Mostly that is just for Cunjo. That is also why it is not listed as a behemoth variant. I seriously doubt we will see it in months if ever. Spellcast, the behemoth variants are intended to let players decide whether they want to try a race or a combat.

Lost
I dont see the variants idea being viable from an in-game POV.

no company would build 2 ships with the same outer design and give them that wide a range of attributes, it negates the point of mass production, which is that all ships of the same class are easy to produce with minimal difference between them.

You would literally have to have two completely different internal bracing structures, different engines, etc.

Perhaps. Maybe two different companies will produce them then and simply purchase the same outer hull from a third party vendor? But seriously, I am looking at the issue from a game-play and development perspective. The game would benefit from changes to the behemoth. Simple stat changes could be seen in a week or two of work whereas a new ship could easily take a couple months. As such, in the interest of the best gameplay value:development time ratio, I would opt for somewhat unrealistically different behemoth variants. Who knows, perhaps later one or more of the variants can be given a new look/skin. For all I care, the "Mining Behemoth" variant can use the Centaur model.

Spell, that logic doesn't hold for VO universe.

There are 2, 4 and 6CU versions of the Valk. All have varying amount of armor and weight. They all look the same.

Let alone any other ship. They all have various technical aspects that dont necessarily make sense given their overall shape dont change from one Mk to another.

Cunjo, there are currently 25 active characters (ie, chars played in the last week) with a mining license of 10 or higher. there are a total of 62 characters that have mining above 10, but most of them aren't activly being played anymore.

Where do you find things like that out, terjekv?

terjekv likes to rape the server.

He's got scripts or something... he knows everything!

"Lost
I dont see the variants idea being viable from an in-game POV.

no company would build 2 ships with the same outer design and give them that wide a range of attributes, it negates the point of mass production, which is that all ships of the same class are easy to produce with minimal difference between them.

You would literally have to have two completely different internal bracing structures, different engines, etc."

So Toyota, Ford, Mazda, and all the other car companies should only make ONE kind of truck, ONE kind of sedan, ONE kind of SUV, etc, each?

That ain't so crunk, brother.

Jerj:
scary, but good...

I'd like to say that I do NOT want to see moth top speed take a big hit any most varients. I'd much rather see a decrease in thrust, and perhaps some decrease in armor. (not too much)

just knocking down the thrust a bit and raising the weight of cargo slightly would remove the moth's uber status... it's enough, and we don't need to make travel slower and more painful by knocking the top speed, and we probably don't need significant armor redction either (at least not across the board)

nerfing the thrust will not change much. the moth needs a reductin in armor and speed. i say cut the armor fist because it makse more sence to have a fragile moth than a moth tamk. but in the end the moth will have a top speed of 150-170 and around 50-60% it's curent armor.

all a thrust cut will realy do (unless it is of such an extreem magnitude as to make a full moth un-flyable) will be worsen the manuvering capabilitoes of the moth. ie make docking more difficult. if you think the NPCs look silly docking now...

LostCommander

> Where do you find things like that out, terjekv?

you have an active player list and you can get any stats you like from the website. like for Alamar, http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/stats/55179

since we also have the player list available, it's easy enough to see when someone was last online.

"all a thrust cut will realy do (unless it is of such an extreem magnitude as to make a full moth un-flyable) will be worsen the manuvering capabilitoes of the moth. ie make docking more difficult. if you think the NPCs look silly docking now..."

Thrust is precisely the reason I don't use Mauds much. Before the moth, I prefered Centaurs since they handle so much better when loaded. If you nerf thrust for the moth it will be very very bad.

...which is a good thing.

In this particular matter, my opinion coincides exactly with Spellcast's. CtC has proven that fast transports with light armor turn voys into a race, whereas CtF has proven slow transports with high armor provide opportunity for real defensive battles.

LC: Simple stat changes could be seen in a week or two of work whereas a new ship could easily take a couple months. As such, in the interest of the best gameplay value:development time ratio, I would opt for somewhat unrealistically different behemoth variants.

Patience... good things come to those who wait. AFAIK the Moth is supposed to be a ponderous bulk trader, not a blockade runner or bomber. The 'Taur, Prom and Rag already fulfill those roles sufficiently for the time being.

Ah, and you can get the player numbers/IDs from the duelstats page. Sweet, thank you very much, terjekv. So, Phaserlight, are there any of the variants I suggested you would prefer to simply not see? If so, why (no offense, just curious)? Also, due to the small size of the development team, it would not just be patience. Getting additional ships would delay any other gameplay improvements which, IMO, are much better/more important (e.g. economy, smart NPCs, new UI, continued storyline enhancement/progression) than some additional ship graphics.

Random idea/question - how would all this be affected by a 1km increase in sensor range? Could we have slow-ish, lightly armored transports survive if the escorts had more advance warning, or would jump vulnerability be too much?

Well, if you want to talk numbers....

Behemoth Basic -/-/-/8/4 40000 HP; 120 cu; 2L
30000kg; 480 N; 65 m/s; 19.0 Nm; 170 m/s; 50/s

Behemoth Light -/-/-/9/4 15000 HP; 120 cu; 2L
28000kg; 500 N; 65 m/s; 19.0 Nm; 185 m/s; 50/s

Behemoth Mining -/-/-/10/10 30000 HP; 180 cu; 2L 1S
32000kg; 450 N; 65 m/s; 18.0 Nm; 160 m/s; 60/s

Behemoth Heavy -/-/-/11/6 50000 HP; 240 cu; 1L
35000kg; 520 N; 70 m/s; 21.0 Nm; 150 m/s; 65/s

These all look fairly reasonable, I just think the stats have too great a spread (15000 - 50000 HP, 150m/s - 185 m/s...) I'd bring them all a little closer personally, these are the tweaks I'd make (again this is just presonal opinion which is really nothing more than academic; it's up to the devs in the end):

Behemoth Basic -/-/-/8/4 45000 HP; 120 cu; 2L
30000kg; 480 N; 65 m/s; 19.0 Nm; 160 m/s; 50/s

Behemoth Light -/-/-/10/4 40000 HP; 100 cu; 2L
28000kg; 500 N; 65 m/s; 19.0 Nm; 170 m/s; 50/s

Behemoth Heavy -/-/-/11/6 50000 HP; 120 cu; 2L
32000kg; 510 N; 65 m/s; 21.0 Nm; 150 m/s; 50/s

Tunguska Behemoth Mining -/-/-/8/10 +600 Tunguska standing 38000 HP; 140 cu; 2L 1S
30000kg; 480 N; 65 m/s; 18.0 Nm; 160 m/s; 55/s

Rationale? First, these Moth variants are all a little more similar, and no variant is completely eclipsed by another variant. Basic: middle of the road, average cargo capacity, the main difference from the current behemoth is its top speed. Light: faster, more powerful engines with reduced armor and cargo capacity. Heavy: well armored, powerful but slow engines. Mining: biggest cargo hold and an additional s-port, but poorly armored and no infiniboost, making it well suited for mining but impractical for trading. I'd also make it a special faction variant.

Something also worth considering is perhaps the top speed of all variants should be the same so convoys made of multiple moth types can stay together... just a thought.

I agree with the mining variant being a faction ship. I had the variants more widely spaced to encourage two different types of convoys. Also, the Light variant will not be terribly useful without 120 cu unless the mission structure is somewhat changed. Currently, the big trading missions require 2 trips or a behemoth; if you have to make two trips anyway, might as well use a centaur...

I would like to see the heavy moth you posted above lose infiniturbo and gain some weight, cargo, and a third L-port personally... if it's heavy, it should act the part - easy to catch, but tough to kill.

Tanks do not need escorts. The heavy trading behemoth should NOT have a third weapon port.

"The heavy TRADING"...

The heavy moth already isn't a trader, when the basic will do so much better. If you want to make a moth capable of running, fine, and if you want to make one capable of fighting back, that's fine too, but they wouldn't be able to do both...

Beavy moth = Slow, heavy, heavily armored, impractical for flight.

Therefore, it SHOULD have the means to fight back.
What more do you think an extra L-port is going to do for it anyway? the BASIC moth is a tank right now, but it's a tank that can run. The heavy would still be a tank, but it wouldn't be able to get away in a fight, and so would need an escort, or a foolish pirate.

The idea of having a heavier moth is pointless anyway - I'm just suggesting we give it a point.

Why not have the battery drain increase proportionally to the load? An empty moth can infiniturbo, but a fully loaded moth has a drain of 65-75. It seems like it's kindof a physics model problem. If you increase cargo mass too much, the ship is near impossible to fly (although perhaps the cap ship navigation system can be used for large cargo ships as well). If you then in turn increase thrust and spin torque to compensate for the increased cargo mass, an empty moth flies like a rev C. Why not slightly nerf the thrust and instead implement drain adjustments based on cargo mass?