Spell... yes... I use MPs all the time on my taur.

Fooz- I take it that the MP isn't a good reason to fly a heavy or med over a light?

And as for Nerfing AGT... It would be better to nerf flares methinks... except... that these are 2 weapons which make fighting lights that much easier... But... if you have to nerf the AGT, just bring the cone down a bit like Shape suggests...

fooz: the gt is a joke of a weapon, it involves limited skill, with major rewards.

Here is my all-in-one suggestions for Large weapons to get the gray matter going, in a nice easily digestable nugget!

Goal : Get other people to use OTHER L ports other than jacks and GT and MP.

(a) AGT : Nerf the cone and lower the damage by 50%. Lower the drain (yeap). Don't reduce the rate of fire : it's fun to spray a around bit! The idea is the reduce the dmg/second done by this thing. This gun is so ridiculously overpowered that even then, people will fly them I am sure.

(b) PlasmaDev : Increase the damage by x1.5, and lower the mass by 500kg. But increase the energy drain by x2 This gun needs some serious lovin'. Make each shot counts and you win.

(c) Screamers : Can we get rid of the weird energy drain?

(d) Lport Rail : Yes. Spellcast's idea is great. A penta-rail rag will be awesome to fly.

Eat well!

I'm still for the "original" suggestion of nerfing Shape: http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/8/11971#144947

^_^;

softy: Or, the devs could just make more L-port weapons. How about an energy weapon that has a force push to it? Or a real flak cannon that fires multiple bursts/shot (think Unreal Tournament 2003/2004)? Or what about a low-power beam weapon? There's quite a bit of unexplored territory there...

i have to agree a low power beam weapon would be the most logicle solution to the GT is over used issue. unfortunately it will be difficult ti make a beem weapon that isn't overpowered. i think it would have to do very litle damage or have an excessive firing delay (perhaps as much as 5 or 10 seconds) that way it could kill light fighters esly, but would be ineffestice aginst heavier ships (thus preventing it from being an all perpus solution)

anyway, my point about tactics and the idea of fighting at ranges over 200m is mainly to point out that just because the normal scenario lets the prom win a dis perportanate amont of the time doesn't in and of itself mean that it has to be nerfed. the prom is killable. the deciding factor is who is the better pilot with their ship. i've used proms and found them to be rather ineffective (because i don't have the pratice with proms and prom tactics). if you pilot your hog or your valk or youe maud, etc. better than your oponrnt pilots his prom you canj and will win.

I will say that the AGT is horribly over-powered, though. It's scary to see a prom using an AGT to shoot vertically 50 degrees outside its fov. Especially since the little turret-gun on the prom is mounted below the nose...

The AGT cannot be nerfed without viable alternatives on heavy ships.

the easiest way to do a beam weapon, make it viable, AND keep it balanced (IMO) is to give it EXTREMELY low range, but very HIGH aiming arc. add high mass and low damage.

Something like....

Range 100m
Damage 500/shot
Mass 1500 (2000?)
refire .75
Aiming cone of the AGT.

The beams fire for about a quarter of a second when fired (for graphics)

Distance control becomes a must when fighting one of these, but in terms of DPS its fairly low. (and the number is 666 damage per second, which is just kinda cool) but its an almost gaurenteed hit if you can get your target in range.

As for the cop-out that the AGT takes no skill to use, you are correct, but you forget the point that it also requires you to use a heavy ship, and heavy ships ARE harder to use than the light ships. Any retard can hop into an orion cent or an IBG and roll/strafe around firing a constant stream of energy, that doesnt take a whole hell of a lot of skill either since the sheer speed of the ships lets you avoid most damage.

FFS, plz no beams...

And the only problem with GT is the prom abuses it extremely well. Cut its thrust a bit and be done with it.

Yeah, what fooz says. Please, no beam weapons. Don't replace a weapon that is already nuts with a weapon that is even more nuts. Why fly rails if you have an uber instant hit, no aim-required weapon?

How does a 100m beam weapon obsolete rails?

Oh come on, Heavy Ships are NOT harder to use, they're just different. The Rev C is a weak example. Light fighters and midrange fighters suffer because of how obscene the AGT and flares are.

Sure anyone can be fast in a Rev C. But then its easy to hit those "morons" with AGT and Flares.

a 100m cone around a Prom? That takes away the one beauty of light fighters, the ability to outmaneuver at close range.

You want to make it so that ALL fighters just hang back and lob shots over the divide?

I'm not as scared of fighting 2 Rev C's as I am of fighting multiple heavies. Its impossible, the pilot can be weak, but with AGT, all they have to do is boost towards me and fire, same thing with flares.

The AGT covers up heavy ships only weak spot, close range. The interesting Heavy fights are trying to get inside their range. It's dangerous for the light fighter, and if the Heavy isn't careful, its dangerous for them too.

There's no skill in Rolling and strafing in a light fighter at long range, but there IS skill at keeping your opponent off-balance at close range.

If the former is, as you say, without merit, then why are we nerfing the latter?

If you don't *want* them inside of 100m, it can be extremely difficult to get within 100m. Especially if you're flying a ship that HAS an L port, because those ships are nearly all slower than their S port counterparts.

That said, I like the AGT because it makes me do less work with aiming. Aiming is already too "spray and pray"ish. Maybe that's just me, but I also think that is in part because of the poor mouse style.

Heh. If this uber no-escape-possible-within-100m gun ever gets into production, then all ships will just stick outside 100m and spam. Now, how fun would that be :D.

\me is a retard.

Yes, anyone can jump in a rev c or IBG and zoom around and be semi-difficult to hit, but how often do these "hacks" aim well enough to hit anything while they're doing this?

I have to agree with Shape and Holden here, a gun like that would take away the only advantage that light ships have over heavy ships. GT is already pretty effective at that anyways. However, uncledave does have a point. Although proms and rags would still be effective with a nerfed AGT (proms would just take a bit more skill to use, this needs to happen anyways) the ship that would really suffer is the hog. AGT or maybe Jacks are the only weapons hogs have to fend off cents. Even with a megaposi hog it's near impossible to beat a cent. Now if cents got that armor adjustment, I don't think it would be as much of a problem. But the cents armor can't be adjusted until the prom gets fixed anyhow.

I still like my much more drastic rebalance option in that other thread, (theres a link to it somewhere in this one)

Maybe what the game really needs is a serious wack with the big-stick-0-factionsystem-fixing. I'd go for a decent (-40N? -60N?) thrust reduction on the prom IF there was also a severe armor reduction (at least -3K) on the rev-c and IBG cents.

and the beam weapon above was just a set of stats to give an idea of how a beam weapon COULD be made balanced and still mounted on a fighter.

I say we slow everything down by the 5% or whatever, and see if AGT is still too powerful. I'm in favor of many big changes, but for the most part, seems they aren't what we're looking for.

I think to make a beam wep balanced, it would require:

A) Heavy energy usage
B) Limited Range
C) No autoaim

Basically turning it into a Close range rail

Just for the record, I completely agree with your balance suggestions spell, and I have agreed with them ever since you came up with them ages ago. I just wish they would get some attention.

shameless plug for: SPELLCAST'S BALANCE THREAD

now if i could only find it again.