They are only muted as long as the Forgive interface is open, not for the maximum length of time the interface could theoretically be left open. Assuming they click "No" immediately, there's no mute period at all. It's all handled before they change sectors or respawn, so there is no associated loading or lag time.

Also, I do know what an exploit is.

It would be great if, for the remainder of this thread, people could post actual exploit concerns based on using the actual feature in the real game. Not theoretical vague ideas based on their misunderstanding of the concept. I mean, seriously, at least try it out before posting how evil it's going to be.

"A brief explanation of Kill Forgiveness: if someone kills you, in a location where they will lose faction standing as a result, you will have the option of "Forgiving" the kill, allowing them to not lose faction standing. This is a PvP-only thing, intended to help situations where accidental kills may result during grouped play. It's also very important to the upcoming removal of Friendly Fire restrictions, as this kind of accidental kill may become more common."

At present this is affecting every pk whether in monitored or unmonitored space. My complaint isn't about the option itself. I think its a reasonable addition,esp if faction protection is going away. But it should only be available if the person who killed could lose standing because of it. Which means, when I die in b8 (which is often) I shouldn't be asked to forgive the person as there is clearly no need. Also if I kill a Serco or Itani of respect or less standing in UIT monitored space, they should not be required to forgive me or not as they see fit.

I actually like this option because if by some fluke a newbie kills me in monitored space I can do the right thing and forgive them, since they didn't realize how killing me might affect their game play. As it is, there have been one or two very close calls that luckily were avoided because I fled the sector.

Fist: Ok, that's a bug. It's only supposed to pop up in cases where it has relevance.

As far as "relevance", though, you don't have standing impact for killing people who are Hated in your home nation space. But you've always had impact for killing people who not hated.. and that's not unreasonable.

In response to Blacknet, the mute only lasts until the option to forgive times out or the person makes their choice. They can go no further in the game until either happens. So there is no way they could be repeat killed and still muted. They would have to be unmuted to rebuy a ship and launch.

My opposition to the mute is that I fail to see any exploit potential. If the killer is threatening to repeat the offense if not forgiven, then they were probably going to do so anyway, and muting the victim does no good. If the victim is trying to bribe their killer, and can come out with a pay day, good for them. Besides, like I said, credit exchange requires both to be in the same sector, which unless a person is being camped at their home station, which is possible but not likely to be a frequent problem.

After all, they can merely undock in an ec a few times till the the person is distracted or run off by the sf and then head off to find a safer place to home.

"Fist: Ok, that's a bug. It's only supposed to pop up in cases where it has relevance.

As far as "relevance", though, you don't have standing impact for killing people who are Hated in your home nation space. But you've always had impact for killing people who not hated.. and that's not unreasonable."

Awesome! Thanks :)

Ok, then you may have another bug, because I regularly kill respect or less players and voys in monitored space with no faction loss. Believe me, I check my 12 shiny gold bars after each kill to make sure they are still intact. I'm probably shooting myself in the foot for saying this.

Regarding the possibility of a "Forgiveness Ransom", as I posted above (and according to Ray on Friday) they are still in the same sector when making the forgiveness decision, it happens *before* the respawn. So, yes, a credit exchange would be entirely possible. We did this to reduce any delays and simplify the technical implementation (unless Ray changed something before we released).

Regarding fundamental faction stuff: Fist, you're killing people who are Respected with the local faction, in the monitored space of that faction, and receiving zero standing impact? So, for instance, you're killing UIT Respected people in Dau, or whatever, and receiving no hit?

There is a lot of broken-ness to the faction system, all of which will hopefully be addressed in the near future.

Edited slightly because I misread Incarnates question:

That is exactly what I am doing so long as they do not have admired or better standing. Particularly, Serco and Itani in UIT space and UIT and Itani in Serco space. Anyone with respect or less at a subfaction absolutely. And respect or less voys anywhere yes. Since the implementation of the turrets, I have been using this to selectively kill in UIT and Serco space. Which I enjoy because it maintains your purpose of making nation and capital systems safer for new players, but I can make it dangerous for non nation players.

I only receive a hit if it the player or npc is admired or better.

As to the Ransom issue, that delay is usually so brief that I barely get 'gf' out before I'm back at station. Not sure if this is intentional or not, but that has been my experience.

AFAIK the faction penalty starts at +400 or so.

So if you still kill a strike force or npc trying to defend yourself from pirates you still lose a lot faction? Because npcs can't forgive? Is there anyway this could be toned down? Especially with the faction system changing? I can personally vouch that making this simple mistake early in your career can almost ruin the whole experience of Vendetta.

Oh , for heavens sake , it's just one cog in a big wheel, live with it , lets see how things work out ....

Give the devs a bit of elbow room here , things are in a state of flux . Think about the long term , live with the short term ...

theratt...that's how it is now...

The forgiveness majiggy works very well. You are in NO doubt that you have to either forgive or not when you get killed.
I forgive you yoda

professor,

it is not that tough, you just give an example where you are required to take out a free ship outside of the zone and then get /killed by a named bot (emulating a real life person) where this box then shows up.

and you then have to click it or not. If the person doesn't click it he sees in a cinematic how a defense strikeforce booms the offender (or chases it) and if he does forgive them he sees a cinematic of the offender leaving without the strikeforce in hot pursuit.

or you just explain it in text in the tutorial.

I think that in the future bots could consider being more lenient once the new faction changes take place. Maybe base it on faction standing and liscence levels. I would like to know Inc's input on this.

Could you change the text from forgive, to "You have been killed by Roda Slane! Do you wish to file charges in the Xang Xi jurisdiction?". Basically something that reverses the action/inaction philosophy. Forgiveness is an action, but if no one is guilty, no action should be required. If someone is guilty, then the inaction of not "forgiving" is kinda... lame. In the reverse: "Filing Charges" is an action, appropriate response if someone is guilty, and not "Filing charges" is inaction, appropriate to innocence. You could even make it an action in both cases, File/Dismiss charges, or report to xang xi or forgive. I just think that inaction leading to faction hit is so completely unsatisfying when a newb gets pk'd. And perhaps even worse, is the implication, that even if Roda Slane deserves the faction hit, it really comes down to if a person is the "forgiving kind" or not.

An interesting perspective. I like it.

Hmm, I also think it's interesting, and potentially cool, but I don't want to confuse newer people too much. "Filing charges" sounds cool and in-context, but people will immediately wonder "what the hell does that mean?".

Aside from that, I assume that you're still saying that the default action would remain "Faction takes a hit", just the wording semantics would be changed? So instead of Not Forgiving them, you default to Filing Charges, or whatever else?

You could say Roda's thing and then in parenthesis explain it after. IE

"You have been killed by Roda Slane! Do you wish to file charges in the Xang Xi jurisdiction?

(This will cause Roda Slane to lose XX standing)"

Conceptually I like the idea of filing charges, but I think the wording leads to the expectation of a chain of events that isn't currently there. "Filing charges" is not the same as "found guilty", and if I was a new player I would be under the impression that there was some sort of complex legal engine in place.

I do agree though that taking some action is more realistic (no law force is going to necessarily let someone off the hook for a crime simply because the victim chooses to forgive them).

I would think the "Report to Xang-Xi" & "Not worth the effort" suggestion would be a little less mis-leading (or something to that effect).