Forums » Suggestions
Rene - I understand your points, but isn't the point of a MMORPG to take the time, immerse in the experience? PvP rocks. It's my favorite part of the game. At this point though, it's my favorite part because its the only real option for long term players in terms of things to do. Raising ship costs will make the game more immersive, longer term, and ultimately more enjoyable and rewarding. before I took a break I gave away 91 million credits, almost all BP money. Now I'm back, and I'm earning my money the pirate way, and it's so much more rewarding. I think when new players have to really work to learn their new ships and earn their new toys, they'll appreicate it more.
I'm suprissed no one else Thinks that the cost of the new ships is excessive. can someone else agree that a 5 to 10 times price increase is better then a 35 times increase? this is a MAJOR change shouldn't it be done slowly to see how things work out?
Note:Has anyone else noticed there aren't many new players commenting (if any)? As always the older players are making the reccomendations for the new players and all future players. I know incarnate has the final word but he does cont on us too. I wish thier was a way to make the new players read this and other forums.
Note:Has anyone else noticed there aren't many new players commenting (if any)? As always the older players are making the reccomendations for the new players and all future players. I know incarnate has the final word but he does cont on us too. I wish thier was a way to make the new players read this and other forums.
I think tm hit the nail on the head in this matter.
If you want to play bumper cars in B8 use a bus or basic cent variant... if you're on a top secret assassination mission, then it's good that we'll have better ships for the job that actually take some work to get and that you don't want to lose.
/me points to Escape Velocity (again)... that game had basic fighter variants that cost 50,000 credits, and advanced fighters that went for 1-2 million. Both could die very quickly if you weren't careful. If you want to fly the best technology out there, you gotta be ready to pay.
If you want to play bumper cars in B8 use a bus or basic cent variant... if you're on a top secret assassination mission, then it's good that we'll have better ships for the job that actually take some work to get and that you don't want to lose.
/me points to Escape Velocity (again)... that game had basic fighter variants that cost 50,000 credits, and advanced fighters that went for 1-2 million. Both could die very quickly if you weren't careful. If you want to fly the best technology out there, you gotta be ready to pay.
jest is so true! heh we keep suggesting as if the game was sold to people who are so rich and have 1337 characters. hahaha but those of us already play the game! yo lets suggest for newbs
Rene:
First of all, the Skycommand prom is not something that "Takes practice to learn"
It's an incredibly armored gun/missileboat, that can equip all manner of layouts. It is, an incredibly powerful ship, in ANY hands. (note, I'm not saying its uber)
You're right, the prom mk I is a different beast, but not without its uses. And it doesn't get used at all right now.
As far as flying a hog or a vult against a rev C. That wouldn't be the norm with these prices.
Players would rarely take those ships out. But when they did, they'd have something serious to lose.
Most of the time, you'd be flying these variants against one another. Variants which generally are completely unused.
I think the major reason why people are so reluctant to give up on the specialty ships is that they've grown to rely on them. They're used to being safe, this makes it considerably harder to feel so secure. Which, imo, is a good thing.
Increasing ship prices by 3x is actually, a more dangerous proposition. It won't change the types of ships that you see out there, all it will do is make people bankrupt.
Inc's Idea of raising the price of all ships by 2-3 times, but making the "overused" ones worth a lot more, is a really good idea.
Let no one say they're a good pilot until they step out of their favorite ship, and see how their skills measure up.
First of all, the Skycommand prom is not something that "Takes practice to learn"
It's an incredibly armored gun/missileboat, that can equip all manner of layouts. It is, an incredibly powerful ship, in ANY hands. (note, I'm not saying its uber)
You're right, the prom mk I is a different beast, but not without its uses. And it doesn't get used at all right now.
As far as flying a hog or a vult against a rev C. That wouldn't be the norm with these prices.
Players would rarely take those ships out. But when they did, they'd have something serious to lose.
Most of the time, you'd be flying these variants against one another. Variants which generally are completely unused.
I think the major reason why people are so reluctant to give up on the specialty ships is that they've grown to rely on them. They're used to being safe, this makes it considerably harder to feel so secure. Which, imo, is a good thing.
Increasing ship prices by 3x is actually, a more dangerous proposition. It won't change the types of ships that you see out there, all it will do is make people bankrupt.
Inc's Idea of raising the price of all ships by 2-3 times, but making the "overused" ones worth a lot more, is a really good idea.
Let no one say they're a good pilot until they step out of their favorite ship, and see how their skills measure up.
yeesh.. everyone stop going insane..
Incarnate just threw numbers out to show the concept.. nothing is set in stone.. he even said so.
from hsi original post:
""(Numbers are ballpark, and don't take into account faction-standing driven price variation)""
and his next post down the page a few paragraphs.
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/11768#141106
Incarnate just threw numbers out to show the concept.. nothing is set in stone.. he even said so.
from hsi original post:
""(Numbers are ballpark, and don't take into account faction-standing driven price variation)""
and his next post down the page a few paragraphs.
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/11768#141106
First of all, the prom was just an example, could just as well have put a hornet or an atlas or...
But basically, every ship takes practice to learn no matter how armoured it is... If I play 99% of my time in a rev c and am able to win 99% of the time. If I now switch to a skycommand and do the same thing with a person who flies for 50% the skycommand, the chance will be big that I will get my toushy handed to me since im not used to flying that type of ship. Even if I had flown 10% of the time with a prom mk1, it still wouldn't be practice for flying a skycommand. Exactly in the same way as flying a cent mk1 isn't practice for flying a ibg. Or flying a vult mk1 is practice for flying a vulturius. Their inherent different characteristics, demand a different flightpattern from their lesser brothers. Even if it is only minor, it is and stays a difference which can only be learned through practice.
My point is that every ship has its finesses, to use it properly. Only difference with the rev c is that a prom forgives a couple of errors (4 -5) while a rev c will get punished for it. Same thing with a hog, it can afford to make 2 or 3 small errors, but more and its toast. And that is the reason why you consider a prom to take less practice to learn.
However, what I will see is most people using even a less diversified shippark then the ones people are flying now. With the exception of people with more time to play although even they will think a second time before using them. Heck, as if changing it to 10 - 35 times the price it is now won't drive people bankrupt. Incarnate even gave the example that he was practically always bankrupt during former ctf which was the atmoshpere he hoped to recreate.
It is not my fault that raising faction has become that easy that everybody has max faction and can get every ship i nthe game in stead of having to make choices. It is not my fault that BP was borked and made some people become millionairs (91 mill) and reduced the immersiveness of the game, if you didn't like the effect, you should not hae continued with it. If you consider it fair for people that have acquired most of their money by playing legitemate and always very conservative and cost-oriented and then just upping prices because of a couple designbugs... that is not really fair in my eyes. Heck if people would do that to me in real life, they could expect me to stop buying with them, since they put a dent in my customer satisfaction.
Tumble,
Its a game about skill, not? So shouldn't skill be a deciding factor in the ability to use ship x? In stead of having the ability to do 200 more traderuns then jack or being able to buy x mill from ebay or a sweatshop. (since once vendetta goes live and gets a steady sizeable custmerbase, you can expect that). And where is it then different from all those other online games? And another reason why I consider this to be nonsense, by doing this you will create another series of overused ships. Or are you going to x months later put up their price again and make an upward adjustment to the ones that where less used. Seems nothing different then before, with maybe the exception of letting these so called 'uber' or overused ships be used by the people that actually have the moneystash or the skill (fighting or running away) to use these ships. Creating an even bigger rift between newbie and vet since newbies are practically always lacking in both. Which defacto isn't the way to enter the mass marketing phase.
And that is everyhting I'm going to say concerning it. Since it is ultimately incarnates decission, But I'm still from the opinion that for a game like this the aesthetics, gizmos, etc need to be moneysinks not he abilities behind the ships, as if increasing faction isn't already a big enough timesink...
PS jess: please reread my posts, I have been stating that a 10 - 35 times increased price is over the top, just as starfisher has said the same.
But basically, every ship takes practice to learn no matter how armoured it is... If I play 99% of my time in a rev c and am able to win 99% of the time. If I now switch to a skycommand and do the same thing with a person who flies for 50% the skycommand, the chance will be big that I will get my toushy handed to me since im not used to flying that type of ship. Even if I had flown 10% of the time with a prom mk1, it still wouldn't be practice for flying a skycommand. Exactly in the same way as flying a cent mk1 isn't practice for flying a ibg. Or flying a vult mk1 is practice for flying a vulturius. Their inherent different characteristics, demand a different flightpattern from their lesser brothers. Even if it is only minor, it is and stays a difference which can only be learned through practice.
My point is that every ship has its finesses, to use it properly. Only difference with the rev c is that a prom forgives a couple of errors (4 -5) while a rev c will get punished for it. Same thing with a hog, it can afford to make 2 or 3 small errors, but more and its toast. And that is the reason why you consider a prom to take less practice to learn.
However, what I will see is most people using even a less diversified shippark then the ones people are flying now. With the exception of people with more time to play although even they will think a second time before using them. Heck, as if changing it to 10 - 35 times the price it is now won't drive people bankrupt. Incarnate even gave the example that he was practically always bankrupt during former ctf which was the atmoshpere he hoped to recreate.
It is not my fault that raising faction has become that easy that everybody has max faction and can get every ship i nthe game in stead of having to make choices. It is not my fault that BP was borked and made some people become millionairs (91 mill) and reduced the immersiveness of the game, if you didn't like the effect, you should not hae continued with it. If you consider it fair for people that have acquired most of their money by playing legitemate and always very conservative and cost-oriented and then just upping prices because of a couple designbugs... that is not really fair in my eyes. Heck if people would do that to me in real life, they could expect me to stop buying with them, since they put a dent in my customer satisfaction.
Tumble,
Its a game about skill, not? So shouldn't skill be a deciding factor in the ability to use ship x? In stead of having the ability to do 200 more traderuns then jack or being able to buy x mill from ebay or a sweatshop. (since once vendetta goes live and gets a steady sizeable custmerbase, you can expect that). And where is it then different from all those other online games? And another reason why I consider this to be nonsense, by doing this you will create another series of overused ships. Or are you going to x months later put up their price again and make an upward adjustment to the ones that where less used. Seems nothing different then before, with maybe the exception of letting these so called 'uber' or overused ships be used by the people that actually have the moneystash or the skill (fighting or running away) to use these ships. Creating an even bigger rift between newbie and vet since newbies are practically always lacking in both. Which defacto isn't the way to enter the mass marketing phase.
And that is everyhting I'm going to say concerning it. Since it is ultimately incarnates decission, But I'm still from the opinion that for a game like this the aesthetics, gizmos, etc need to be moneysinks not he abilities behind the ships, as if increasing faction isn't already a big enough timesink...
PS jess: please reread my posts, I have been stating that a 10 - 35 times increased price is over the top, just as starfisher has said the same.
I did some checking, and I've died I think 43 times in the last week & 2 days or so.
Most of those deaths were me /exploding in an EC-88 to get somewhere.
A good 10 of those deaths were me screwing around in a Centaur Mk. III last week.
Now, I'm no super-great pilot, I spend my fair share of time in B8, and I die a lot. If my ship + loadout cost me 100,000 cr per death, and I quit doing stupid things like hanging around Sedina after being damaged to 20%, I would only have to mine for probably 4 hours to support that 20-deaths-per-week habit. So I guess that's 20% of my time spent "working" ingame in order to have more "fun" ingame.
I think that's a good ratio. 20% to 80%
Most of those deaths were me /exploding in an EC-88 to get somewhere.
A good 10 of those deaths were me screwing around in a Centaur Mk. III last week.
Now, I'm no super-great pilot, I spend my fair share of time in B8, and I die a lot. If my ship + loadout cost me 100,000 cr per death, and I quit doing stupid things like hanging around Sedina after being damaged to 20%, I would only have to mine for probably 4 hours to support that 20-deaths-per-week habit. So I guess that's 20% of my time spent "working" ingame in order to have more "fun" ingame.
I think that's a good ratio. 20% to 80%
1. YES!!! They're nerfing that damn Rev C!!!
2. Crap...they're nerfing everything.
3. Crap...I'm gonna have to trade more
4. Oh, wait...more trading? The CDC DOES have a purpose!
Overall though, I don't want the prices that high. Spending time trading takes away from what I really want to do (PvP), which will probably have lesser value now that everyone will run to save their now overly expensive ship.
However, I hope that there is a fluctuating price system with this new economy, that would encourage players to try new ship archetypes, rather than the overused ones *cough* rev c */cough*
Also, give CDC a purpose by increasing pay on gray space trading. It IS the black market...and encourages pirating! And escorting!
2. Crap...they're nerfing everything.
3. Crap...I'm gonna have to trade more
4. Oh, wait...more trading? The CDC DOES have a purpose!
Overall though, I don't want the prices that high. Spending time trading takes away from what I really want to do (PvP), which will probably have lesser value now that everyone will run to save their now overly expensive ship.
However, I hope that there is a fluctuating price system with this new economy, that would encourage players to try new ship archetypes, rather than the overused ones *cough* rev c */cough*
Also, give CDC a purpose by increasing pay on gray space trading. It IS the black market...and encourages pirating! And escorting!
Note: my intention is not to bankrupt people, or to make people constantly on the edge of bankrupcy. But rather, to make people actually need to think about money to some extent, and have to manage their funds. This was the case in the "well-balanced" era. I did not spend all my time bankrupt, but in some periodic heavy-combat cases where some of us were willing to commit all of our resources to a particular goal (CTF) it would happen occasionally. It was a willing sacrifice, however, and one that was meaningful because of the known labors necessary to recover. That era in the game was not characterized by people being bankrupt, it was characterized by a more balanced income/outflow model than what we currently have, and the fact that people still *enjoyed* the game (and combat) a great deal. Perhaps even more than they do now. That, more than anything else, is The Point. We've done this before, and Great Doom did not result.
Another point is that, while this is a game with fast-paced PVP action, it is not exclusively a PVP action game (like say, Quake). Otherwise we might as well nuke money entirely and switch back to respawning. If we're going to have an economy, and potentially add all these dynamic constructs to build a living, breathing universe.. then said economy should have some import on the denizens of the universe. Otherwise, all we end up with is glorified space-quake. There is a balance of instant-action PVP and more RPG-oriented monetary acquisition. We have had this balance before (albeit in a much simpler universe) and we can find it again.
I do not want to commit to drastic immediate changes. That's part of why I posted this thread, rather than just.. doing it. But our whole economy and basis needs to be revisited, and I'm in the process of doing that.
Another Note: There are other ramifications of economic changes that I haven't touched on here, because again, I didn't want to drag people off topic. But it has always been our intention to offer missions on a "military" type track that would also include "free" temporary ships that would be used for the particular mission (and this isn't a far-out possibility). This is another way in which hideously expensive craft could potentially be made available to those who can't buy it themselves.. much like how it works in real life. There's a lot of Stuff like this, but it seems to me that laying the fundamental economic groundwork is a good idea before we go and add 9000 other things that may tie into it.
Another point is that, while this is a game with fast-paced PVP action, it is not exclusively a PVP action game (like say, Quake). Otherwise we might as well nuke money entirely and switch back to respawning. If we're going to have an economy, and potentially add all these dynamic constructs to build a living, breathing universe.. then said economy should have some import on the denizens of the universe. Otherwise, all we end up with is glorified space-quake. There is a balance of instant-action PVP and more RPG-oriented monetary acquisition. We have had this balance before (albeit in a much simpler universe) and we can find it again.
I do not want to commit to drastic immediate changes. That's part of why I posted this thread, rather than just.. doing it. But our whole economy and basis needs to be revisited, and I'm in the process of doing that.
Another Note: There are other ramifications of economic changes that I haven't touched on here, because again, I didn't want to drag people off topic. But it has always been our intention to offer missions on a "military" type track that would also include "free" temporary ships that would be used for the particular mission (and this isn't a far-out possibility). This is another way in which hideously expensive craft could potentially be made available to those who can't buy it themselves.. much like how it works in real life. There's a lot of Stuff like this, but it seems to me that laying the fundamental economic groundwork is a good idea before we go and add 9000 other things that may tie into it.
Thank you very much, incarnate, for your careful watching of this thread. JestatisBess, I think I am borderline one of the newer players to which you refer. I just started playing this summer, but was fairly active during that time:
Signed up 2005-05-12 20:59:23
Time spent online: 12 days, 15:20:23
I am a fairly careful pilot by nature and I have only used the /explode-teleport feature about 10-20 times as it really grates against me, just sometimes being in CTC after I had done a couple trade runs ending all the way to Deneb took precedence. As such, I have only died 210 times, though I do not know whether 14 Queens and a single Leviathan or Sedina B-8 racked up most of my deaths. Either way, I am sitting happily atop 5 million credits from getting to trading LL 10 and mining LL 9. However, having frequented B-8 when I had the time and having fought the real Hive, not just newbie bots, I am WELL acquainted with how quickly hard-earned credits can go down the drain. Also, having actually gotten to trading LL 10 and mining LL 9, I have also become well acquainted with how quickly those activities stop being fun. In the end, I am afraid I must weigh in FOR increased ship costs, BUT NO MORE than 10 times as expensive, and that assumes NO change in equipment costs. I do not think that fully equipped ships should increase in cost more than 7-8 times what they are now, maybe as "low" as 5-6 times as expensive.
Later on I intend to post a suggested ship hull price list. It is just going to take a little bit.
Signed up 2005-05-12 20:59:23
Time spent online: 12 days, 15:20:23
I am a fairly careful pilot by nature and I have only used the /explode-teleport feature about 10-20 times as it really grates against me, just sometimes being in CTC after I had done a couple trade runs ending all the way to Deneb took precedence. As such, I have only died 210 times, though I do not know whether 14 Queens and a single Leviathan or Sedina B-8 racked up most of my deaths. Either way, I am sitting happily atop 5 million credits from getting to trading LL 10 and mining LL 9. However, having frequented B-8 when I had the time and having fought the real Hive, not just newbie bots, I am WELL acquainted with how quickly hard-earned credits can go down the drain. Also, having actually gotten to trading LL 10 and mining LL 9, I have also become well acquainted with how quickly those activities stop being fun. In the end, I am afraid I must weigh in FOR increased ship costs, BUT NO MORE than 10 times as expensive, and that assumes NO change in equipment costs. I do not think that fully equipped ships should increase in cost more than 7-8 times what they are now, maybe as "low" as 5-6 times as expensive.
Later on I intend to post a suggested ship hull price list. It is just going to take a little bit.
i really don't think we need to increase ship price though i do understand that the new and bigger shipps must cost a lot. many people in VO don't want to go around running trade mission all the time for money. They like to do other things and not have to worry so much. also, now that they fixed the bug on the BP missions it is a lot harder to get money.
--Gruumsh
--Gruumsh
There are other ways to make money, Gruumsh. And with the new combat missions, there will be even more. And like people said, raising a million credits by trading takes less than an hour.
Thank you LostCommander. I'm glad somone agrees that price increases for ships should be a little leass. and thank you as a new player for chiming it :)
edit: jexkerome: Yes someone with a REALY good trade route can make a million in an hour, but most of don't have great trade routes. It takes time to make money for lower level players without a moth it takes even more time.
I'm guessing here but i assume inc's next move will to make mining and trading less profitable. He already said that unlimited ships and cargo won't be able to stay in any one station anymore. I know we don't have the specs of the new system yet but what if you can only store 120cu of each item at a station or after you sell 120cu of an item the station updates the prize? That will make it ALOt harder to make profit.
Am i right in seeing a future where ships cost more and its harder to make money?
edit: jexkerome: Yes someone with a REALY good trade route can make a million in an hour, but most of don't have great trade routes. It takes time to make money for lower level players without a moth it takes even more time.
I'm guessing here but i assume inc's next move will to make mining and trading less profitable. He already said that unlimited ships and cargo won't be able to stay in any one station anymore. I know we don't have the specs of the new system yet but what if you can only store 120cu of each item at a station or after you sell 120cu of an item the station updates the prize? That will make it ALOt harder to make profit.
Am i right in seeing a future where ships cost more and its harder to make money?
Yup, probably. That's not a bad thing, so long as the ways of making money are more varied. I just hope that if something is made to take longer and be harder, there's more ways to do it to fight off boredom.
Well, Jes, those changes also seemed aimed at making long runs through greyspace MORE profitable and therefore worth the risk, which means more fun all around.
Also, that million is achieved easily with Trading Guild missions, not just "private" trade routes.
Third, and once again, the prices Incarnate posted were SUGGESTIONS and not the definite thing. So those comments that go "ZOMG why so high teh ship prices KTHXBYE?" are a little bit (ah Hell, who are we kidding here, they're MUCH TOO MUCH) premature.
And of course, most everyone of us agree they were kinda high, anyway :P
Also, that million is achieved easily with Trading Guild missions, not just "private" trade routes.
Third, and once again, the prices Incarnate posted were SUGGESTIONS and not the definite thing. So those comments that go "ZOMG why so high teh ship prices KTHXBYE?" are a little bit (ah Hell, who are we kidding here, they're MUCH TOO MUCH) premature.
And of course, most everyone of us agree they were kinda high, anyway :P
More expencive ships = less B8 rumble. True.
More expencive ships = more trading to gain credits. True.
Trading takes time and effort. True.
Trading is boring to a fighter. True.
How about piracy?
More trading = more piracy victims.
More piracy victims = greater need for escorts.
More traders, with more escorts, and more piracy = B8 rumble is spread out over the known universe.
More activity all over the universe = more fun for everyone.
To pull my theory into one line:
More expecive ships = more fun for everyone.
Also, the "ballpark figures" are clearly a bit rough. Less of a priceboost for some ships, yet alot more for others. Also, this might tie in with limited ship supplies at some (non-barracs?) stations.
This will all rock supreemely. I have complete confidence in the devs to find Just The Right Price.
[edit]
Oh, btw, you do realize that I generally pay my escort 50% of the earnings on an escorted trade run, right?
That's easily a million an hour with no prior trade know-how.
[/edit]
More expencive ships = more trading to gain credits. True.
Trading takes time and effort. True.
Trading is boring to a fighter. True.
How about piracy?
More trading = more piracy victims.
More piracy victims = greater need for escorts.
More traders, with more escorts, and more piracy = B8 rumble is spread out over the known universe.
More activity all over the universe = more fun for everyone.
To pull my theory into one line:
More expecive ships = more fun for everyone.
Also, the "ballpark figures" are clearly a bit rough. Less of a priceboost for some ships, yet alot more for others. Also, this might tie in with limited ship supplies at some (non-barracs?) stations.
This will all rock supreemely. I have complete confidence in the devs to find Just The Right Price.
[edit]
Oh, btw, you do realize that I generally pay my escort 50% of the earnings on an escorted trade run, right?
That's easily a million an hour with no prior trade know-how.
[/edit]
Damnit Inc. You ruined my post. I didn't have time last night to post my thoughts, and here your post foiled my whole plan...
Although, my idea was maybe the higher-end ships being a reward in a mission, not a bonus to start a mission. (what happens if you take a mission that gives you a ship and you abort?) I was also going to ask if there is a way to recieve a RANDOM reward. Where you don't really know what kind of ship you are going to get, you just get some uber ship like a prom, maud or valk for completing the mission...That would take some of the stress out of purchasing a ship for 50K or whatever the price may be.
I do agree with most posts here, but there are a few things that aren't going over too well. Especially the posts about noobs not being able to afford these ships. As it's been pointed out before, the lesser ships that noobs will be flying will remain the same price. Since when can noobs get Valks and Axia Mauds???? If you have the levels to acquire a high-end ship, there is a good chance that you have an idea on how to make some good money. Also, this will teach the semi-noobs that having Uber-high levels because of BP has a consequence. They don't have the experience of being in-game for a long time; therefore, don't have the resources or knowledge that is needed for the great trade-routes or uber mining fields. I played for at least 5 months, maybe 6 before I could acquire a valk. By then I had a few million under my belt, but more importantly I learned how to make some quick cash when that mill or two ran out.
This may be off-topic, and I apologize, but it would be nice if there was a mission for the hardcore PVP-only players that would give them a cash and XP reward for fighting. Like a millitary mission, join the millitary for your nation and get some rewards for all the PVP they do. Or for those that work in grey, make it a mercenary mission or a corvus pirate mission. That way if all you want to do here is PVP, at least you can make some money or gain some XP or Faction points.
[edit] this may also help curb some running, where if you run from the battles, you don't get the rewards. Some people might stick around for the fight if a minor reward is given for fighting to the death [/edit]
kernel.panic
Although, my idea was maybe the higher-end ships being a reward in a mission, not a bonus to start a mission. (what happens if you take a mission that gives you a ship and you abort?) I was also going to ask if there is a way to recieve a RANDOM reward. Where you don't really know what kind of ship you are going to get, you just get some uber ship like a prom, maud or valk for completing the mission...That would take some of the stress out of purchasing a ship for 50K or whatever the price may be.
I do agree with most posts here, but there are a few things that aren't going over too well. Especially the posts about noobs not being able to afford these ships. As it's been pointed out before, the lesser ships that noobs will be flying will remain the same price. Since when can noobs get Valks and Axia Mauds???? If you have the levels to acquire a high-end ship, there is a good chance that you have an idea on how to make some good money. Also, this will teach the semi-noobs that having Uber-high levels because of BP has a consequence. They don't have the experience of being in-game for a long time; therefore, don't have the resources or knowledge that is needed for the great trade-routes or uber mining fields. I played for at least 5 months, maybe 6 before I could acquire a valk. By then I had a few million under my belt, but more importantly I learned how to make some quick cash when that mill or two ran out.
This may be off-topic, and I apologize, but it would be nice if there was a mission for the hardcore PVP-only players that would give them a cash and XP reward for fighting. Like a millitary mission, join the millitary for your nation and get some rewards for all the PVP they do. Or for those that work in grey, make it a mercenary mission or a corvus pirate mission. That way if all you want to do here is PVP, at least you can make some money or gain some XP or Faction points.
[edit] this may also help curb some running, where if you run from the battles, you don't get the rewards. Some people might stick around for the fight if a minor reward is given for fighting to the death [/edit]
kernel.panic
Demonen... raising ship costs isn't going to make more people play the game. The reason player interaction is so limited is because the player base is limited, not because people don't seek each other out.
Jestatis: LostCommander's post is completely in-line with my original pricing post. He suggests topping out at 10x the current price, with a spread between 5-8x the current costs. None of my posted numbers exceeded 10x, most by a significant margin.
Secondly, I haven't said anything, ever, about making trading or mining less profitable. Less me break this down:
We have an inflated economy. There is too much money for the purchasable items that exist (yes, I know people are saving for cap ships, but just ignore that for the moment). There are two ways of balancing the economy (or a combination of both). One is to reduce the rate at which people can earn money, making the existing pricing structure more realistic. The other is to increase the pricing structure to make it more accurately reflect the ease of earnings.
If I were to raise ship prices, it would not be my intention to alter earning rates. Because, to tune both variables at the same time becomes more complex than to simply adjust one. The fact that we're implementing station storage limitations has no bearing on trading whatsoever.
I am interested in redistributing the trading routes of the game, to economically emphasize routes through dangerous areas. If anything, though, it would be my goal to try and make trade routes easier to find, easier to understand, and easier for newbies to pursue.
When it comes time to install a fully dynamic economy, which probably won't be for a couple of months, there might be some instability that could lead to short periods of trading being more difficult, or routes being more volatile. But, that wouldn't be by design, and would only happen until we had tuned the system successfully (hopefully, something we can do on the Test server). I am attemping to find some sort of "balance" in our existing, half-dynamic economy so that we can use those numbers as the desired basis for a fully dynamic implementation.
I've been aware of our economic imbalance for a long time, but it hasn't had a dramatic impact on the game (at least, not on the level that it would with other designs), and I've had bigger fish to fry. But now, I think there's merit to doing a little rebalancing before we dig deeper into our economy and how this other gameplay we're building will affect it. All I'm talking about here is increasing ship cost, nothing else.
Secondly, I haven't said anything, ever, about making trading or mining less profitable. Less me break this down:
We have an inflated economy. There is too much money for the purchasable items that exist (yes, I know people are saving for cap ships, but just ignore that for the moment). There are two ways of balancing the economy (or a combination of both). One is to reduce the rate at which people can earn money, making the existing pricing structure more realistic. The other is to increase the pricing structure to make it more accurately reflect the ease of earnings.
If I were to raise ship prices, it would not be my intention to alter earning rates. Because, to tune both variables at the same time becomes more complex than to simply adjust one. The fact that we're implementing station storage limitations has no bearing on trading whatsoever.
I am interested in redistributing the trading routes of the game, to economically emphasize routes through dangerous areas. If anything, though, it would be my goal to try and make trade routes easier to find, easier to understand, and easier for newbies to pursue.
When it comes time to install a fully dynamic economy, which probably won't be for a couple of months, there might be some instability that could lead to short periods of trading being more difficult, or routes being more volatile. But, that wouldn't be by design, and would only happen until we had tuned the system successfully (hopefully, something we can do on the Test server). I am attemping to find some sort of "balance" in our existing, half-dynamic economy so that we can use those numbers as the desired basis for a fully dynamic implementation.
I've been aware of our economic imbalance for a long time, but it hasn't had a dramatic impact on the game (at least, not on the level that it would with other designs), and I've had bigger fish to fry. But now, I think there's merit to doing a little rebalancing before we dig deeper into our economy and how this other gameplay we're building will affect it. All I'm talking about here is increasing ship cost, nothing else.