I think that the current Skycommand prometheus needs to be rebalanced, and after thinking of way a to not make it lose its aggressive approach in pvp I believe the best way to do this would be to remove a small port from the Skycommand. Currently it has 21k Armour, two small ports, a large port, a max turbo speed of 220 and 535 thrust, what it trades to get these wildly good stats?

Slower turn speed, and the inability to do out of sector chases effectively aswell as it cannot infinite turbo.

Suggestion: removal of a small port on the Skycommand prom, but increasing its Armour to 25k.

Reason: the Skycommand prom trades very little (slow turn speed and cannot chase for long) to gain alot of Armour, thrust, firepower. I believe giving it more Armour but less weapons would balance it out more then it being capable of dishing out the amount of damage it does while also being able to take a crazy amounts of damage and still be okay at the end.

So a warhog on steroids?

MAJOR steroids

They don't call it skycommand because it's tanky.
If this suggestion passes, I would add the name change to skyhippopotamus

^

IronLord,

What brought you to your opinion that you needed to nerf the Skyprom, and what are you trying to achieve with the nerf?

Before I get started with my reply to this, i'll include all of its stats:

Prometheus SkyCommand

Level: 9/6/10/1/-
Armor: 21000
Cargo: 18
Weapons: 2S, 1L
Mass: 10000 kg
Length: 21m
Thrust: 525 N
Turbo Thrust: 535 N
Max Speed: 65 m/s
Spin Torque: 11.5 Nm
Turbo Speed: 220 m/s
Turbo Energy: 60/s

And just for comparisons sake (because this is going to come up), The X-1:

Valkyrie X-1

Level: 9/9/6/1/-
Armor: 11600
Cargo: 2
Weapons: 3S
Mass: 3100 kg
Length: 12 m
Thrust: 225 N
Turbo Thrust: 230 N
Max Speed: 65 m/s
Spin Torque: 7.0 Nm
Turbo Speed: 225 m/s
Turbo Energy: 55/s

A couple other threads about nerfing the prom:
Nerf skyproms
Proms, Valks & Mauds

And a quote by niki from one of them:

As Andy and TRS have already written above, we shouldn't just try to balance the ships by changing the stats and making all ships into the same one. Instead, find ways to balance, by creating a better economy, restricting access, giving individual ships a specific role that is useful in some new in-game activity (content! ding ding!), etc. ..
But all of those changes really aren't short term, so... yeah..

I'll formulate a proper reply later, but i said in first part of this post: i want to know what experiences brought you to the opinion that the sky prom needs a nerf?

I had a similar question: What practical problem are we fixing?

That’s the real question, because in my experience as a mobile pilot who has played with the prom for years now, there is no doubt that the prom is a powerhouse. but it comes with its problems, for example turbo and turning which makes fighting any pilot who has better skills in lightships easily able to outmaneuver and kill the prom without much problem. I’ve experienced this many time with pilots like Estrian, Munny, Boda, spidey, etc, etc. the prom is meant to hold down a position as said many many times and if I wanted a ship with 1 lp and 1sp the WTD has a better thrust to weight ratio and isn’t so clunky to turn making it more viable than a ship that just tanks damage then can’t even turn as fast as the wtd. id like to add that i enjoy the fact that the valk has 230 thrust while weighing 3100kg compared to 10000kg to 545 if someone can do the weight to thrust ratio I'm pretty sure the valk is just too fast even compared to the hound which has 5000kg and 190 thrust. I’m just genuinely wonder what exactly could be the problem with the ships that are meant to be prized national ships of their respective nation.

I feel that the prom in its current form, and the x1 in its current form, the prom requires little skill to pilot and use effectively over the x1. The way to deal with a prom is to get behind it (a hard task in itself, as it's very easy to keep someone in front of you). Just from what the prom is trading for what it got its getting alot more out of having slower turn for extra firepower and Armour, aswell as it's thrust. I'm not trying to make all shops the same, but I couldn't think of a nerf for a prom that wouldnt include taking a port away, or taking Armour away, honestly.

I've played with the X1 before when I’d hop on Pc and gonna be 100% honest, I preferred the x1 over the prom. It gave me so much flexibility to hunt and kill without much worry about getting hit because it’s so light. I’ve even fought against 2 FAMY pilots with my x1, and on my first day I was able to take both of them down below 50% before having to hit 30% and running (they are formable pilots too btw I’m not saying names due to reasons) but honestly speaking with a prom I can kill fast but 2 pilots who know what they are doing and distancing themselves makes it hard for prom pilots to win. unless it’s 2 pilots who don’t know how to handle a prom then it’s a different story, but again they all have trade-offs and the armor and thrust are just one big part of what makes them viable in different scenarios.

And of course you might feel that there is a big skill difference needed to pilot these ships but honestly it’s how you use them that makes all the difference you are a mobile pilot mostly correct and every now and then you hop on pc you feel a much wider sense of skill on pc then on mobile making things like energy something that is useless into something that just destroys everything it all depends on your experience too

I feel that the prom in its current form, and the x1 in its current form, the prom requires little skill to pilot and use effectively over the x1.

Do you have an example of this, and can you expand on it? Because i am having a hard time understanding where you are coming from. What i have noticed in reading most the 'nerf the prom' and 'nerf the valk' threads, is the the original posters in the time period when the threads were started, where wanting to nerf the top level nationship for the currently dominate nation.

For example, when the Itani were dominate number wise, people complained that the Valk was too op and needed to be nerfed. Currently Sercos have been dominate number wise, so now you are asking for a nerf for the Sky Prom. Though, I have noticed a larger Itani presence coming back.

Say things swing back to the Itani being dominate number wise, how does a nerfed Prometheus SkyCommand help the overall game for everyone?

On pc I feel it's easier to use weapons like, neuts, gauss, rails, etc. But on mobile the gat flare is easier.

Anyway, I feel that this topic needed to be discuss one way or another (as I went on a rant about it on the discord yesterday) and I stand by my reasoning that the skyprom (not the mkll or lower proms) trades next to nothing for more Armour, thrust, and weapon ports. While it's counterpart the x1 has lower stats all over the board over the sky prom (except torque, because I'm pretty sure lower torque is better). Hell the prom even has better cargo capacity over the x1. So if anything, The x1 has better spin (by 4.5, is faster turbo speed by 5) and unless I'm missing something that's it, pretty much.

Also, to "We All Float", wasn't trying to ignore you (apologies)

"I'll formulate a proper reply later, but i said in first part of this post: i want to know what experiences brought you to the opinion that the sky prom needs a nerf?"

After facing against a great deal of both proms and x1s, npcs and players, I've been thinking about the balance of ships alot recently, and have been looking into them more closely (like with the mklv wart suggestion that got it increased to 11500, from 11000. Which the buff has slight but noticeable inprovement). I'm starting my suggestion with the two nation elite ships because I honestly feel that the skyprom is overpowered compared to its x1 counterpart, which I also believe deserves a buff.

While it's counterpart the x1 has lower stats all over the board over the sky prom (except torque, because I'm pretty sure lower torque is better).

You really think so? The Valk is so much more maneuverable than the Prom. An experienced Valk pilot can nickel and dime a prom from distance, and there not much a prom can do (if the prom is equipped with a close in loadout).

So if anything, The x1 has better spin (by 4.5, is faster turbo speed by 5) and unless I'm missing something that's it, pretty much.

I think you missed mass. That is a huge stat to keep ignoring.

And also take in account the X-1's hitbox.

All this of course needs to take account for load out and individual pilot skill and experience, ie YMMV.

Farther up you mention
The way to deal with a prom is to get behind it (a hard task in itself, as it's very easy to keep someone in front of you).
This depends on what kind of fight you are in. If it is duel, then yeah, the prom might have you (depending on loadout of each ship), but if it is a furball, the Valks can switch targets faster and delete Prom armor quickly.

Well to throw in my experience. I have outmaneuvered many proms at very close range. I'm talking hull collision close with Gauss mk3 (all I use). It's pretty fun dancing around a prom in my X1.

I just don't see the greater goal that this change would bring. What problem is there that needs fixing as others said?

I wonder why the topic of fittings on these two ships haven't been brought up yet. With the bottom demonstrator being skill.

The topic of balance in a game should be left to the experienced devs who have the final say on this. The evidence presented by OP doesn't convince me of the need for this change. To me right now the HULLS (Ships) look quite balanced.

"The topic of balance in a game should be left to the experienced devs who have the final say on this"

The whole point of this is to discuss it so that Inc or ray or both can or (do not have too really) see this kind of stuff. This is a suggestions topic, and it I will make more of these when I feel like something is unbalanced regardless of the opinion of other players.

The comment of experienced players saying they've out maneuvered proms in x1s is meaningless, for the exact purpose that we cannot determine strictly off of hearsay why a ship is good or bad. We can only look at the stats, because I honestly don't find the "in my experience I've out maneuvered proms in my x1" I've out maneuvered proms in a ec89, doesn't mean that the ec89 is on pat with a x1. It's because I was against a inexperienced player, new to the ship.

Ngl the biggest counter to proms is honestly, gauss canons on light ships it’s the worst and a nightmare if they know what they are doing i had to seriously get much better on mobile after Bq that dude used a Corvus vult with double gauss cannons and he won 70% of the time in the beginning until i started using flight assist turning it off and on just to counter that dance he did it still didn’t do much but it started becoming more even and going into my favor now imagine an X1

I outmaneuvered pilots who are considered seasonal veterans in my x1 against their proms and I’m on mobile and i won with gauss cannons

Very cool of you, doesn't change my mind on what I'm talking about with its ******STATS*******