Lecter, if it makes you feel better, we all feel very sorry you don't have a trident of your own.

"Inc can and will release the other two capship variants!"

Sure, he'll do that Soon(TM)

Its more than just situational awareness, as the trident captains should be able to relay said sensor data to the group or guild.

Ships and planes have used data-linking for years in the real world, has this technology been forgotten somehow in centuries of "progress"?

Lecter, if it makes you feel better, we all feel very sorry you don't have a trident of your own.

Try to stay on-topic, sweetie...Whistler's been on a veritable rampage lately.

I really hate integrated anything, unless it makes sense to make the thing unique.

I know that Incarnate doesn't like specialized ports and would prefer that the existing ports be general purpose so that there is a series of tradeoffs to be made. So rather than making all of these ships with integrated systems, just open the ports up, populate stations with the specific sensor addons that people want, and let us make the choice of what sensors to equip on the ships.

This would give those that want trident gunships access to more weapons, and those that want extra sensors the option to go that way as well.

If there is some reason that a specific ship should have more sensors than weapons, then perhaps there is a need after all for specialized systems/sensors/utility ports as many have asked for for a while.

With that logic you'd have to remove the UDV addons and scanners, moth miner II roid scanner, group radar extender on the trident type M, the hound's cargo scanner and probably something else I'm forgetting. There are plenty of precedents for built-in items. The trident should have better computer/sensor/communications than all other ships.

Tridents can be used by miners, traders, nationalists and pirates. There could be something in it for everyone. A roid scanner, heavy storm radar, cargo scanner, add-on scanners, extended bar fridge!. Extended range, improved communications to group for situational awareness.

Seems like a no-brainer.

The trident should have better computer/sensor/communications than all other ships.

Except nobody has come up with any justification for that claim beyond "well, it's a capital ship!" Which is, of course, just as much horseshit as the claim that a capital ship should have better agility or speed or acceleration than all other ships. The claim is, as you say, a no-brainer...just not quite the way you meant.

The trident's computer system and command/control role have already been used to justify it having integrated group radar extension--something no other ship has. I've yet to see any explanation for why it needs more or better sensors beyond "but I built this thing to be uber and it could be more uber!"

It takes weeks just to build the computer with a co-ordinated group effort. The trident is no smarter than an EC. How do you explain that Lecter? How do you explain the UDV?

Man, those ECs have shared group radar extension integrated now?! Amazing!

Dr Lecter you are the only one who has any problem with this idea and you have not fully explained why. As to why tridents should have these things; first, they are capships, which is a perfectly valid reason. Second, they (presumably) have massive computing power due to using the brain of a leviathan, the biggest damn bot in the game, which btw mines and probably has some sort of scanner for that. Third, Latos M-7 is a Corvus station and Corvus is no stranger to integrated scanners. we know they have the tech to put in a cargo scanner, so its not that big a stretch to put the rest of them on a ship 20 times larger. If you really feel like its too much maybe there could be a mission where you have to provide all the scanner widgets to integrate them, thereby making your point more moot.

I have also expressed something between neutrality and dissent.

1) No, it does not necessarily follow that a trident, which imo barely qualifies as a cap ship is reason enough. I'm quite certain that modern shipping containers have excellent satellite positioning and communications capabilities. I am also quite certain that there is a huge number of container vessels operating under the bare minimum required by international law. Military vessels on the other hand, most likely have far superior technologies incorporated onto them

2) And they also have a massive f-ing reactor but are still run on a fast charge power cell, or trident cell if a player chooses. So riddle me this, if the leviathan is so advanced, why does it just sit in sector and roll while spamming massive guass? The levi whateverit'scalled- is just a very difficult piece to acquire meant to force players to work with a group or trade another player for the piece. There is NO RATIONAL REASON why building a trident would require ANY bot drops at all in a realistic universe.

3) And? Why don't I see more integrated scanners on the corvult and cormaud then? Yes they can. That they can does not require that they will. There needs to be a better argument for adding them than this.

At this point, I think anything beyond shared extended and storm radar should come at a cost to the owner in consuming either their large port or turret.

None of what you list give a reason for why tridents NEED the additional capabilities.

Names are just words, and words are wind. The Trident Type M is no more a high tech military vessel than a homemade tank made out of a bulldozer is. It's a franken-ship cobbled together out of odds and ends by hobos in greyspace, not a state of the art vessel built by a military contractor for war.

But regardless, this is an instance where realism doesn't matter. In reality there would be no reason I couldn't just attach every scanner we have to a Behemoth. The lack of mounting points isn't an issue because I'm handy enough that I could simply install new mounting points. It's a very sturdy ship with lots of surface area and pushing power, and it could easily accommodate an additional powercell if the sensors were demanding too much power.

But this is a game, not reality, so concessions are made for the sake of gameplay. Ships are given artificially tight limitations to force more variety in which ships people choose.

So riddle me this, if the leviathan is so advanced, why does it just sit in sector and roll while spamming massive guass?

The Levi is orchestrating every bot in the Levi sector. Queens, observers, collectors and guardians. There is mining, defense, hive milling about. Levis are plenty smart.

None of what you list give a reason for why tridents NEED the additional capabilities.

-Fluffy

I've yet to see any explanation for why it needs more or better sensors beyond "but I built this thing to be uber and it could be more uber!"

-Lecter

Several very good reasons have been given. You don't have to agree with those reasons, but you cannot deny that the reasons have been given. Unless you want to be purposefully misleading.

To fluffy's point about ore scanning: Ore scanning made easier would be true, but I don't see that as a bad thing if you have managed to achieve the building of a Trident (if anything it's a reward). Most people have zero interest in continuing to scan roids and mine stuff once they've made a Trident anyway, so I really don't see how the game would be hurt. I can see how your personal preference for being challenged when prospecting in bot sectors would be hurt, but there's a difference between what YOU like to do and the game as a whole.

I think game-wide negative effects are a much more important consideration than personal preferences....food for thought.

It's a glorified cargo barge, not the fucking USS Enterprise.

Nobody is asking for it to be THE capital ship, just more in line with A capital ship.

I think integrating the sensors is actually a better idea than providing small ports... obviously more than sensors can be added to small ports, which would have larger gamemplay effects (namely ability to slay queens and other tridents and even levis with less risk). Not that I'm opposed to such an enhanced role for the Trident..

How is the condition of being a trident a need for the scanners?

How does the computing power a trident theoretically has (though I personally question this) a need for the scanners?

How is the fact the Corvus puts a scanner on one ship- the Greyhound- a need?

If you give this ship all of the perks that exist in game, what is left to make future variants special?

I don't fully oppose such scanning ability be available to tridents. I think it should at least take up a turret for the extended range because I think integrated scanning should be the exception rather than the norm. It makes sense on the Greyhound or a ship dedicated to mining. If you want perks then the rule should be that there is surcharge.

As far as my concern about ore scanning, tridents already make many 'jobs' much more efficient. As they should. But should they necessarily make every job more efficient? Somewhere in the Soon(tm) timeline new systems are going to be introduced with even more rare and necessary resources. I think the question GS has to ask is do they want all of that unknown to be logged into multiple database tables within a few hours of introduction? The game is structured to require a certain amount of work to accomplish a goal- I strongly disagree with the level of work to reward in many cases- but that is something that needs to be considered for the good of the whole game.

How is the condition of being a trident a need for the scanners?

Because Tridents play a much different role than other ships in the game. They are combat support and heavy transport capital ships that are very expensive, very large, and dockable. They are nowhere near the equivalent of normal ships in the game and cannot be compared to other ships as such.

How does the computing power a trident theoretically has (though I personally question this) a need for the scanners?

I don't understand this question.

How is the fact the Corvus puts a scanner on one ship- the Greyhound- a need?

The "need" of anything in game to have any feature(s) can only be determined by how that feature (/those features) affect gameplay. Hounds' cargo scanners obviously make them an ideal ship for people who want to surveil and quickly intercept trade vessels.

Likewise, additional scanners on the Trident will enhance their role and promote their use in many areas of gameplay (in a positive way): mining, hauling, combat.

Opponents here are acting as though adding built-in sensors suddenly makes Tridents some hugely overpowered gamebreaking ship. That is simply not the case.

If you want perks then the rule should be that there is surcharge.

That would only really apply if the Trident was deemed to be perfectly balanced in it's current form. Many, including Incarnate I would suspect, would argue that is not the case. The Trident still has the surcharge of having to be crafted, being very slow, being very easy to be destroyed by a determined group of people if the opportunity presents itself. This is by no means the ONLY thing that needs to change in regards to the Trident (including anti-trident measures), but it does make sense in a lot of ways.

But should they necessarily make every job more efficient?

I think the question GS has to ask is do they want all of that unknown to be logged into multiple database tables within a few hours of introduction?

^These are highly exxagerated claims. First, scanning roids from Trident is not efficient at all. Not only do you have to build the damn thing in the first place over many months, but it's also incredibly slow compared to a hound flying around with a mineral scanner. Ore scanners would really only find their use in group mining efforts in my mind, which is a great thing (and perhaps secondarily in very casual low-risk prospecting). Second, please explain how you can build a trident and scan all the asteroids in the universe within a few hours of playing the game.

What he meant is that as soon as Tridents have scanners integrated, Trident owners will got out and quickly scan all the roids (I guess he's assuming the Trident mineral scanners would have enough range to scan most/all of a sector from the center).

This concern seems silly to me; people who care about scanning all roids have probably already done so.

Several very good reasons have been given.

Curiously absent from your post is any list of them.

What he meant is that as soon as Tridents have scanners integrated, Trident owners will got out and quickly scan all the roids (I guess he's assuming the Trident mineral scanners would have enough range to scan most/all of a sector from the center).


If that's the case, then it's easily remedied. Simply make it 750m like the advanced mineral scanner.