk is balanced?

Not really. I've fought in 5000kg, 6000kg and 8000kg ships without a terrible lot of difficulty. Agility isn't everything.

Ok, I've given up...

<sarcasm>

I suggest the only way forward is to make the Valk half its current mass, give it another weapon port, and double its armour. Then double the mass of every other nations ships.

At least then its totally obvious that everyone is supposed to be an Itani, and Serco can simply be a bot nation... what a great idea...

</sarcasm>

ok, why dont we just let this thread die now.

Move on, nothing to see here, nothing to see.

I get the feeling that was the intent all along, as we're written in the story as the enemy of civilized culture. As I said earlier, once the devs no longer see the Serco as adversaries to be defeated, we'll get balanced ships, and not until.

Yes, this thread has petered out. Time to retire it for now. I think it's clear that a hot issue has been identified. Thank you all for your input.

[locked]