Forums » General

Big Newspost.

«1234»
Dec 14, 2005 incarnate link
Like I said in the newspost, the list of objective types, targets, options and so on will expand over time. Hopefully with input from people actually writing missions. So, we'll start out kind of simplistic, and add more complexity as time goes on.

Fundamentally, the underlying mission system is pretty powerful. The cases people talk about.. like unusual mission availability triggered by odd events (even diverging trees) are all things I made sure were possible from the beginning. So.. the system itself can do it, now we just have to make it reasonably easy to do. That's what this new mission creation interface is about, and I expect it'll be an "evolutionary" development.. getting better as time goes on and we (all) have a chance to play with it and try different things.
Dec 15, 2005 zamzx zik link
estamated time until estamated time until release?
Dec 15, 2005 Doukutsu link
Awesome! Woo! Time to break open the eggnog and celebrate!
Dec 15, 2005 Krashis Merala link
What about mission flowcharts? For example:

The initial mission is to hunt down a courier and take his special cargo. If unsuccessful, the faction transporting the special cargo hides it in a big convoy, and your mission changes to find the cargo in one of the convoy's ships (possibly using a scanner while dodging enemy fire). You get the idea. If you fail once, you get another shot, but it's harder.

Taking this even further you can build campaigns, or series of missions, again based on some flowchart.

To the devs: I think it's awesome that you are spending time on building these tools. I know how important good infrastructure is to keep a small team from getting all caught up in daily ops. Even if it keeps us players waiting, the tools will let players/guides contribute more, and keep you guys effective in the long run. Keep it up!
Dec 15, 2005 a1k0n link
The mission editor I'm building now is aimed at making 90% of the uncomplicated missions you'd expect to see in a game like ours. It isn't fundamentally very advanced - it's meant to be easy to crank out missions with. Ray's mission editor that has existed for much longer is much more powerful, but it also requires an investment in time trying to understand how it works, which is why there are like two missions created with it in our game now, both of which were written by Ray. And there is yet another mission system on the Lisp side, which is fundamentally concerned with coordinating group activities, like convoys and escorts. The editor, right now, does only single-player missions, which are much simpler to deal with, but opening them up to groups is a possibility in the near future.

So, to answer a few things: first about dagged's concern: rewards. I will probably add XP rewards that mission designers can give to players. That said, I believe that sort of thing is fundamentally wrong: you should get XP just from the things you do during the mission (from all your kills, or your cargo deliveries, or mining, or whatever), and the purpose of completing the mission is to open up (or close down) the availablity of other missions. For this to work, we'd have to basically scrap a bunch of missions we have now and redistribute how XP (specifically Combat XP) is disbursed.

Another thing I should mention is that you can also give (and take away) arbitrary items, including new, unique items - but unique items in the sense that a datapad or the stasis pods are unique. No weapons or anything like that.

Next, Doukutsu: the missions may be in some sense mediocre for the reasons stated above, but at any stage within the mission you can set/clear flags on the mission taker's character which will open up/close other missions, and these can happen as secondary (that is, optional) objectives during the course of the mission. It's up to you whether you tell the player about those objectives. These missions are also intended to be persistent, but there are other missions (like the convoy escort missions) that aren't. I hadn't previously considered it, but it is possible that we could mark missions as "rare" in the editor. There are a set of conditions that must be met before the mission will even be shown to you, and that can include license levels and faction standing as well as the flags I mentioned.

mgl_mouser: You specify where you want the mission to show up primarily by the faction space, but you can restrict it further (capital sectors, or only one sector) if you want to. Plus you need to meet other criteria to see the mission even if the station is in space covered by the mission. Guild tags are not something I had considered, but it isn't totally out of the question.

LeberMac: there isn't any programming involved, really. You pick things out of a list, and then sub-choices pop up and you fill in those. It works like this: [Add action] "Send message..." "Hi there! You took my awesome mission! Now kill some stuff" [Add objective] "Destroy N bots..." "10" "Orun Collectors". The mission is split up into stages; once all non-optional objectives are completed it goes to the next stage, where you can do more actions and have more objectives, or just have it end.

yodaofborg: right now it has "bot types" but I could extend it to just ship types. As John said the list will expand as we discover what we really need.

Krashis: the "flow charts" are achieved by setting accomplishment flags. So if you complete the Serco military training, you get the "sercomilitary=1" flag, which opens up a few low-level missions, which then alter the value of sercomilitary which prevents you from taking the earlier missions, and so on.

zamzx: I'll have a demo by tomorrow (you won't necessarily be able to actually put your missions on the test server but you'll be able to save/load them as text strings until that stuff is exposed).
Dec 15, 2005 sarahanne link
O.o

wow.
Dec 15, 2005 silentsuicide link
i want to have your babies...
Dec 15, 2005 zamzx zik link
uh. ss, that might just be WRONG

anyway, OMG! this is good, although, it doesnt top Icarus being back!
Dec 15, 2005 a1k0n link
Um.. how about we save mission ideas for another thread.

Anyway, those missions aren't bad. They are only slightly more complex than what we can do; the problem is determining which wormhole along the route they're on so you can get the first/last thing.. I guess the effect could be achieved though. It'd be a lot easier if you had predetermined the route and made it specific to a particular faction; there are no free variables in the editor.
Dec 15, 2005 who? me? link
I like a1k0n's post.

if i had to rate it, on a scale of 1 to 10, i would rate it a 7
Dec 15, 2005 Beolach link
Will the editor have an option to copy a mission, or to edit a mission & save the changed mission as a new one? So Leber could make his mission specifically for one faction on one route, and then copy & edit it for different factions & routes.
Dec 16, 2005 LeberMac link
Oh man there's a thread fer missions. [MOVED]
Dec 16, 2005 mgl_mouser link
a1k0n, the mission thread is crazy with ideas already but before I go ahead and make an ass of myself (again), could you give us one or two example of what's possible right now?

The idea is to have a scope of the capabilities of this mission editor. Pseudo code is acceptable (we dont need the details or syntax of those pop-ups thingies).

Also, think we can have a couple of screenies to give us a feel of it?
Dec 16, 2005 a1k0n link
Well, how about a prototype instead of a few screenshots:

http://a1k0n.net/vendetta/missioned.html

(works in firefox, may or may not work in safari, doesn't yet work in IE because its javascript parser is picky about something and its error reporting is terrible and, well, IE sucks in general..)

It's obviously missing stuff, but it should be enough to give you an idea of its capabilities. It's also a work in progress as I'll be messing with it throughout the day. This one won't post missions onto the test server; there will be another URL that does later.
Dec 16, 2005 tkjode link
Aputech Slushie 2000! HAXOR!

Have fun: LOTS!

Best
Mission
Editor
Ever

Don't change a thing!
Dec 16, 2005 Harry Seldon link
Sweet. Works just fine in Safari as far as I can tell.
Dec 16, 2005 Dark Knight link
o.0

/me bows to the devliness of a1k0n the wise
Dec 16, 2005 mgl_mouser link
Woah!

{"stages":[{"a":[{"1":{"1":"msg","2":"Make sure you destroy any 5 members of [SCAR] to get your reward!"}}],"e":[],"o":[{"1":{"1":"destroyn","e":[],"n":"5", "who":{"1":"hatedby","2":"1"}}}]},{"a":[{"1":{"1":"endmission"}}],"e":[],"o":[]}],"events":[],"name":"Coalition Of Itan SCAR hunt","desc":"Seek and kill 5 [SCAR] members for [ITAN]","extdesc":"The Coalition Of Itam officially declares [SCAR] an enemy of the Itan. Seek and destroy any 5 members of [SCAR] and get your reward.","faction":"1"}

:D

That works fine and dandy in Safari BTW.

a1k0n, would there be a way to try those missions in our own client only, much like a bind or something? it's be nice to actually try them and tweak them before we submit them for general use.
Dec 16, 2005 Spellcast link
a1kon

you

rock.

that is awesome.

and i like the mission editor of DOOM title.

any idea when it will be more finalized?
Dec 16, 2005 thergvk link
i hope someone is less confused by it than me.