Spellcast, look at how Matriarch flies any Prom. there is *no* spin torque used at all. aiming is almost purely done with strafing. it is the strafing power alone that does the job. it makes you hard to hit while at the same time giving you a very good lead on your target since you don't overstear the prom like most poeple do.

if people fly SCPs based on their spin torque today even I've killed them -- and done so with a quad rail hornet. get them to overextend themselves, wait for them to haul themselves in, fire, slide away. rinse, lather, repeat. the downside is that someone who flies like Martin (highly aggressive, blow for blow) or Matriarch (strafe and lead) you have to run to live. and heck, I don't mind that at all. it's what the SCP does.

what annoys me more is that in multies, the most effective way of stopping any ship is to spam it, either with flares or swarms. when we get fights with 20-50 people in it, imagine that with a couple of swarm-spammers on each side and half the players using flares...

terjekv: i fly my prom the same way, but the fact is that its much HARDER to fly a prom that way, it takes, ya know, this thing called skill.

Any idiot can take advantage of the rediculous spin torque and the aiming cone of an AGT, combined with the massive armor of the prom to basically force thier opponent to HAVE TO be 'perfect' if they want to win. To me the prom should be a damn tank, hard to steer, hard to kill, and lethal if you get in front of it. (and it IS possible to get in close on matriarch and get behind him, at which point he whips around with the rediculous spin and forces you out of close range)

the problem is that without the prom, the IBG and rev-C cents quickly become THE dominant ships. We cant balance the ships against each other directly, it will never work right because there are just too many possible combos to consider.

I still think the ships need to be balanced against a 'role' or a 'function' ala http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/10941

"Look, we can't keep buffing things. We've already got a few ships which are a bit too fast."

buff does not nesesarilyt need to mean make it faster. the problem with the maud is it has no role at which it is a dominate ship (the valk is a better fighter, the moth a better hauler, and the centaur a better multi-perpus platform) but that's neither here nore there.

"if you are hitting things at 200m, it's not because your aim rules, it's because your opponent does not know how to dodge :D."

it's actualy a combination. scoring a hir from 200+m is partly aim, a lot of luck, and mostly timing. stor firing for a while and wate for your oponent's coarse to stabalise (whilke they line up a shot or use turbo)

"and btw, if you do backroll, you should know that you're hittable by agt, all they have to do it turn off autoaim and spray into your roll. BAM hit after hit."

only if you are too close the maximum range of an AGT is around 200m and besides what i call "bacrolling" is realy any manuver where you move backwards continiously, while dodging, that allows for a lot of variation in actual inplementation.

and finaly if something must be nerfed why not make it the flairs?

try cutting the proxcimity down a little on sunflairs see if that doesn't soften up the prom and valk a bit.

Lord Q says (with corrected speeling (sic)) : it's actually a combination. scoring a hit from 200+m is partly aim, a lot of luck, and mostly timing. Stop firing for a while and wait for your opponent's course to stabilise (while they line up a shot or use turbo).

Heh, notice that your 3 conditions are all contradictory :P.

The energy weapon with highest velocity is 215m/s. That, on average (since you might be moving relative to one anoother), gives your opponent about 1 second to dodge at 200m. 1 second is plenty of time. Not only that, a slight change in velocity will throw the aim off by a huge amount at that distance, since your firing cone gets larger at longer distances. One way to hope to get a hit is to turn off autoaim and spam around (which is what a smart AGT user would do, which is why AGT is so overpowerful at all distances). But even then, you are basically hoping for a complacent opponent to get lazy.

And, of course you can hit them if they turbo or line up a shot, both which are phrases for "not dodging". =p, so don't do that since the former is silly and the latter is just wasting energy to shoot at 200m+.

Spell:

As UDave will tell you, it doesn't take much to line up again in a prom, you just back up. You don't have to have an insane spin torque to fix it, but I'm not against droppin that.

Lord Q:

So maybe the Maud should get some advantages, but the point stands, you can't improve things continuously, here or there, you have to be willing to give some stuff up.

As far as hitting people at range, seeing as a lot of luck is involved, the AGT without autoaim IS better, that randomness/spray makes it harder to judge where to dodge.

Ships should be balanced around the idea that combat is going to take place under 200 m. Cuz anything outside of that is just silly. Where's the fun for either pilot in that kind of fight? Its a coin toss. Whomever's arm finally croaks and won't hit the keys anymore dies.

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The maud should be more interesting, I'm personally in favor of dropping its stats a lil bit, and upping its turbothrust tremendously. Make the thing accelerate insanely quickly, but an brick in combat.

Now, I'm not saying we should up its speed, I think the thing should max out at 220. But it should hit that fast, with drain to compensate for runners.

pft, 200m is a decent range to hit things at. you poeple just need *adapt* and use *real* weapons, not those silly AAPs and stuff. *cough*

Hehe.

i killed a prom last night.
if i can kill a prom, anyone can kill a prom.

More accurately, if *I* can kill a Prometheus, anyone can.

Did it a few weeks ago. A-Dawg's, in fact >.>

I would think dropping the armor on the prom would help balance it pretty well. I can hit it, the problem is I can never hit it enough.

umm, wow... long thread... already.

can't believe I haven't had my say yet.

I'm more or less with Kix at this point, though I say that rather than hitting the spin torque of the prom, the thrust needs to take a hit.

strafing makes the prom, not spinning. knocking back the thrust slightly will do two things at once: it makes it less maneuverable when it'c carrying heavy weapons or cargo (decreases the desirability of AGT) and it slows the change of velocity when strafing, making it hittable in head-on engagements from ranges far enough back to survive the AGT.

so...

1) cut back the fire rate of the AGT slightly
2) cut the prom's armor slightly
3) reduce its thrust slightly

i say NO to cutting the AGT rate of fire, its the only decent (energy) weapon for heavy ships as it is. I'd double its mass instead so it has a greater impact.

while i'm mentioning the lack of heavy weapons tho, can we PLEASE have some form of heavy railgun. something in the 500 velocity, 6k damage, 250 energy/shot, 3 second refire, 3k mass, no autoaim, 8 ammo range?

since when is the megaposi not a decent energy weapon for heavy ships?

The MegaPosi is better suited for light ships than heavies, except that it's an L port weapon. Its low mass would fit well in a light ship, and the autoaim angle of fire, which is pretty small on the MegaPosi, is less important for light ships than for heavy ships. The MegaPosi is indeed a decent weapon for heavy ships, but the much wider autoaim angle of fire on the AGT makes it much better suited for heavy ships.

Beo, the only problem with the Megaposi on a light ship is its damage/energy ratio. It does 1200 damage per shot. Can you imagine an IBG chainfiring two megaposis? Which are coming at you @ 210? That and they weight the same as aap's.

I know, I'm not saying it should be changed to an S port weapon, I'm saying that if it was an option, it'd be more effective in a light ship than a heavy.

I'd much rather have an alternative to AGT, personally, I hate the thing.

And MPs are more than just decent.

I have nothing against the megaposi, its a GREAT anti-capital ship weapon, but have you tried putting one on a prom (or a centaur or a rag) and going into combat against light ships with it. *shudder*

the ONLY ship it really does well in fighter to fighter combat on is the warthog, and i'd hardly call that a heavy.

The agt has needed a little change for a long time.

And lets face it, its either that or the flares, cuz as they are, its the easiest combo to just win with.

AGT wouldn't be completely nerfed with a lower rate of fire,
But I think it probably makes more sense to cut the aiming cone a lil bit. After all, that's what makes it so that you don't have to turn, just drop the aiming cone a little bit, and suddenly they have to rely on their spin torque a bit more.

The GT is one of few reasons to fly a medium or heavy ship instead of a light ship like everyone else.

Don't nerf it.