Forums » Suggestions
Yes I used plasmadevs pretty damned a lot in pvp although in the end most of the damage then comes from the suns equipped in the small port, but guess what the same happens when i mount a gauss jack combo (most damage coming from the jack)... i preffered plasmadevs above gausses because it made me able to mount a sunflare in its small slot. But last time i checked the hog had a small weaponslot... and to use a ships full combatpotential you need to equip it fully...
If you put nothing in the large port, that is then your own choice. I never stated that you couldn't mount the jack, the megapos, the plasmadev... all I said is that it doesn't need the agt. The GT as always needs a bit of loving before it becomes usuable, which was the reason why i left it out. But the agr makes the hog way better then any other possible permutation of portequipmentoptions... which is not balanced...
Anyway, i have been ctc-ing a moderate amount, and all i have been using is either a gauss- jackhammer or a plasmadev - sun layout. And it is a decent ship seeing that it can maxturbo at 220 (while the hornet is way bulkier and can only fly around 200) (and i'm not even talking about the td hog... which is overpowered and needs to be nerfed...). Like I said, the hog is ok... Anyway the lack of ability in defending the voy has nothing to do with lack in abilities but because convoys die to darned fast...
I know that but the agt is far more powerfull then any other mountable options. Just as I'm reading in between the lines that you prefer the agt on a hog in stead of any other weaponport alternative. And last time i checked, that ain't balanced... But I never stated that it isn't heavy... I stated that it still isn't heavy enough for the power it has. It is better at controlling a zone then lmines which can be shot and run out, swarms which are only htere for 5 dual shotsetc and which as you so nicely pointed out are heavier then other large port weapontypes... So in turn you prove my point that agts are overpowered seeing that they are better alternatives in most cases then mines or swarms but are lighter... doesn't that sound a bot contradictorical?
Anyway, I'm sorry that you feel that way and consider me stupid or dumb just for pointing out an opinion, which to be honest is founded but it will not influence my opinion about a weapon which is overpowered... now we just need to take care to not nerf it to hard... since that would completely make it useless. But it should not be considered to be the all saving equipment option which it is now. Seeing as i see so little variation in weaponports...
PS: I'll counter your question with a rhetorical counterquestion: what good is a cent mk2 if it can't protect the convoy?
If you put nothing in the large port, that is then your own choice. I never stated that you couldn't mount the jack, the megapos, the plasmadev... all I said is that it doesn't need the agt. The GT as always needs a bit of loving before it becomes usuable, which was the reason why i left it out. But the agr makes the hog way better then any other possible permutation of portequipmentoptions... which is not balanced...
Anyway, i have been ctc-ing a moderate amount, and all i have been using is either a gauss- jackhammer or a plasmadev - sun layout. And it is a decent ship seeing that it can maxturbo at 220 (while the hornet is way bulkier and can only fly around 200) (and i'm not even talking about the td hog... which is overpowered and needs to be nerfed...). Like I said, the hog is ok... Anyway the lack of ability in defending the voy has nothing to do with lack in abilities but because convoys die to darned fast...
I know that but the agt is far more powerfull then any other mountable options. Just as I'm reading in between the lines that you prefer the agt on a hog in stead of any other weaponport alternative. And last time i checked, that ain't balanced... But I never stated that it isn't heavy... I stated that it still isn't heavy enough for the power it has. It is better at controlling a zone then lmines which can be shot and run out, swarms which are only htere for 5 dual shotsetc and which as you so nicely pointed out are heavier then other large port weapontypes... So in turn you prove my point that agts are overpowered seeing that they are better alternatives in most cases then mines or swarms but are lighter... doesn't that sound a bot contradictorical?
Anyway, I'm sorry that you feel that way and consider me stupid or dumb just for pointing out an opinion, which to be honest is founded but it will not influence my opinion about a weapon which is overpowered... now we just need to take care to not nerf it to hard... since that would completely make it useless. But it should not be considered to be the all saving equipment option which it is now. Seeing as i see so little variation in weaponports...
PS: I'll counter your question with a rhetorical counterquestion: what good is a cent mk2 if it can't protect the convoy?
Shape:
My point still stands, because what you're suggesting will NOT make combat faster. Think about it - what you're really doing by making weapons faster and ships slower, is encouraging people to stay further back, where - once again - it will be difficult to hit. The reason energy fights LAST son long is because people choose the tactics that make them do so. If you want a fight to be shorter, then get in there, up close and personal. Get in their face and either kill them or be killed. This is always an option... it's just not commonly chosen, because people don't WANT to do that. There exists some psychological instinct of self-preservation that says to the player "Look, if you don't want to die, draw out the fight as loing as you can - don't get hit".
The fact of the matter, is that if you increase the speed of weapons in proportion to the speed of ships, you're giving the people who like to hang back and prolong battles, more incentive to hang even further back. Personally, if a battle is going to be long and drawn out (and there's really no avoiding that with some people) I'd rather have it be long and drawn out in close quarters with faster ships and slower weapons, rather than from a distance with faster weapons and slower ships - that takes all the excitement out of it.
With me, I like to fight up close. With the exception of times when I'm clearly overpowered (like my vulture and medium batt/phase blaster against the sunflare/agt wraith the other day) I'd rather get in close and get things over with fast... and I do so. If you want people to fight closer in and more fiercely, you need to either take away their fear of losing, or you need to forceably back them into a corner where they have no other choice - they just won't do it. The fact that you're complaining about long, drawn-out battles is evidence that you don't do it yourself to a certian extent; how would your proposed changes make things any different?
If you still need clarification on any part of my point, let me know... but that's pretty much it. You can change the ships, you can change the weapons, but you can't change the way people play the game - if you could, things would be better already.
Lebermac:
"Um, right now it definitely favors mindless autoaim spraying. Waltz into B8 and you'll see bunches of SCP's amd Rags. Swarms and AGT are the rule of the day."
The AGT and swarms need specific points of NERFage; they should not be a rule with which to measure the mindless spray-factor of weapon use tendancies.
Specifically, the AGT needs more weight, and the Swarms need smaller payload and a smaller proximity radius, OR about double the firing delay (that would work nicely to stop spamming, don't you think? take away the ability to unleash a killing dose of it quickly enough, yet it wouldn't impede their overall effectiveness in other, more legitimate applications in an attempt to stop peolpe noob-toobing with them)
Think about what Shape is suggesting though: faster weapons velocity, slower ship speeds, and no auto-aim... would this really decrease people's tendancy to use spam (specifically, energy spam), or would it increase it? I would suspect the latter, as more difficulty in hitting something through careful aiming and firing will lead to more frusterating 'spray and pray' techniques being used.
Renegade (kind of off-topic, but I just had to butt-in here):
"fire sun 1, then sun 2 , then sun 3, then sun 1, etc. In the end you will have abigger net, more moments of concussion (and therefore not getting hit back). Otherwise you can use the tripple shot to maximize the first strike by not having to be dead accurate. Same with dual suns, more endurance, same refire rate, more concussion, better for followup hits.
But in potency screamers are better, seeing as they do have the damagedealing potential that surpasses the sun. the only thing holding them back is the very high safety, which makes using them pretty tough."
Yesterday, I took out a Tung Centaur Aggresso in around 5 seconds flat using a pair of jackhammer rockets and a flight of gemenis. Would that be possible using sunflares? even four of them? I don't think so... in that situation, if I hadn't taken him out that quickly, it was not likely I would have survived the encounter - the jackhammers do have a distinct advantage in that way: not only do they kill fast, but they can take the enemy by suprise. I got away with 93% health in my Centaur I... Mogul didn't.
On the subject of screamers, the energy limitation is a greater deterrant than the safety, to say nothing of your decreased chance of hitting, thanks to the significantly shorter proximity range; this is why people use jackhammers in the first place.
CP:
"Look, all I'm going to say is that making the AGT heavier will not solve anything. Yes, it will reduce its effectiveness on the prom as the prom will move slower, but no one considers the effect of having a heavier AGT on the hog. Having a heavier hog only means that you become a sitting target, and the hog will return to being about as useful as it was before being balanced. In otherwords, useless."
Whoever said the hog was meant to be a heavy assault platform that should be able to weild a weapon like the AGT anyway? As it stands, AGT hogts are TREMENDOUSLY overpowered, PRECISELY because they can use that AGT and still dodge most anything you can throw at them, even at moderately close range. The AGT hog is PART OF THE PROBLEM; making the AGT heavier is the solution.
As Renegade pointed out, the AGT is more for the heavy ships - ships like the Rag and Centaur, which NEED the extra auto-aim of the device due to their slow turning speed. The Hog has no need for this extra auto-aim, and so is made too powerful by its addition. Making the AGT heavier will reduce it's effectiveness on the warthog, prom, atlas, mining maud, wraith - ships that don't really need it, without making it too worthless for the ships that are already heavy: Centaur, Ragnarok, Moth - which arguably need the AGT.
The hog is great with jack/gauss, neut/megaposi, even screamers or plasma dev. It's an offensive ship, and a powerful interceptor - it doesn't need the AGT, which is supposed to be more for heavy defense (though, thanks to it's light weight, it really isn't used for that)
Dark Knight:
REBUTTAL:
"Ship speeds need to drop dramatically, in order to make people have to choose their fights more wisely."
-- Incorrect: if you drop ship speeds across the board, you're not making it any more difficult to run, because you're dropping the pursuer's ship speed as well... runnig and travelling will just be slower and more aggrivating, rather than less effective
That said, I think your shields proposition sounds interesting, if not likeable... I would be willing to try it out, Gordon, in the test client...
I'm thinking it should add considerably to the battery drain, but not so much that you can't boost... just enough that you can't boost AWAY from a fight (15-20/sec drain, maybe?) It can't be so much as to significantly impair combat ability, but it would certianly be nice if it was enough to actually give thought to the choice of fighting with/without them as an even tradeoff in some instances (chasing/ambushing an enemy, or fighting in a really light ship) The sheilds should add more to your ship's collision model, of course... so it would be easier to impact one when its sheilds are up. (you could keep the cent small!)
But something like that is definately a Test-client-PoC-first alteration... it could work, or it could screw up combat in ways we havent even thought of yet.
CP (back to you):
Why is the AGT lighter than the advanced rail? does that make sense? Yes, it is heavy, but it should be considerably HEAVIER.
Yes, the hog is best with the AGT... but that's PRECISELY the problem. The reason people prefer to use the AGT on a hog, is that while a hog with a megaposi or jackhammer is effective and competent, a hog with an AGT is insanely deadly. If this weren't the case, you probably wouldn't be defending it so passionately in the first place.
as for the comment on an AGT-less hog being unable to defend a convoy... the Megaposi is far more effective at that anyway - the only downside is that you need to learn how to aim.
if anyone read that long post, have a cookie...
My point still stands, because what you're suggesting will NOT make combat faster. Think about it - what you're really doing by making weapons faster and ships slower, is encouraging people to stay further back, where - once again - it will be difficult to hit. The reason energy fights LAST son long is because people choose the tactics that make them do so. If you want a fight to be shorter, then get in there, up close and personal. Get in their face and either kill them or be killed. This is always an option... it's just not commonly chosen, because people don't WANT to do that. There exists some psychological instinct of self-preservation that says to the player "Look, if you don't want to die, draw out the fight as loing as you can - don't get hit".
The fact of the matter, is that if you increase the speed of weapons in proportion to the speed of ships, you're giving the people who like to hang back and prolong battles, more incentive to hang even further back. Personally, if a battle is going to be long and drawn out (and there's really no avoiding that with some people) I'd rather have it be long and drawn out in close quarters with faster ships and slower weapons, rather than from a distance with faster weapons and slower ships - that takes all the excitement out of it.
With me, I like to fight up close. With the exception of times when I'm clearly overpowered (like my vulture and medium batt/phase blaster against the sunflare/agt wraith the other day) I'd rather get in close and get things over with fast... and I do so. If you want people to fight closer in and more fiercely, you need to either take away their fear of losing, or you need to forceably back them into a corner where they have no other choice - they just won't do it. The fact that you're complaining about long, drawn-out battles is evidence that you don't do it yourself to a certian extent; how would your proposed changes make things any different?
If you still need clarification on any part of my point, let me know... but that's pretty much it. You can change the ships, you can change the weapons, but you can't change the way people play the game - if you could, things would be better already.
Lebermac:
"Um, right now it definitely favors mindless autoaim spraying. Waltz into B8 and you'll see bunches of SCP's amd Rags. Swarms and AGT are the rule of the day."
The AGT and swarms need specific points of NERFage; they should not be a rule with which to measure the mindless spray-factor of weapon use tendancies.
Specifically, the AGT needs more weight, and the Swarms need smaller payload and a smaller proximity radius, OR about double the firing delay (that would work nicely to stop spamming, don't you think? take away the ability to unleash a killing dose of it quickly enough, yet it wouldn't impede their overall effectiveness in other, more legitimate applications in an attempt to stop peolpe noob-toobing with them)
Think about what Shape is suggesting though: faster weapons velocity, slower ship speeds, and no auto-aim... would this really decrease people's tendancy to use spam (specifically, energy spam), or would it increase it? I would suspect the latter, as more difficulty in hitting something through careful aiming and firing will lead to more frusterating 'spray and pray' techniques being used.
Renegade (kind of off-topic, but I just had to butt-in here):
"fire sun 1, then sun 2 , then sun 3, then sun 1, etc. In the end you will have abigger net, more moments of concussion (and therefore not getting hit back). Otherwise you can use the tripple shot to maximize the first strike by not having to be dead accurate. Same with dual suns, more endurance, same refire rate, more concussion, better for followup hits.
But in potency screamers are better, seeing as they do have the damagedealing potential that surpasses the sun. the only thing holding them back is the very high safety, which makes using them pretty tough."
Yesterday, I took out a Tung Centaur Aggresso in around 5 seconds flat using a pair of jackhammer rockets and a flight of gemenis. Would that be possible using sunflares? even four of them? I don't think so... in that situation, if I hadn't taken him out that quickly, it was not likely I would have survived the encounter - the jackhammers do have a distinct advantage in that way: not only do they kill fast, but they can take the enemy by suprise. I got away with 93% health in my Centaur I... Mogul didn't.
On the subject of screamers, the energy limitation is a greater deterrant than the safety, to say nothing of your decreased chance of hitting, thanks to the significantly shorter proximity range; this is why people use jackhammers in the first place.
CP:
"Look, all I'm going to say is that making the AGT heavier will not solve anything. Yes, it will reduce its effectiveness on the prom as the prom will move slower, but no one considers the effect of having a heavier AGT on the hog. Having a heavier hog only means that you become a sitting target, and the hog will return to being about as useful as it was before being balanced. In otherwords, useless."
Whoever said the hog was meant to be a heavy assault platform that should be able to weild a weapon like the AGT anyway? As it stands, AGT hogts are TREMENDOUSLY overpowered, PRECISELY because they can use that AGT and still dodge most anything you can throw at them, even at moderately close range. The AGT hog is PART OF THE PROBLEM; making the AGT heavier is the solution.
As Renegade pointed out, the AGT is more for the heavy ships - ships like the Rag and Centaur, which NEED the extra auto-aim of the device due to their slow turning speed. The Hog has no need for this extra auto-aim, and so is made too powerful by its addition. Making the AGT heavier will reduce it's effectiveness on the warthog, prom, atlas, mining maud, wraith - ships that don't really need it, without making it too worthless for the ships that are already heavy: Centaur, Ragnarok, Moth - which arguably need the AGT.
The hog is great with jack/gauss, neut/megaposi, even screamers or plasma dev. It's an offensive ship, and a powerful interceptor - it doesn't need the AGT, which is supposed to be more for heavy defense (though, thanks to it's light weight, it really isn't used for that)
Dark Knight:
REBUTTAL:
"Ship speeds need to drop dramatically, in order to make people have to choose their fights more wisely."
-- Incorrect: if you drop ship speeds across the board, you're not making it any more difficult to run, because you're dropping the pursuer's ship speed as well... runnig and travelling will just be slower and more aggrivating, rather than less effective
That said, I think your shields proposition sounds interesting, if not likeable... I would be willing to try it out, Gordon, in the test client...
I'm thinking it should add considerably to the battery drain, but not so much that you can't boost... just enough that you can't boost AWAY from a fight (15-20/sec drain, maybe?) It can't be so much as to significantly impair combat ability, but it would certianly be nice if it was enough to actually give thought to the choice of fighting with/without them as an even tradeoff in some instances (chasing/ambushing an enemy, or fighting in a really light ship) The sheilds should add more to your ship's collision model, of course... so it would be easier to impact one when its sheilds are up. (you could keep the cent small!)
But something like that is definately a Test-client-PoC-first alteration... it could work, or it could screw up combat in ways we havent even thought of yet.
CP (back to you):
Why is the AGT lighter than the advanced rail? does that make sense? Yes, it is heavy, but it should be considerably HEAVIER.
Yes, the hog is best with the AGT... but that's PRECISELY the problem. The reason people prefer to use the AGT on a hog, is that while a hog with a megaposi or jackhammer is effective and competent, a hog with an AGT is insanely deadly. If this weren't the case, you probably wouldn't be defending it so passionately in the first place.
as for the comment on an AGT-less hog being unable to defend a convoy... the Megaposi is far more effective at that anyway - the only downside is that you need to learn how to aim.
if anyone read that long post, have a cookie...
/me eats the cookie
i once took out a couple of agressos with a tripple flare hornet and 1 gauss. while the centuar was wielding agt, jacks and flares. The way i did it was just pelting it time after time with my rockets in this way that while it was tumbling about, the next rocketsalvo hit the centaur while rinsing and repeating this.
Like i said, you might take them by surprise yes, but if you get a first hit on a centaur with 1 sun, and you can start netting them like i stated before then it will go down without even hitting you anymore (with the exception of the agt spam). Like i said, everything is possible, just as it had ben able to have ended in the opposite manner. But like always its prefference, and i just prefer to have 24 suns then 12jacks. Just because even if you are good with rockets 100% success doesn't exist, making bigger numbers better in hte end.
And yes screamers are somewhat of a problem because of those reasons, but please don't forget that the screamers shine agaisnt the bigger targets like for instance the rag or the centaur just because they can be mixed with gaussshots and confuse people as to what is being fired or just get taken by surprise by its sheer speed. Although it ain't really easy to hit with them. But if they hit, it hurts...
i once took out a couple of agressos with a tripple flare hornet and 1 gauss. while the centuar was wielding agt, jacks and flares. The way i did it was just pelting it time after time with my rockets in this way that while it was tumbling about, the next rocketsalvo hit the centaur while rinsing and repeating this.
Like i said, you might take them by surprise yes, but if you get a first hit on a centaur with 1 sun, and you can start netting them like i stated before then it will go down without even hitting you anymore (with the exception of the agt spam). Like i said, everything is possible, just as it had ben able to have ended in the opposite manner. But like always its prefference, and i just prefer to have 24 suns then 12jacks. Just because even if you are good with rockets 100% success doesn't exist, making bigger numbers better in hte end.
And yes screamers are somewhat of a problem because of those reasons, but please don't forget that the screamers shine agaisnt the bigger targets like for instance the rag or the centaur just because they can be mixed with gaussshots and confuse people as to what is being fired or just get taken by surprise by its sheer speed. Although it ain't really easy to hit with them. But if they hit, it hurts...
Di synth:
I fight that way as well, as anyone who has fought me will tell you. But the reason why the long distance tactics that they've chosen work is because they're designed to mess with autoaim at long range. The problem is, currently, they WORK. (not well, but for longevity, it still takes a bit.)
Slower ships, faster weapons means that its harder to get to that distance, if you get close range, you're probably going to stay at close range. And you can always boost to get inside.
People who WANT to stay back, will ALWAYS stay back, but the current system rewards them far more richly than they deserve.
People already spam at long range, aim near the yellow thing and empty a battery. At close range, you don't need the aim as much.
(I would also like to repeat my earlier accusation that Rene doesn't play enough to have this many comments)
(Synth: I would also like to direct your suggestions regarding the AGT to Cunjo and CrippledPigeon, who have posted in this thread about the weapon. They both use it more than most, and I stand by their points)
I fight that way as well, as anyone who has fought me will tell you. But the reason why the long distance tactics that they've chosen work is because they're designed to mess with autoaim at long range. The problem is, currently, they WORK. (not well, but for longevity, it still takes a bit.)
Slower ships, faster weapons means that its harder to get to that distance, if you get close range, you're probably going to stay at close range. And you can always boost to get inside.
People who WANT to stay back, will ALWAYS stay back, but the current system rewards them far more richly than they deserve.
People already spam at long range, aim near the yellow thing and empty a battery. At close range, you don't need the aim as much.
(I would also like to repeat my earlier accusation that Rene doesn't play enough to have this many comments)
(Synth: I would also like to direct your suggestions regarding the AGT to Cunjo and CrippledPigeon, who have posted in this thread about the weapon. They both use it more than most, and I stand by their points)
Shape, its a discussionforum last time I checked. And in discussionforas I can make as many posts as I want. And me playing 1 hour, 2 hours or 200 hours has no bearing on that.
As long as ht epoints I'm making follow some logic that is based on in game facts then it is all right. Not to mention that the agt hasn't changed in forever... so even if I hadn't been playing that would have not been a discussable point.
As long as ht epoints I'm making follow some logic that is based on in game facts then it is all right. Not to mention that the agt hasn't changed in forever... so even if I hadn't been playing that would have not been a discussable point.
The problem is that logic can take you many places. And since, I've only seen you flying a prom, I don't know that I hold much stock in
what you're sayin here.
The AGT may not have changed, but EVERYTHING around it has. The entire game in fact.
what you're sayin here.
The AGT may not have changed, but EVERYTHING around it has. The entire game in fact.
I have practically never flown a prom..., the ships that i did fly quite excessively were in descending order: hornet, valk/marauder, rag, vult, hog, atlas, wraith then all the other ships. only occasion that i did fly a prom mk2 (loaded without an agt even but with dual gausses - jack or plasmadev dual sun) was during capturing of ctc cargo near the end of the week and that was mostly because it was as decent as a hog, had more armor and a bigger cargobay.
besides it hasn't really altered that much, i know that for a fact...
besides it hasn't really altered that much, i know that for a fact...
your facts are outdated...
Shape, i wasn't the one being flat out wrong in the generalisation of me flying a prom... which in turn points out about who isn't playing enough...
Not to mention that its easy to brush away valid points by saying your point isn't valid, even although even yoda didn't completely think your proposal would remedy it. And he is a person that has a general tendency to play a lot.
So i suggest to come of your high horse of elitetisme and accept that not everyhting goes your way... its what I do... although still voicing my opinion but not stating that someone elses opinion is blindly BS because I can't think of anything else to rebut his facts.
And once more there hasn't been a really big change in the balancing of the ships in between the points that I haven't played... the only adjustment was the rebalancing of suns/star/iceflares. But for the rest of the minor adjustments, I was preent...
Not to mention that its easy to brush away valid points by saying your point isn't valid, even although even yoda didn't completely think your proposal would remedy it. And he is a person that has a general tendency to play a lot.
So i suggest to come of your high horse of elitetisme and accept that not everyhting goes your way... its what I do... although still voicing my opinion but not stating that someone elses opinion is blindly BS because I can't think of anything else to rebut his facts.
And once more there hasn't been a really big change in the balancing of the ships in between the points that I haven't played... the only adjustment was the rebalancing of suns/star/iceflares. But for the rest of the minor adjustments, I was preent...
There's no elitism. Rene, you DON'T PLAY. The only time I have EVER fought you, was when you were in a prom. You were hanging out with Lin in a prom, and it was Months ago.
Yoda wasn't disagreeing with my point, he said he wanted to see it tested. I'd like to see it too.
And I have made my point, but my points aren't worth much when you casually brush them away. And its infuriating that you don't actually practice with any of these to know what works and what doesn't.
Yoda wasn't disagreeing with my point, he said he wanted to see it tested. I'd like to see it too.
And I have made my point, but my points aren't worth much when you casually brush them away. And its infuriating that you don't actually practice with any of these to know what works and what doesn't.
Shape, thats not my fault... i was playing during that time for nearly 15 hours a day and this for 2 - 3 months... and if we then don't fight... its not my fault although we did have had other fights, I remember fighting your MGC with my hornet and beating it although it was close. But even so I never pointed out that I am a skilled fighter, but just that that is my opinion and because of x or y as reason since it works for me.
once more, why do you think I don't play? What makes you think that I would keep to 1 char... I know that you don't keep to 1 char either...
Yoda wanted to see it tested agreed, but he still stated that for the moment he didn't think that was the route to balance, but was hoping he would be incorrect. So he was in effect disagreeing but hoping on being incorrect himself...
Anyway your points are worth just as much as my points are for you. I brush them off and try to give a reason based on facts, but you brush them off with the point that I'm not playing... which is a blatant lie... But at least I leave you to your opinion, I don't make you have to see like I do or just dismiss everything a person says just in the mood of: I'm correct and your always incorrect its the only way it can be.
PS: I hope the sigarette eased your nerves a bit.
PPS: if you still don't beleive me, ask incarnate to see if my account has been played recently...
once more, why do you think I don't play? What makes you think that I would keep to 1 char... I know that you don't keep to 1 char either...
Yoda wanted to see it tested agreed, but he still stated that for the moment he didn't think that was the route to balance, but was hoping he would be incorrect. So he was in effect disagreeing but hoping on being incorrect himself...
Anyway your points are worth just as much as my points are for you. I brush them off and try to give a reason based on facts, but you brush them off with the point that I'm not playing... which is a blatant lie... But at least I leave you to your opinion, I don't make you have to see like I do or just dismiss everything a person says just in the mood of: I'm correct and your always incorrect its the only way it can be.
PS: I hope the sigarette eased your nerves a bit.
PPS: if you still don't beleive me, ask incarnate to see if my account has been played recently...
Well all I can say is that if the AGT is all that uber, then why don't I have have as good a kill ratio as shape? Or for that matter, why don't I even have 500 kills? Just so you people know, I have 411 pks and 825 deaths. So accounting for maybe 100 deaths to bots (100 is probably way high, but it's a nice number), I still die nearly twice for every kill that I get.
Does that indicate that the AGT is uber?
And if the Hog isn't supposed to mount heavy weapons, then why does it have a large port? All I can say is try fighting a light fighter like the IBG in the hog without using rockets, swarms, or the AGT.
Or better yet, try the AGT-lite, otherwise known as the Gatling Cannon.
(if you're curious, ctishman and I faced off with my Hog mounting only a GC, and his Atlas X carrying the GC and a TPG Sparrow. The fight took probably 15 minutes, and while I killed him, we mutually exploded)
Does that indicate that the AGT is uber?
And if the Hog isn't supposed to mount heavy weapons, then why does it have a large port? All I can say is try fighting a light fighter like the IBG in the hog without using rockets, swarms, or the AGT.
Or better yet, try the AGT-lite, otherwise known as the Gatling Cannon.
(if you're curious, ctishman and I faced off with my Hog mounting only a GC, and his Atlas X carrying the GC and a TPG Sparrow. The fight took probably 15 minutes, and while I killed him, we mutually exploded)
Shape:
"I fight that way as well, as anyone who has fought me will tell you. But the reason why the long distance tactics that they've chosen work is because they're designed to mess with autoaim at long range. The problem is, currently, they WORK. (not well, but for longevity, it still takes a bit.)
...
People who WANT to stay back, will ALWAYS stay back, but the current system rewards them far more richly than they deserve."
Then turn it off? there's a toggle for that for a reason... when faced with people who take advantage of that, just press the damn : key... it's what I do.
"Synth: I would also like to direct your suggestions regarding the AGT to Cunjo and CrippledPigeon, who have posted in this thread about the weapon. They both use it more than most, and I stand by their points"
well, actually, my point is pretty much exactly what Synth said with regards to the AGT... yea, I use it a lot, and I completely agree that it could use some mass nerfage... for one, I commonly use it on a Rag, yet lighter, less-powerful ships remain too maneuverable when carrying the AGT to win against them that way. The rag with the AGT isn't overpowered - at least 75% of my kills are made with my rockets (primary offensive weapon), another 5-10% with missiles. The AGT only takes down very few of my opponents. On a Warthog, or prom, the AGT is typically responsible for at LEAST half the kills, because coupled with those ships' maneuverability, the AGT can be brought in to frighteningly close range without significantly endangering the pilot... this needs to change. Light and medium assault ships should be heavily impaired by the AGT.
I'm also all for decreasing the thrust on the prom as well to help with the AGT-nerfage.
Oh, and Crip..
use the rockets. they're at least as effective against the lights... yes, the hog is designed to mount heavy weapons, but the AGT is what would more accurately be considered a SUPER heavy weapon... it should play the part.
Rene:
I will forever love my Jacks...
"I fight that way as well, as anyone who has fought me will tell you. But the reason why the long distance tactics that they've chosen work is because they're designed to mess with autoaim at long range. The problem is, currently, they WORK. (not well, but for longevity, it still takes a bit.)
...
People who WANT to stay back, will ALWAYS stay back, but the current system rewards them far more richly than they deserve."
Then turn it off? there's a toggle for that for a reason... when faced with people who take advantage of that, just press the damn : key... it's what I do.
"Synth: I would also like to direct your suggestions regarding the AGT to Cunjo and CrippledPigeon, who have posted in this thread about the weapon. They both use it more than most, and I stand by their points"
well, actually, my point is pretty much exactly what Synth said with regards to the AGT... yea, I use it a lot, and I completely agree that it could use some mass nerfage... for one, I commonly use it on a Rag, yet lighter, less-powerful ships remain too maneuverable when carrying the AGT to win against them that way. The rag with the AGT isn't overpowered - at least 75% of my kills are made with my rockets (primary offensive weapon), another 5-10% with missiles. The AGT only takes down very few of my opponents. On a Warthog, or prom, the AGT is typically responsible for at LEAST half the kills, because coupled with those ships' maneuverability, the AGT can be brought in to frighteningly close range without significantly endangering the pilot... this needs to change. Light and medium assault ships should be heavily impaired by the AGT.
I'm also all for decreasing the thrust on the prom as well to help with the AGT-nerfage.
Oh, and Crip..
use the rockets. they're at least as effective against the lights... yes, the hog is designed to mount heavy weapons, but the AGT is what would more accurately be considered a SUPER heavy weapon... it should play the part.
Rene:
I will forever love my Jacks...
/me does the conga :D
no problem cunjo, as i said its personal preference ;), i just prefer the sunnies :D. Ow and change the Synth quote to shape please since you made a little cough up in the quotes ;).
And shape one more thing, like i stated i did on occasion fly it in ctc, but it was always the mk2 (seeing as i didn't have access to the mk3 or the scp and i consider flying one just plain blah). Everytimùe i used it, i only had 3 equipment versions, being the plasmadev + dual sunflare, the dual gauss and jackhammer or lastly a dual sunflare + repair gun. And i have a feeling you can't say that the prom is if you compare that one with a rag or a cent agresso equipped with agts (which seems to be a staple) is redicolously overpowered.
PS cp I'm not even going to bother answerring on that, I'm sure that you know prolly already what i think about it.
no problem cunjo, as i said its personal preference ;), i just prefer the sunnies :D. Ow and change the Synth quote to shape please since you made a little cough up in the quotes ;).
And shape one more thing, like i stated i did on occasion fly it in ctc, but it was always the mk2 (seeing as i didn't have access to the mk3 or the scp and i consider flying one just plain blah). Everytimùe i used it, i only had 3 equipment versions, being the plasmadev + dual sunflare, the dual gauss and jackhammer or lastly a dual sunflare + repair gun. And i have a feeling you can't say that the prom is if you compare that one with a rag or a cent agresso equipped with agts (which seems to be a staple) is redicolously overpowered.
PS cp I'm not even going to bother answerring on that, I'm sure that you know prolly already what i think about it.
renegade: And i have a feeling you can't say that the prom is if you compare that one with a rag or a cent agresso equipped with agts (which seems to be a staple) is redicolously overpowered.
well then wouldn't the problem lie not in the AGT itself, but in the prom?
well then wouldn't the problem lie not in the AGT itself, but in the prom?
Nope, its the combination of prom and agt. Meaning having the agility to be able to use the agt so offensively that it completely nullifies their respective disadvantages. While the other type of large port weapons don't offer this opportunity. This doesn't form problem with the agt on centaurs and rags seeing that even with the agt their disadvantage is not completely nullified. Although the prom mk2 , mk3 and scp might be adjusted a little bit downwards. The standard prom is ok though.
And you can make the same presumption for the hog. It has a decent enough manouvrability that it doesn't need the extra oumph from the agt. In actuallity if you use some of the other weaponportoptions it is still able to do reasonable well.
And you can make the same presumption for the hog. It has a decent enough manouvrability that it doesn't need the extra oumph from the agt. In actuallity if you use some of the other weaponportoptions it is still able to do reasonable well.
Since I use basically the same loadouts as Shape and tend to fly the same kind of ships, albeit with ...ahem... differing results, I think that slower ships and faster weapons would definitely help me out. Hell my aim is so bad that half the time I don't even notice that my autoaim is off.
But reducing the autoaim cone would definitely let me get inside those Prom's turning radii and blast the crap outta THEM for once.
The autoaim cone for an AGT on the Rag doesn't bother me because it turns soooo slow. Nor does it bother me on the Hog, for some reason. Does a Prom turn faster than a Hog? If it does, THAT's not right.
But reducing the autoaim cone would definitely let me get inside those Prom's turning radii and blast the crap outta THEM for once.
The autoaim cone for an AGT on the Rag doesn't bother me because it turns soooo slow. Nor does it bother me on the Hog, for some reason. Does a Prom turn faster than a Hog? If it does, THAT's not right.
Cunjo, you wrote earlier that you felt that the problem with AGT is tracking speed, has that changed?
In addition, what do you think makes it so hard to dodge those rockets? AGT prevents long strafes. Because of it, and the ability to aim it, and rockets independently, its a field day with rockets.
As far as autoaim, I DO turn it off, but, smaller cones would make this kind of thing less drastic, I'm not worried about me, I just don't look forward to combat with a bunch of noobs that don't know how to fight against it. They'll all start doing it, and combat will be dreadfully dull.
I took my hog into battle, charged a flarevult, held the fire button down the entire time, I would get smacked with rockets and spin, but the AGT would KEEP HITTING. Does that seem right to you?
Rene: the MGC is a joke ship, its have fun with rockets day.
I imagine you DO have alts. But I also know that you still don't fight. I checked our lists, you haven't been on with a main char is well over a month.
61478 Renegade ++RIP++ Time last seen 63 days, 8 hours
From our database.
That's a LONG time to never use your main char.
In addition, what do you think makes it so hard to dodge those rockets? AGT prevents long strafes. Because of it, and the ability to aim it, and rockets independently, its a field day with rockets.
As far as autoaim, I DO turn it off, but, smaller cones would make this kind of thing less drastic, I'm not worried about me, I just don't look forward to combat with a bunch of noobs that don't know how to fight against it. They'll all start doing it, and combat will be dreadfully dull.
I took my hog into battle, charged a flarevult, held the fire button down the entire time, I would get smacked with rockets and spin, but the AGT would KEEP HITTING. Does that seem right to you?
Rene: the MGC is a joke ship, its have fun with rockets day.
I imagine you DO have alts. But I also know that you still don't fight. I checked our lists, you haven't been on with a main char is well over a month.
61478 Renegade ++RIP++ Time last seen 63 days, 8 hours
From our database.
That's a LONG time to never use your main char.
I changed my main after i resubmitted. And have gone through 4 alts since november I only logged once on my so called main char since i needed a char closer to the ctc cargo and my others didn't either have the levels or weren't close to the ctc spots just yet.
The mgc can be a joke ship, but as you demonstrated properly you had killed many in it, and i just indicated it because you bluntly stated that you had fought me in nothing else but a prom...so it was a rebuttal as i could give some others, like my hornet agaisnt your rev c, my vult agaisnt your rev c, etc...
<quote>
I'm not worried about me, I just don't look forward to combat with a bunch of noobs that don't know how to fight against it.
</quote>
you started out as noob as well shape... never forget that. And you have been playing for a pretty damn long time and have put yourself over this autoaim stuff so why do you think newbies shouldn't be able to do so once they play long enough? But for the moment it helps them with coming in the game and having a fair chance agaisnt people that play a bit longer.
PS: I wish to see those list because the mathematics or statistical schemes they are build on sure are crooked. Like I said, if you don't beleive me ask alkon... I'm getting severely tired of you presuming to know better what I am doing then I would know it...
The mgc can be a joke ship, but as you demonstrated properly you had killed many in it, and i just indicated it because you bluntly stated that you had fought me in nothing else but a prom...so it was a rebuttal as i could give some others, like my hornet agaisnt your rev c, my vult agaisnt your rev c, etc...
<quote>
I'm not worried about me, I just don't look forward to combat with a bunch of noobs that don't know how to fight against it.
</quote>
you started out as noob as well shape... never forget that. And you have been playing for a pretty damn long time and have put yourself over this autoaim stuff so why do you think newbies shouldn't be able to do so once they play long enough? But for the moment it helps them with coming in the game and having a fair chance agaisnt people that play a bit longer.
PS: I wish to see those list because the mathematics or statistical schemes they are build on sure are crooked. Like I said, if you don't beleive me ask alkon... I'm getting severely tired of you presuming to know better what I am doing then I would know it...
No, my point about new players was that the autoaim feature actually allows more experienced players to take advantage of their weaker knowledge of the game, and lets the more experienced players use rolls etc... in such a way that players who have had no experience with autoaim off are completely screwed.
I DID get over it, after a very long time, and numerous moments of frustration. What you said is like the argument that Black students in the US are given the same opportunities as everyone else, based on the fact that there are examples of people who have overcome it.
As far as your veiled point that I fly only Rev C's, that's just patently false. People know me in one because my record is good, but the truth is, that I fly that rarely.
Like I said, you may have alts, but you clearly PvP sparsely, between your affinity for trading and your admission that you don't think it has "changed much since you were involved."
Furthermore, you weren't flying a hornet, you were flying a prom.
Finally, the statistics are based on logon logoff times, which we do track. Call them crooked if you like, but they're true.
I DID get over it, after a very long time, and numerous moments of frustration. What you said is like the argument that Black students in the US are given the same opportunities as everyone else, based on the fact that there are examples of people who have overcome it.
As far as your veiled point that I fly only Rev C's, that's just patently false. People know me in one because my record is good, but the truth is, that I fly that rarely.
Like I said, you may have alts, but you clearly PvP sparsely, between your affinity for trading and your admission that you don't think it has "changed much since you were involved."
Furthermore, you weren't flying a hornet, you were flying a prom.
Finally, the statistics are based on logon logoff times, which we do track. Call them crooked if you like, but they're true.