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Diqrtvpe
Very good and thoughtful answers.
However I still wish I could get the fact across that “danger” is not a problem. No one wants to play a “safe” game, least of all me. I spend a lot of my time in Gray. This is not about me, it is about keeping players. And it is not about “danger” it is about personalities. AI threats are more appealing for some players precisely because they have better personalities than the griefers and provide more interesting gameplay.
More players coming to Grayspace may, or may not bring back “real” pirates but I believe that a better solution is to give the griefers something to do and more places to fight so that they do not clot in one area. That is what the military suggestion is all about.
Very good and thoughtful answers.
However I still wish I could get the fact across that “danger” is not a problem. No one wants to play a “safe” game, least of all me. I spend a lot of my time in Gray. This is not about me, it is about keeping players. And it is not about “danger” it is about personalities. AI threats are more appealing for some players precisely because they have better personalities than the griefers and provide more interesting gameplay.
More players coming to Grayspace may, or may not bring back “real” pirates but I believe that a better solution is to give the griefers something to do and more places to fight so that they do not clot in one area. That is what the military suggestion is all about.
Uhm. Greyspace is SUPPOSED to not have any repercussions when you kill someone.. Thats the whole idea behind it. If you enjoy the civilian life, there's plenty to do in nation space. Shoot the hive and if you ever like pvp why not ask a fellow civilian for a duel?
No one is forcing you into grey, its just more profitable and risky there.
No one is forcing you into grey, its just more profitable and risky there.
More players coming to Grayspace may, or may not bring back “real” pirates but I believe that a better solution is to give the griefers something to do and more places to fight so that they do not clot in one area. That is what the military suggestion is all about.
From my experience with griefers... they would be completely uninterested in other things to do. They enjoy causing players pain. Giving them something to do that does not show off their skills as much or let them brag as much or let them kill people as much will not be interesting to them. True piracy will soon be profitable again, and therefore there will be more pirates... and pirates dislike griefers too. It's hard (not impossible) to continue to play in a certain style when everyone is hunting you... the griefers' numbers will soon be dropping.
From my experience with griefers... they would be completely uninterested in other things to do. They enjoy causing players pain. Giving them something to do that does not show off their skills as much or let them brag as much or let them kill people as much will not be interesting to them. True piracy will soon be profitable again, and therefore there will be more pirates... and pirates dislike griefers too. It's hard (not impossible) to continue to play in a certain style when everyone is hunting you... the griefers' numbers will soon be dropping.
"Oh, and one other thing. Regarding how PvP is supposed to run, the devs have made it very clear that they want there to always be a little bit of danger involved in the game."
Danger, danger, DANGER. Will someone PLEASE understand that danger is not the topic? What part of “squadrons of top notch AI pirates” makes anyone think that this is about avoiding DANGER??? It is NOT about avoiding DANGER, it is about not playing with obnoxious people who only think of themselves.
My suggestions all center around how everyone can play and have fun. Their comments are all about “I want my way and do not care what other people want.”
It is simply wrong, and demonstrates a lack of understanding, to keep trying to drag this back to the subject of danger. Frankly I would like to see Grayspace so thick with vicious AI opponents that everyone, griefers and non griefers alike, could only go there if they were willing to fight and could only stay there in cooperation with others, or through great skill.
A rat, lurking in a worm hole to jump a trader should have to spend a lot of time looking over his shoulder for bigger, meaner AI rats looking to jump him. Grayspace should not be safe---for anyone.
Danger, danger, DANGER. Will someone PLEASE understand that danger is not the topic? What part of “squadrons of top notch AI pirates” makes anyone think that this is about avoiding DANGER??? It is NOT about avoiding DANGER, it is about not playing with obnoxious people who only think of themselves.
My suggestions all center around how everyone can play and have fun. Their comments are all about “I want my way and do not care what other people want.”
It is simply wrong, and demonstrates a lack of understanding, to keep trying to drag this back to the subject of danger. Frankly I would like to see Grayspace so thick with vicious AI opponents that everyone, griefers and non griefers alike, could only go there if they were willing to fight and could only stay there in cooperation with others, or through great skill.
A rat, lurking in a worm hole to jump a trader should have to spend a lot of time looking over his shoulder for bigger, meaner AI rats looking to jump him. Grayspace should not be safe---for anyone.
Ah, I think I see what you're getting at now. I also think that you're not necessarily understanding the griefers. You can't give a griefer something else to do, he won't do it. A griefer just wants to grief people, pretty much by definition. I won't argue that there being more PvP based missions and things would be good, but the devs are working on that already. Also, your point about breaking up griefer clots is understood, but I don't think it goes far enough. The way to beat the griefers isn't to give them multiple places to grief. That way there will just be more places where people get frustrated by them. Instead, it's to remove the stationary targets, the preset arenas, because they can't grief what isn't there.
As for the personality issues, I am with Aticephyr on this one, that /ignore is your best friend. Sure, some of the conversations on 100 might seem a little disjointed (especially considering how much some of the griefer/trolls talk...), but your blood pressure will thank you for it. And the more people who stop feeding the trolls, the less enjoyment they'll take out of baiting people. Plus, if you see someone in space who you've ignored because they're a troll, you hopefully know well enough to be on your guard.
As for the personality issues, I am with Aticephyr on this one, that /ignore is your best friend. Sure, some of the conversations on 100 might seem a little disjointed (especially considering how much some of the griefer/trolls talk...), but your blood pressure will thank you for it. And the more people who stop feeding the trolls, the less enjoyment they'll take out of baiting people. Plus, if you see someone in space who you've ignored because they're a troll, you hopefully know well enough to be on your guard.
A rat, lurking in a worm hole to jump a trader should have to spend a lot of time looking over his shoulder for bigger, meaner AI rats looking to jump him. Grayspace should not be safe---for anyone.
Many guilds have KOS lists... and griefers are on these lists. We need more players so more people can help enforce these lists, sure. But we do NOT, I repeat NOT, need to restructure the game to move griefers around.
Greyspace isn't safe for anyone. We don't need to add AI with the sole objective to make it less safe. Though it should be mentioned Incarnate is thinking of bringing back the AI pirates anyways, and you've even commented on that thread, so no reason suggesting it be done again.
For those of you who haven't read it, that AI pirate thread is here:
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/21128
Many guilds have KOS lists... and griefers are on these lists. We need more players so more people can help enforce these lists, sure. But we do NOT, I repeat NOT, need to restructure the game to move griefers around.
Greyspace isn't safe for anyone. We don't need to add AI with the sole objective to make it less safe. Though it should be mentioned Incarnate is thinking of bringing back the AI pirates anyways, and you've even commented on that thread, so no reason suggesting it be done again.
For those of you who haven't read it, that AI pirate thread is here:
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/21128
Just saw your latest post, and I'll add this addendum to mine: Once you've /ignored a griefer/troll, there is functionally no difference between him and an AI pirate. It is our duty to inform newer players about the benefits of /ignore, and also to let them know that greyspace isn't safe, so they don't get all surprised when someone kills them there. After all, if they expect the possibility of death and can't see the inane taunting on 100, they won't get all worked up and leave in a huff.
"Incarnate has the right idea, he simply has not carried it far enough."
Correct! Because the game's not even close to having all the features it needs to have. My complaint with all these "Won't somebody PLEASE think of the __________" discussions is that the devs already know what is needed and are having to work at it in a way that is dictated by their resources and whatever life throws at them. They know, and they're telling us what they're up to.
Correct! Because the game's not even close to having all the features it needs to have. My complaint with all these "Won't somebody PLEASE think of the __________" discussions is that the devs already know what is needed and are having to work at it in a way that is dictated by their resources and whatever life throws at them. They know, and they're telling us what they're up to.
It is Saturday afternoon and there are currently 35 people in the whole world who are playing this game. I am in Grayspace at the moment and there is almost no one here. VO has a problem.
There are none so blind as those who will not see.
There are none so blind as those who will not see.
I don't think anyone here thinks that VO doesn't need more players, or doesn't need any more work to keep new players. That's why the devs continue to work their asses off to improve the game. Many of us agree with many of your points, if not your suggested changes. However, the suggestion of adding in what would effectively be a PvP flag or something of the sort would probably lose the game some of the vets of longest standing. I don't think the devs want to implement a "fix" that will lose them their staunchest supporters.
We know the game is broken. We're currently at the broken egg stage of the omelette. Pointing out that it is broken does nothing to fix it, especially when the devs are still hard at work changing things that will have great bearing on your concerns. Do not mistake our disagreement with your suggestions with the belief that things are fine as they are.
We know the game is broken. We're currently at the broken egg stage of the omelette. Pointing out that it is broken does nothing to fix it, especially when the devs are still hard at work changing things that will have great bearing on your concerns. Do not mistake our disagreement with your suggestions with the belief that things are fine as they are.
We've all been over this same bridge many, many times. Nearly all of the changes the devs have made recently are focused on retaining new players. They will not do any significant advertising until they feel they can retain the people they attract. Yes, there is a problem. Realistically, there are many problems which fit into several categories. Where we differ is in identifying the order in which the problems are tackled. You can help by being in the game, by testing whatever needs to be tested, helping out noobs, and generally being an example of the kind of player you would like others to be. Your feedback is valuable and welcome, but don't feel you have to defend it all the time. The devs read this stuff (eventually) and are adept at picking out salient points whether other posters are in agreement or not.
Attacking anyone who tries to help fix the problem does not help fix it either. The whole idea of SUGESTIONS on what is wrong and how to fix it is to spark useful debate in order to find solutions.
Anguished cries of “I want my way and don’t care about anyone else” do not help fix the problem, they are the problem. Those who will only stay if they can prey on those who do not want to play their game are also a large part of the problem. As staunch as their support may be, if it costs the company lots and lots of customers (and I submit that it does) then their support may come at too high a cost.
I just flew an unarmed EC from one end of Gray to the other---no problem. And that is a problem.
Gray is not suppose to be safe, but it is, largely because of the griefers. They are few in numbers, not very difficult to avoid, and they do not play well with others. They have failed in their job of being the bad guys. It is time to try something else.
Anguished cries of “I want my way and don’t care about anyone else” do not help fix the problem, they are the problem. Those who will only stay if they can prey on those who do not want to play their game are also a large part of the problem. As staunch as their support may be, if it costs the company lots and lots of customers (and I submit that it does) then their support may come at too high a cost.
I just flew an unarmed EC from one end of Gray to the other---no problem. And that is a problem.
Gray is not suppose to be safe, but it is, largely because of the griefers. They are few in numbers, not very difficult to avoid, and they do not play well with others. They have failed in their job of being the bad guys. It is time to try something else.
*sigh*
Your portrayal of our responses to you is not helpful. I've been trying to civilly respond to your posts, and basically calling me a self-centered idiot isn't really helping your case. I'll point out once again that we are not saying we want it to be this way because we like killing people randomly and at any time. A large part of my time in-game is spent protecting people from griefers, in one way or another. What we are saying is that the lack of PvP-free zones is a basic game tenet. And you are being inconsistent when you say it's not about the danger and then focus on the danger. It's either about the griefers being obnoxious little gits or it's about the griefers killing people randomly, and you've said it's not the second but then are harping on about it. You may well have interesting ideas about this, but they aren't coming through at all. I'm not saying this to attack you, I'm hoping to have a reasoned discussion about this but it's getting lost in the noise.
Also, as previously stated, grey currently is mostly safe because the pirates aren't around due to the traders being around because of the economy. I'm not sure how long you've been here, but before the economy redux there were lots of pirates about, and the devs are hoping to move things back in that direction.
Also, as previously stated, grey currently is mostly safe because the pirates aren't around due to the traders being around because of the economy. I'm not sure how long you've been here, but before the economy redux there were lots of pirates about, and the devs are hoping to move things back in that direction.
yep, this thread is now far far off topic. I do feel for ya man (Utisz) but this game is fun because of the unlimited freedom you have to make people feel like shit. If the devs take that out the game will suck.
Whistler,
I am in the game, daily. I do try every new mission that comes along and test everything that needs testing. I have helped many new players and I make a point of playing in such a way as to be an example to others.
Many of the new players I have helped have ended up explaining to me why they are not staying, as have many more experienced players I know who have chosen to leave. None of my suggestions have my own desires as their motive. I am more than capable of taking care of myself. I have no problem with the griefeers, but I do have a problem seeing good players leave because of them.
Not many of those who have blindly attacked my suggestions seem to have very good reading comprehension skills. They do not read what I write, only what they want to hear and try to twist anything they do not understand (which is a lot) into complaints about wanting less danger—or whatever.
I think VO has great potential and have said repeatedly that so far I have not seen a single new feature that the devs have come up with that I did not like. But the whole point of having a suggestion forum is to solicited suggestions. Attacking those who make suggestions is therefore counterproductive.
I am in the game, daily. I do try every new mission that comes along and test everything that needs testing. I have helped many new players and I make a point of playing in such a way as to be an example to others.
Many of the new players I have helped have ended up explaining to me why they are not staying, as have many more experienced players I know who have chosen to leave. None of my suggestions have my own desires as their motive. I am more than capable of taking care of myself. I have no problem with the griefeers, but I do have a problem seeing good players leave because of them.
Not many of those who have blindly attacked my suggestions seem to have very good reading comprehension skills. They do not read what I write, only what they want to hear and try to twist anything they do not understand (which is a lot) into complaints about wanting less danger—or whatever.
I think VO has great potential and have said repeatedly that so far I have not seen a single new feature that the devs have come up with that I did not like. But the whole point of having a suggestion forum is to solicited suggestions. Attacking those who make suggestions is therefore counterproductive.
What part of "Diqrtvpe: Very good and thoughtful answers" did I fail to make clear?
so like as im writing this i am being chased around by 8 players all trying to blow me up while im eating lunch so sorry i couldn't blow up your ec 89 but im kinda preoccupied
It was the “I want my way and don’t care about anyone else” comment, Utisz. Which may well not have been aimed at me, necessarily, but still doesn't help your case.
diqrtvpe
"It was the “I want my way and don’t care about anyone else” comment, Utisz. Which may well not have been aimed at me, necessarily, but still doesn't help your case."
You are right. It was not aimed at you.
“Lord~spidey
yep, this thread is now far far off topic. I do feel for ya man (Utisz) but this game is fun because of the unlimited freedom you have to make people feel like shit. If the devs take that out the game will suck.”
Want to take a wild guess as to what type of player it was aimed at? I think this sort of comment helps my case a lot. How about you?
"It was the “I want my way and don’t care about anyone else” comment, Utisz. Which may well not have been aimed at me, necessarily, but still doesn't help your case."
You are right. It was not aimed at you.
“Lord~spidey
yep, this thread is now far far off topic. I do feel for ya man (Utisz) but this game is fun because of the unlimited freedom you have to make people feel like shit. If the devs take that out the game will suck.”
Want to take a wild guess as to what type of player it was aimed at? I think this sort of comment helps my case a lot. How about you?