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But I like no FF!!!
Then you'll be overruled. FF has got to go. It wasn't intended to be implemented in the first place, I think. Only the silly players de-mining their opposite team's flags by creating spoof chars made it pop up.
Noooooooooo!
Oh Well... can't win em all eh?
Oh Well... can't win em all eh?
Never mind, maybe one day you will get the safety catch feature? No FF serves no real purpose now that you get training weapons, and hopefully strike forces will get stronger and will make attacking noobs a real pain in one's rear end.
If you don't want newbs to be able to die, why don't you just make them invincible to PvP until they hit license level X ? There's no need to make things more complicated than that. It just takes away more methods of honest game play.
Because then veterans will make new accounts to have "newbie" characters to use to terrorize not only real newbies, but everyone else as well. It would be the biggest exploit ever. Nice idea, though.
Flares + Friendly Fire = More widgets.
My name is Katarn and I sponsored this advertisement.
P.S. De-mining was BS.
My name is Katarn and I sponsored this advertisement.
P.S. De-mining was BS.
Professor, now you make me laugh. The scenario you've presented gives my mind's eye a little broadcast like this...
In the distance, cities glow afire and madmen rampage through the streets screaming nonsensible words, possibly chants to the demons that swelter in the consuming flames, or prayers for a quick and mostly painless death. Over all the chaos, one brave reporter brings us the scoop. "It's terrible out here! EC-89's, with their government issued plasma cannons are wreaking havoc left and right. Noone would have thought that they could do so much damage with light batteries, but now those people are all dead. Everyone is wondering the same question; Where did these newbies learn to fly so well?"
Seriously though, you raise a good point.
EDIT: If you don't want newbs to be able to die, why don't you just make them incapable to engage in PvP until they hit license level X, with a toggle to turn this option on/off ? There's no need to make things more complicated than that. It just takes away more methods of honest game play.
In the distance, cities glow afire and madmen rampage through the streets screaming nonsensible words, possibly chants to the demons that swelter in the consuming flames, or prayers for a quick and mostly painless death. Over all the chaos, one brave reporter brings us the scoop. "It's terrible out here! EC-89's, with their government issued plasma cannons are wreaking havoc left and right. Noone would have thought that they could do so much damage with light batteries, but now those people are all dead. Everyone is wondering the same question; Where did these newbies learn to fly so well?"
Seriously though, you raise a good point.
EDIT: If you don't want newbs to be able to die, why don't you just make them incapable to engage in PvP until they hit license level X, with a toggle to turn this option on/off ? There's no need to make things more complicated than that. It just takes away more methods of honest game play.
I think FF in station sectors should simply be made a serious offense, and make strike forces much more fearsome and capable of punishing offenders quickly. Farther away from stations, the response time would be slower, and eventually they simply wouldn't respond (near or in gray space). The farther you venture out, the more the risk....
Nice picture you paint of the terror.
"Tom, we're reporting looting, raping and cannibalism."
"Wow, you've actually seen people raping and eating each other?"
"No, Tom, we haven't actually seen it, we're just reporting it. Also, the death toll in Beaverton is around 600,000. This is devastating, Tom, since Beaverton has a population of only about 12,000."
Nice picture you paint of the terror.
"Tom, we're reporting looting, raping and cannibalism."
"Wow, you've actually seen people raping and eating each other?"
"No, Tom, we haven't actually seen it, we're just reporting it. Also, the death toll in Beaverton is around 600,000. This is devastating, Tom, since Beaverton has a population of only about 12,000."
I agree. When I was still on my trial account I went to Sedina and got attacked by player pirates. I got blown to pieces, but thought that to be fair, since I was in gray space. However about a month ago my moth got attacked and killed in Dau by a player pirate. I thought that to be completely unfair because Dau should be the pinnacle of society, a safehaven from wars and violence.
I'd like to add to this discussion the common idea of allowing guilds to set FF codings, to individuals, or even rival guilds, what so that they show up nice and Red. In fact... I will make that suggestion, mwahahaha! Oh... I guess it's too late, I already did. Shucks!
Yes, the IFF system needs a revamp, too. There were some (including me) who suggested this to be done along with the new UI, but apparently it's either not trivial to do, or the devs have bigger fish to fry.
OK, so here is a summary of what I would like to see done to the whole FF issue:
A) Remove the no FF limitation. Completely.
B) Remove corvus station guards. Faction standing with corvus does not go down, making it less useful. Besides I see corvus as a less organised community where each person is there for themselves. Station guards do not make sense there, we already have unbots, and they are enough.
C) Core systems need to be much much better protected. Strenthened station guards. Strike forces that never give up. Perhaps on the very central systems even station-based missile launching platforms that launch salvos of 30 300m/s missiles dealing 2000 damage each at the offenders (this is very expensive and so would only be found on the few very central systems). People might complain that this is too extreme and too powerful, but that is the whole point - it is something you do not escape from alive. Noobs need all the tender love and care we can give them, even if it comes at the price of big fast things that go boom loudly. Obviously the defences a station has will depend on station position and importance, so central systems have amazing defences, grey space have non if any, and the ones in between somewhere in between. Exceptions should be the border stations that have strong defece forces to act against invasions.
D) Allow weapons systems to be powered up and down. Nation-space systems should enforce safety in station sectors. Auto-safety should be an option in the client. Gray space sectors should not enforce this. Violation of this should generate a large warning to turn on safety, and if 5s later the pilot still has not complied (launch the missile salvos)/(send sf/sg after the offender) and kill kill kill.
A) Remove the no FF limitation. Completely.
B) Remove corvus station guards. Faction standing with corvus does not go down, making it less useful. Besides I see corvus as a less organised community where each person is there for themselves. Station guards do not make sense there, we already have unbots, and they are enough.
C) Core systems need to be much much better protected. Strenthened station guards. Strike forces that never give up. Perhaps on the very central systems even station-based missile launching platforms that launch salvos of 30 300m/s missiles dealing 2000 damage each at the offenders (this is very expensive and so would only be found on the few very central systems). People might complain that this is too extreme and too powerful, but that is the whole point - it is something you do not escape from alive. Noobs need all the tender love and care we can give them, even if it comes at the price of big fast things that go boom loudly. Obviously the defences a station has will depend on station position and importance, so central systems have amazing defences, grey space have non if any, and the ones in between somewhere in between. Exceptions should be the border stations that have strong defece forces to act against invasions.
D) Allow weapons systems to be powered up and down. Nation-space systems should enforce safety in station sectors. Auto-safety should be an option in the client. Gray space sectors should not enforce this. Violation of this should generate a large warning to turn on safety, and if 5s later the pilot still has not complied (launch the missile salvos)/(send sf/sg after the offender) and kill kill kill.
I pretty much agree, Antz. All weapons should have a safety. Maybe Corvus should have a few guards, but they only take action if you offend Corvus.
As for the Core system protection, that's really what I want to see. Especially the station defences that aren't guards, that would be great. There should be many levels and options for such mounted defenses, and they should be similar to capital ship defensive weapons.
As for the Core system protection, that's really what I want to see. Especially the station defences that aren't guards, that would be great. There should be many levels and options for such mounted defenses, and they should be similar to capital ship defensive weapons.
Station-based weapons has been discussed to no end on another thread I believe (my search foos are not good enough to find anything in under 60s though), and it makes little difference how they work as long as they work, and I would be surprised if it was not already on the ever expanding todo list. You still want station guards though, they have greater range and can perform a wider range of tasks than just station-based weapons.
You can not really offend Corvus... Short of shooting their station guards there is nothing you can do to offend them, and I am proposing to get rid of the station guards. Accidents happen. Grey is supposed to be unfriendly, hostile, and dangerous. This change is also good because it is (should be?) easy to implement and could be rolled out next week or the week after.
Whilst we are on the subject of Corvus, I would like to say again that there are too many unbots. Not as in too many in the same area, the size of a group is just right now, but there are too many groups. I think they should camp a wh (that is one wh with unnies only), then move on to the next one in half an hour or so, and so on, going up and down gray area. *Then* they can be made more dangerous. Capital ship going around helping them would be good, but not strictly necessary. At the moment they are becoming just another "Oh here we go more useless unbots, I have 45 seconds to jump out". Final unbot-related suggestion, non-corvus gray stations should have an unbot extermination mission. No new suggestions in this paragraph, just re-iterating old and starting to be forgotten suggestions.
You can not really offend Corvus... Short of shooting their station guards there is nothing you can do to offend them, and I am proposing to get rid of the station guards. Accidents happen. Grey is supposed to be unfriendly, hostile, and dangerous. This change is also good because it is (should be?) easy to implement and could be rolled out next week or the week after.
Whilst we are on the subject of Corvus, I would like to say again that there are too many unbots. Not as in too many in the same area, the size of a group is just right now, but there are too many groups. I think they should camp a wh (that is one wh with unnies only), then move on to the next one in half an hour or so, and so on, going up and down gray area. *Then* they can be made more dangerous. Capital ship going around helping them would be good, but not strictly necessary. At the moment they are becoming just another "Oh here we go more useless unbots, I have 45 seconds to jump out". Final unbot-related suggestion, non-corvus gray stations should have an unbot extermination mission. No new suggestions in this paragraph, just re-iterating old and starting to be forgotten suggestions.
The old defense turrets were awesome. Way more strategic than defbots, since you could actually destroy them (with nukes, admittedly), and have unfettered access to a station. Better defenses -and- a built-in mechanism for station war? Sign me up!
Yes.
Antz: Yeah, I know it's been discussed, and it's a good idea. What I really mean by offending Corvus is if stations are capturable/destructible, and you attack the station inteding to destroy or capture it. I think this at least would offend them, and they should have a few strong guards who launch for such an event. They'd have the technology for those guards to have some serious teeth.
I agree about the too many bots, too. I don't know where the link is and I'm short of time, maybe I'll link it later, but I suggested having three to five pirate fleets of various strengths, that can potentially be eliminated (though another would slowly grow). Some of them would have a capital ship leading them. They'd move around and act like a real pirate fleet, attacking groups of people/NPCs that are weaker than they are, and running from stronger forces.
I agree about the too many bots, too. I don't know where the link is and I'm short of time, maybe I'll link it later, but I suggested having three to five pirate fleets of various strengths, that can potentially be eliminated (though another would slowly grow). Some of them would have a capital ship leading them. They'd move around and act like a real pirate fleet, attacking groups of people/NPCs that are weaker than they are, and running from stronger forces.
I think the friendly fire thing is a necessary evil when first starting out... I mean, it's a basic insinct for all newbs that when you hand them a shiny EC-89 with a cannon, they go try it on something. Just imagine if suddenly they could damage their own station guards or other protected ships of their own nation... things would go downhill very quickly, stuck at lvl 0 with no cash and homed in very unfriendly space.
I think friendly fire should be disabled for new players, and they're given the option of turning it on at the end of the tutorial (which should cover the dos and don'ts of killing things and faction standing), and it should be forced on once they reach combat lvl 3.
I think friendly fire should be disabled for new players, and they're given the option of turning it on at the end of the tutorial (which should cover the dos and don'ts of killing things and faction standing), and it should be forced on once they reach combat lvl 3.
Soze, people should be intelligent enough to realize that just flying around shooting at everything that moves or doesn't will entail consequences. I trained quite a few new players who blindly shot at me (not damaging me), ignoring my comments and advice. How I wished for FF to be shut off so that I could show them what it meant to be shot at.
That being said, (no) FF has got to go. It could be disabled for new players for all I care (but deep down, I'm against even that), but once they finish the tutorial, FF is not an option, it's the law. New characters may opt to turn it off right away, to allow for people who know the game to start new characters without having to do the tutorial (although there is no faster way to gain the first level, I think. Don't pin me down on this, I haven't timed it yet).
That being said, (no) FF has got to go. It could be disabled for new players for all I care (but deep down, I'm against even that), but once they finish the tutorial, FF is not an option, it's the law. New characters may opt to turn it off right away, to allow for people who know the game to start new characters without having to do the tutorial (although there is no faster way to gain the first level, I think. Don't pin me down on this, I haven't timed it yet).