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THIS IS AN EVIL THREAD! DIE FOUL NECROMANCER!
No, dragonne, items will not have modifications based on the creator's levels; they will not have modifications period for quite some time at least, if ever.
Oh, and thanks for posting the crafting stuff where it is supposed to be! Long live thread necromancy!
Oh, and thanks for posting the crafting stuff where it is supposed to be! Long live thread necromancy!
When will the devs implement samoflange into anything? When will they change any sort of gameplay that needs to be changed? I feel like this game could be so much better. I'm sure they would get a lot more business if they made some new additions, involving any sort of crafting, station ownership, guild alliances... (etc.)
Mister Kirk, you really need to read a little more of the forum before you post this much. Please. Seek enlightenment in the post labeled "SUGGESTIONS READ FIRST". There lies the path to holiness.
Having been a year since this thread was first posted, perhaps it's time for some crafting? o.o
Crafting would be AMAZING in this game. I know the devs are busy doing a ton of other amazing things for the game, but this is an idea that could add a whole lot of gameplay elements so hopefully its still in the long term goals.
I didn't read the whole 10 pages of forum posts so this may have been suggested already...
1. Make it possible to create a much better versions of a type of ship through crafting with rare materials. This way, if we work for it, we can have Revenants with amazing handling, lure in pirates and take 'em out! If we're all flying tweaked ships, you never know what to expect and we all feel ownership and attachment to our personal ship.
Also, I second Lebermac (now Lexicon) in finding a way to make crafting twitch based, and creating a crafting skill. We could also have players who build specialized ships to sell to other players.
I didn't read the whole 10 pages of forum posts so this may have been suggested already...
1. Make it possible to create a much better versions of a type of ship through crafting with rare materials. This way, if we work for it, we can have Revenants with amazing handling, lure in pirates and take 'em out! If we're all flying tweaked ships, you never know what to expect and we all feel ownership and attachment to our personal ship.
Also, I second Lebermac (now Lexicon) in finding a way to make crafting twitch based, and creating a crafting skill. We could also have players who build specialized ships to sell to other players.
Haha. Well, I'm thinking that the devs are relatively resistant to any kind of crafting twitch "minigame", but I only suggested those after doing some of the same kind of stuff in a MMORPG titled "A Tale In The Desert" which has twitch skill-based crafting. It's possible to become a great blacksmith, or cook, or whatnot in that game, set up shop, and sell your wares for premium if you're good at it.
That's one game that's essentially nothing BUT crafting, and I think that a similar model could be used here. It would be a lot of work to develop something that made sense in Vendetta, however, so I think this is probably not a priority for the game.
So, yeah, crafting would rule. Although I don't think that it will be implemented until after the work on the dynamic economy gets done.
That's one game that's essentially nothing BUT crafting, and I think that a similar model could be used here. It would be a lot of work to develop something that made sense in Vendetta, however, so I think this is probably not a priority for the game.
So, yeah, crafting would rule. Although I don't think that it will be implemented until after the work on the dynamic economy gets done.
Yeah, we can dream though!
The thing about writing a game for people who want to explore the universe is that we tend to think big :)
The thing about writing a game for people who want to explore the universe is that we tend to think big :)
The game is also supposed to be written for people who don't care a rat's ass about crafting and just want to serve as a soldier, a miner, a trader...
While I would welcome crafting like desert soil would welcome a shower of rain (especially skill-based crafting, not necessarily twitch, but possibly so), I wouldn't see it as an absolute must-have.
While I would welcome crafting like desert soil would welcome a shower of rain (especially skill-based crafting, not necessarily twitch, but possibly so), I wouldn't see it as an absolute must-have.
We need in between player TRADE!!! We must somehow be able to trade securely!!
AMEN to that Zed...
- and a cash system for which
- and a cash system for which
* bump *
Any other ideas on this?
Any other ideas on this?
I've been toying around with some thoughts. I drew up a "Production Pyramid" in my mind's eye, a series of steps that illustrate what's necessary for a unit of good to be manufactured. The less efficient you are on step 1, the less stuff you'll have available for steps 2, 3, 4, and 5. Tis from the perspective of the crafter. I decided on something like this:
1. Defenses
2. Trade
3. Resources gathering
4. Researching
5. Actual Manufacture
So...
Manufacture
Research Research
Gather Gather Gather
Trade Trade Trade Trade
Defense Defense Defense Defense
1. Defenses are important because without them, everything else is at risk. Defenses protect the convoys, they protect the miners, the station where you manufacture, and the research stations. Most importantly, the weaker your defenses, the less efficient every other action is going to be.
2. Trade to me is the act of bringing things from point A to point B. Good traders can do this to the point of earning profit. It's difficult to run a manufacturing business of any sort without couriers to bring you what you need, and deliver what you sell. The less efficient this step is, the less efficient gathering resources, and the other steps will be.
3. Gathering resources primarily means mining. Not all manufacturing would require this, as not all things are made from raw ore. None the less, the cheapest place to get something you need is from nature, as long as you can get it safely, and quickly. This step will improve the efficiency of most manufacturing.
4. Research is a tricky subject, but generally once man learned to make things, man learned the art of crafting. When man learned to make the same things, but better, faster, and more efficient, that was the art of research. Research could mean a great many things, but the method of improving one's current manufacturing schemes definately falls under the category of research. This step improves the efficiency of research.
5. Manufacturing is what it's all about. When you have a protected place to work with supplies brought to you, and the know how to do it, then you can get to work. Then your factories, or NPC workers, or nanobots, or just whatever it is that's going to be "crafting" in this game can get to work. An efficient approach to this step improves all others, because the more you manufacture, the better equipment you have available for all other things.
Thoughts?
1. Defenses
2. Trade
3. Resources gathering
4. Researching
5. Actual Manufacture
So...
Manufacture
Research Research
Gather Gather Gather
Trade Trade Trade Trade
Defense Defense Defense Defense
1. Defenses are important because without them, everything else is at risk. Defenses protect the convoys, they protect the miners, the station where you manufacture, and the research stations. Most importantly, the weaker your defenses, the less efficient every other action is going to be.
2. Trade to me is the act of bringing things from point A to point B. Good traders can do this to the point of earning profit. It's difficult to run a manufacturing business of any sort without couriers to bring you what you need, and deliver what you sell. The less efficient this step is, the less efficient gathering resources, and the other steps will be.
3. Gathering resources primarily means mining. Not all manufacturing would require this, as not all things are made from raw ore. None the less, the cheapest place to get something you need is from nature, as long as you can get it safely, and quickly. This step will improve the efficiency of most manufacturing.
4. Research is a tricky subject, but generally once man learned to make things, man learned the art of crafting. When man learned to make the same things, but better, faster, and more efficient, that was the art of research. Research could mean a great many things, but the method of improving one's current manufacturing schemes definately falls under the category of research. This step improves the efficiency of research.
5. Manufacturing is what it's all about. When you have a protected place to work with supplies brought to you, and the know how to do it, then you can get to work. Then your factories, or NPC workers, or nanobots, or just whatever it is that's going to be "crafting" in this game can get to work. An efficient approach to this step improves all others, because the more you manufacture, the better equipment you have available for all other things.
Thoughts?
This is getting a bit too complex and convoluted. Maybe the adoption of the KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) principle may be apt at this time. We need something that has the following properties:
1. Balance
2. Offers the same opportunities for both newbies and seasoned VO pilots
3. Incorporates a 'twitch' component
4. Allows for another dimension of game play
Keeping these in mind, I suggest the following:
1. Turf the idea of players inventing new weapons as the problems associated with that are too numerous and would remove the current control from the Devs.
2. A new licence type called 'Manufacturing licence'. You increase your manufacturing licence by the products you produce and sell (plus profit margin obtained etc).
3. A 'quality' level for each trade good. This is already evident in the different versions of the the same weapons. I would generalise this somewhat and allow a 'quality rating' (say 1 - 10) for each trade good in VO. By making the quality rating an attribute to all goods, it will allow the Devs to attach formulas that incorporate this rating to calculate the other attributes of the goods. For example: the speed of a missile may be calculated as 100 + (quality rating), the small weapon licence level required for a cannon can be calculated as (quality rating / 2) etc
4. Introduce the concept of 'machines'. Machines are manufacturing components that take quantities of one or more inputs to produce an output over a period of time. These machines can be purchased like any other trade good and as such can give the Devs control over the efficiency, cost, input and outputs etc. The efficiency rating (level) of a machine relates directly to the quality of output produced. The more efficient (higher level) the machine the higher the 'manufacturing' licence required. Machines may need regular servicing (input of credits) - ala the mining system - the machine can slow down a bit after each item produced. Servicing the machine can restore the speed of the machine.
5. Processing plants. Basically, this is a UI extension where machines can be chained together to form processing plants. The UI could show the processing plant (displayed like a flowchart) where each machine has a progress bar (not unlike the mining lasers), current efficiency % (increase by 'servicing' the machine) and a count of each input available in store. Once progress bar is 100%, the outputted item moves to the input port on the next machine. You could introduce some kind of conditional branching etc ... this is where the 'twitch' component of this idea comes in. I can think of some complex machines!
6. Remove idea of renting station space. Currently, there are no costs in storing cargo at station, so no need to introduce this for manufacturing. Problems with determining how much to charge ... players are not online all the time, so should they be charged rent while offline etc ... not a viable option.
7. Tax manufacturing. Apart from the cost of raw materials, a station inforced tax can be applied to each machine in the process. The amount can be different between stations and between machines and only charged per outputted item. This would be a better alternative to renting floor space in stations. The tax amount may be discounted for faction standings, reputation etc ... again gives 'tweaking' control to the Devs and a level of choice for players as to which station to work on. Stations can also regulate what may/may not be manufactured on it.
8. Leave automated manufacturing by stations as is. However, increase the price of all NPC/station manufactured items enough to encourage players to do their own production. The higher cost of NPC trade goods will kick start the stations' economy. This way, the NPC products can be a baseline for costs and still allow for products to exist on stations where no players are manufacturing. Only level 1 machines can be bought from NPCs. All other machines have to be manufactured from other materials or bought of other players.
9. Enhance the 'Bar' at the stations to include advertising for produced items. Requests for certain materials - tie into missions etc. Set up outsorcing contracts (where a part of your production is outsourced) with other players. Players hauling cargo can sell raw materials to the highest bidders etc. Could also introduce an auction system where player manufactured items can be auctioned off. This idea has a lot of possibilities - most already covered in this thread.
10. The machines run only while the player is logged on (and have enough inputs of materials - of course). This rule would prevent a lot of problems in the long run. The player can set up a number of manufacturing plants on different stations. All players 'plants' run while he/she is logged on. However, the supply of raw materials into the system, the setting of profit margins, servicing of equipment and selling the final product need a hands on interraction. I would suggest, to make it more user friendly, a player should be able to remotely administer all plants. This would allow players who dont want to fly around to just be involved in this aspect of the game.
11. Branding - just for a bit of fun, each manufactured item is branded with the name of the player who produced it. This would give manufacturers a sense of ownership and enhance their reputation. Eg. when managing the weapons on your ship, you would see Ion Laser MkIII, level 7, manufactured by JackScream etc
I think that while all the ideas mentioned in this thread have merit to different degrees, we have to concentrate on the fundamental aspects of manufacturing in the VO universe before we address some of them. Once established, a manufacturing system would act as a catalyst to further enhancements and would tie directly into player owned stations etc.
In my experience, starting out with a comprehesive, self sustaining system is important for laying the foundation for all the other ideas mentioned in this thread.
JS
1. Balance
2. Offers the same opportunities for both newbies and seasoned VO pilots
3. Incorporates a 'twitch' component
4. Allows for another dimension of game play
Keeping these in mind, I suggest the following:
1. Turf the idea of players inventing new weapons as the problems associated with that are too numerous and would remove the current control from the Devs.
2. A new licence type called 'Manufacturing licence'. You increase your manufacturing licence by the products you produce and sell (plus profit margin obtained etc).
3. A 'quality' level for each trade good. This is already evident in the different versions of the the same weapons. I would generalise this somewhat and allow a 'quality rating' (say 1 - 10) for each trade good in VO. By making the quality rating an attribute to all goods, it will allow the Devs to attach formulas that incorporate this rating to calculate the other attributes of the goods. For example: the speed of a missile may be calculated as 100 + (quality rating), the small weapon licence level required for a cannon can be calculated as (quality rating / 2) etc
4. Introduce the concept of 'machines'. Machines are manufacturing components that take quantities of one or more inputs to produce an output over a period of time. These machines can be purchased like any other trade good and as such can give the Devs control over the efficiency, cost, input and outputs etc. The efficiency rating (level) of a machine relates directly to the quality of output produced. The more efficient (higher level) the machine the higher the 'manufacturing' licence required. Machines may need regular servicing (input of credits) - ala the mining system - the machine can slow down a bit after each item produced. Servicing the machine can restore the speed of the machine.
5. Processing plants. Basically, this is a UI extension where machines can be chained together to form processing plants. The UI could show the processing plant (displayed like a flowchart) where each machine has a progress bar (not unlike the mining lasers), current efficiency % (increase by 'servicing' the machine) and a count of each input available in store. Once progress bar is 100%, the outputted item moves to the input port on the next machine. You could introduce some kind of conditional branching etc ... this is where the 'twitch' component of this idea comes in. I can think of some complex machines!
6. Remove idea of renting station space. Currently, there are no costs in storing cargo at station, so no need to introduce this for manufacturing. Problems with determining how much to charge ... players are not online all the time, so should they be charged rent while offline etc ... not a viable option.
7. Tax manufacturing. Apart from the cost of raw materials, a station inforced tax can be applied to each machine in the process. The amount can be different between stations and between machines and only charged per outputted item. This would be a better alternative to renting floor space in stations. The tax amount may be discounted for faction standings, reputation etc ... again gives 'tweaking' control to the Devs and a level of choice for players as to which station to work on. Stations can also regulate what may/may not be manufactured on it.
8. Leave automated manufacturing by stations as is. However, increase the price of all NPC/station manufactured items enough to encourage players to do their own production. The higher cost of NPC trade goods will kick start the stations' economy. This way, the NPC products can be a baseline for costs and still allow for products to exist on stations where no players are manufacturing. Only level 1 machines can be bought from NPCs. All other machines have to be manufactured from other materials or bought of other players.
9. Enhance the 'Bar' at the stations to include advertising for produced items. Requests for certain materials - tie into missions etc. Set up outsorcing contracts (where a part of your production is outsourced) with other players. Players hauling cargo can sell raw materials to the highest bidders etc. Could also introduce an auction system where player manufactured items can be auctioned off. This idea has a lot of possibilities - most already covered in this thread.
10. The machines run only while the player is logged on (and have enough inputs of materials - of course). This rule would prevent a lot of problems in the long run. The player can set up a number of manufacturing plants on different stations. All players 'plants' run while he/she is logged on. However, the supply of raw materials into the system, the setting of profit margins, servicing of equipment and selling the final product need a hands on interraction. I would suggest, to make it more user friendly, a player should be able to remotely administer all plants. This would allow players who dont want to fly around to just be involved in this aspect of the game.
11. Branding - just for a bit of fun, each manufactured item is branded with the name of the player who produced it. This would give manufacturers a sense of ownership and enhance their reputation. Eg. when managing the weapons on your ship, you would see Ion Laser MkIII, level 7, manufactured by JackScream etc
I think that while all the ideas mentioned in this thread have merit to different degrees, we have to concentrate on the fundamental aspects of manufacturing in the VO universe before we address some of them. Once established, a manufacturing system would act as a catalyst to further enhancements and would tie directly into player owned stations etc.
In my experience, starting out with a comprehesive, self sustaining system is important for laying the foundation for all the other ideas mentioned in this thread.
JS
While I like the tax and branding aspects, I submit that there's a serious problem inherent in the core of your suggestion.
I define that 'core' as points 4, 5 and 10; in essence, the concept of a centralized UI based crafting system incorporating twitch based interaction for furtherance of production.
The problem is that which occurs with nav beacons/coordinates: player-produced bots dominating critical game-play aspects. That crafting and its products will become a critical aspect of VO is not in dispute. That player created bots can dominate such a system is obvious as well.
Taking the case of mining operations, we see that a centralized UI system is easily manipulated by scripts/bots: already, totally independent of VO, anyone can create a script that jettisons the contents of the cargo hold every X units of time. But the problem is that one of the ways to do this is with a pre-scripted and timed set of clicks, input field selections, keystrokes, etc. When this ability is applied to mining, it is a fairly negligible exploit: at most, one can grind up one's mining level ad infinitum, without actually being at the computer. That is neither terribly useful nor significant to other players.
However, if your core approach to crafting were implemented, more complex player written scripts would run the crafting equipment (networks of machines for production, controlled from the UI interface, probably from the utter safety of a station). Since only the stockpiling of raw materials and credits would be required before setting the script in motion, the crafting system would be reduced to the same 'go spend your day while VO runs itself' approach that now dominates mining leveling. Of course, the implications would be far greater: the most complex crafting items could be produced without player input (aside from writing the script) and other players would have to deal with the script writer's comparatively greater ability to produce, just as a trade bot would be an exploit by producing credits (but this would even lack the trade bot's vulnerability of being shot down, unless machines would be part of capitol ships and their control UI accessible from there only and not stations).
Anyway, this is not a bad conception of crafting, per se, I don't think. But it won't preserve the player skill and interaction values that seem to drive the rest of VO; it would instead put the focus solely on resource gathering and credit production, prefatory to running one's uber crafting script. That said, I don't really see how things like mining and crafting can be skill based in the online context, beyond the discovery and set-up aspects... so maybe this is as good as it could get.
I define that 'core' as points 4, 5 and 10; in essence, the concept of a centralized UI based crafting system incorporating twitch based interaction for furtherance of production.
The problem is that which occurs with nav beacons/coordinates: player-produced bots dominating critical game-play aspects. That crafting and its products will become a critical aspect of VO is not in dispute. That player created bots can dominate such a system is obvious as well.
Taking the case of mining operations, we see that a centralized UI system is easily manipulated by scripts/bots: already, totally independent of VO, anyone can create a script that jettisons the contents of the cargo hold every X units of time. But the problem is that one of the ways to do this is with a pre-scripted and timed set of clicks, input field selections, keystrokes, etc. When this ability is applied to mining, it is a fairly negligible exploit: at most, one can grind up one's mining level ad infinitum, without actually being at the computer. That is neither terribly useful nor significant to other players.
However, if your core approach to crafting were implemented, more complex player written scripts would run the crafting equipment (networks of machines for production, controlled from the UI interface, probably from the utter safety of a station). Since only the stockpiling of raw materials and credits would be required before setting the script in motion, the crafting system would be reduced to the same 'go spend your day while VO runs itself' approach that now dominates mining leveling. Of course, the implications would be far greater: the most complex crafting items could be produced without player input (aside from writing the script) and other players would have to deal with the script writer's comparatively greater ability to produce, just as a trade bot would be an exploit by producing credits (but this would even lack the trade bot's vulnerability of being shot down, unless machines would be part of capitol ships and their control UI accessible from there only and not stations).
Anyway, this is not a bad conception of crafting, per se, I don't think. But it won't preserve the player skill and interaction values that seem to drive the rest of VO; it would instead put the focus solely on resource gathering and credit production, prefatory to running one's uber crafting script. That said, I don't really see how things like mining and crafting can be skill based in the online context, beyond the discovery and set-up aspects... so maybe this is as good as it could get.
You make a good point regarding scripting hacks, but there are plenty of ways to prevent that ...
You stated " it would instead put the focus solely on resource gathering and credit production".
I would argue that if a player is to adopt the role of a manufacturer, then it is basically what they have reserved themselves to - to make money, to build an empire. There is nothing wrong with that as long as it enhances the VO universe.
In addition, aspects like outsourcing, bargaining, trading etc which would be available through the 'Bar' would elevate the role of the manufacturer to something much more than just 'sit and watch the credits roll in'. You still have to bargain for the inputs to your machines - a player to player interraction which would not be easy to script (if at all possible). Regular monitoring and servicing of machinery would also require a person to be at their terminal - a random production line blockage, machinery failure etc that requires human interraction would reduce the efficiency of scripts.
My position on this is that we should not dismiss ideas on the basis of possible cheating/scripting. If those negatives (hacks) exist then let's deal with them as a separate issue and make the necessary alterations to prevent them.
JS
You stated " it would instead put the focus solely on resource gathering and credit production".
I would argue that if a player is to adopt the role of a manufacturer, then it is basically what they have reserved themselves to - to make money, to build an empire. There is nothing wrong with that as long as it enhances the VO universe.
In addition, aspects like outsourcing, bargaining, trading etc which would be available through the 'Bar' would elevate the role of the manufacturer to something much more than just 'sit and watch the credits roll in'. You still have to bargain for the inputs to your machines - a player to player interraction which would not be easy to script (if at all possible). Regular monitoring and servicing of machinery would also require a person to be at their terminal - a random production line blockage, machinery failure etc that requires human interraction would reduce the efficiency of scripts.
My position on this is that we should not dismiss ideas on the basis of possible cheating/scripting. If those negatives (hacks) exist then let's deal with them as a separate issue and make the necessary alterations to prevent them.
JS
Well, I accidently closed the window in which I was writing my response. So, you get a much more gentle reply than I'd have otherwise written.
Basically, you want to add in randomized pop-ups to the machine operations to prevent scripting of what is already a make-work, non-skill/twitch based aspect of crafting. Sadly, this cuts against one core part of VO, which is that non-VO universe based things are eschewed: more simply, there's an abhorrence for that sort of auto-magical bullshit. Things don't happen in VO because a virtual dice roll came up 6 rather than 1-5. Your pop-ups (that's what the machinery failures are; were they based off a rational system, they'd be scriptable) function like that.
Which brings me back to the resource gathering and capital raising*. If machinery is just a series of UI interactions, with bot preventing randomized pop-ups, what's the point? It seems like the issue should be what can you gather and pay for: let the stations handle the production, since making "manufacturing" a twitch exercise isn't going to work well. I think we can safely cut out the middleman, as it were, and do away with your machines idea. The basic concept of refinement (increasingly refined intermediaries being plugged back into the production line to make new and better products) and increased complexity is fine, but there's no need to make players click the UI X number of times in Y fields to get a Neutron Mk VI. Just make them get whatever is needed to produce it, and unload to the proper production facility on-station.
We want people out and interacting for crafting, not clicking away at their production line in a station. Keeping a focus on raw materials and intermediaries and production costs is the best way to do that. The machines sound cute, but are ultimately best left in the realm of AD&D dorks.
*Nice straw man, btw. When I said " it would instead put the focus solely on resource gathering and credit production", I didn't mean that it would put the focus of VO on that. Read in context, what I said was that your system would put the focus of crafting on those matters. But I see that you got a nice bit of intellectual masturbation (I would argue that if a player is to adopt the role of a manufacturer, then it is basically what they have reserved themselves to - to make money, to build an empire. There is nothing wrong with that as long as it enhances the VO universe.) out of misstating me, so here's a towel; hope you had fun.
Basically, you want to add in randomized pop-ups to the machine operations to prevent scripting of what is already a make-work, non-skill/twitch based aspect of crafting. Sadly, this cuts against one core part of VO, which is that non-VO universe based things are eschewed: more simply, there's an abhorrence for that sort of auto-magical bullshit. Things don't happen in VO because a virtual dice roll came up 6 rather than 1-5. Your pop-ups (that's what the machinery failures are; were they based off a rational system, they'd be scriptable) function like that.
Which brings me back to the resource gathering and capital raising*. If machinery is just a series of UI interactions, with bot preventing randomized pop-ups, what's the point? It seems like the issue should be what can you gather and pay for: let the stations handle the production, since making "manufacturing" a twitch exercise isn't going to work well. I think we can safely cut out the middleman, as it were, and do away with your machines idea. The basic concept of refinement (increasingly refined intermediaries being plugged back into the production line to make new and better products) and increased complexity is fine, but there's no need to make players click the UI X number of times in Y fields to get a Neutron Mk VI. Just make them get whatever is needed to produce it, and unload to the proper production facility on-station.
We want people out and interacting for crafting, not clicking away at their production line in a station. Keeping a focus on raw materials and intermediaries and production costs is the best way to do that. The machines sound cute, but are ultimately best left in the realm of AD&D dorks.
*Nice straw man, btw. When I said " it would instead put the focus solely on resource gathering and credit production", I didn't mean that it would put the focus of VO on that. Read in context, what I said was that your system would put the focus of crafting on those matters. But I see that you got a nice bit of intellectual masturbation (I would argue that if a player is to adopt the role of a manufacturer, then it is basically what they have reserved themselves to - to make money, to build an empire. There is nothing wrong with that as long as it enhances the VO universe.) out of misstating me, so here's a towel; hope you had fun.
What exactly is getting too complex and convulated? If it's the sum of all the suggestions thrown out there by the many players who have posted since the beginning of this thread, I'm not suprised. If we were to take all the rules listed here, and throw it together in some mass pile called "Crafting", none of it would work because there has been no agreed upon system yet. Not even a basis for a system has been fully drawn out. That's the Devs job anyways. Rather, what we're doing here is listing a compilation of viewpoints and ideas from all sorts of experiences based on individual experiences with the hopes that among all the twisted convulated brain children, just one or two tiny sparks of creative ingenuity might perhaps spark something in the brain of whoever spends time reading all this jazz enough to give birth to a truly beautiful creation in the next patch of VO. That being said...
1. I believe that custom weapons would not be a problem as long as the limits of the weapon in question did not interfere with the already set precedants. Consider a Plasma Cannon and a Gauss Cannon. For the most part, they function the same way, repeatedly firing damaging bolts at the cost of energy with some degree of auto-aim. The Gauss Cannon has better auto-aim, quicker DPS, and faster fired bolts, while the Plasma Cannon has better energy efficiency, and faster rate of fire. I don't see why not a player might decide to invent the "Argon Cannon", which would be a happy medium between the two.
2. Word on the street is that a new license system is being reworked sometime soon™. There's a great many directions you could go with this one, and I'ma think about it some more. I hope the reader (that's you!) does too.
3. There are currently different Mks of weapons, usually with the higher mark being better. However, I am strongly against the idea of generalising, on the grounds that oversimplification of the crafting system would take all the fun out. There are many qulifiers to the performance of a thing, and for say a missle, it could range from the purity of the fuel it uses to the material used in it's electronic wiring. I personally think it'd be great if my opponent's missle jammed because he bought it cheap off some shady lookin' guy in Sedina. Anywho, keeping the system complex is what makes Crafting fun.
4. Once again, I cry "oversimplification"! Would that in this world if my car broke down, I could just press the "service" button, slide my credit card and be done with it. Nonetheless, yes, factories of certain purposes that work at certain rates, etc. seems the way to go. This could be another interesting topic to convulate. =)
5.
6. That's fine if you want to run your station like so. If/when I own a station, you're going to pay rent, or you're going to find somewhere else. End of story.
7. Yes. In this game, the governments have the mandate of VO heaven, and the Gods are controlled by the Devs, so theoretically, the Devs are kind of like the guys who run the government. I heard incarnate talk about how he's interested in the economic repercussions of implementing a more playered controlled environment. Make him do it!
8. No. Some slices of economy will be controlled by the NPC's, some by the PC's... I think that's been settled. My hope is that we'll all get the same flavor of pie, only in different amounts. I want to be able to have anything that *Crala Tudalis can. I mean come on. You're not a Communist, are you? o_O
9. Advertisements would be nice. Allowing players to post their own missions on the Mission Board would be very neat.
e.g. "Reward: 500 cr. Spot, my little Orun Collector has got missing. He's got a pink Hive Ion Blaster, and a spot over his right thruster. If you have any information, please contact "Asuka Soryu Langley" ASAP! Thankyou. =("
10. This would create problems, not solve them.
11. I could see why this might be an option for final products. It would be obnoxious to have no control over this aspect. If my company produces the copper wiring for the inner workings of a neutron blaster, would I really care about a brand? Would I realistically be able to fit a brand on my product? Wouldn't that technically requiring another piece of machinery in my factory to stamp it on?
12. Now if you look back to that little model I was drawing up, there's something neat I didn't notice before. I'm going to assume that all stations produce atleast some goods, hence why many goods are labeled "Locally produced". And there's four kinds of stations in VO. Hmm...
Step.............. Station Type
Research........Research
Gathering.......Mining
Trade.............Commercial
Defense..........Barracks
1. I believe that custom weapons would not be a problem as long as the limits of the weapon in question did not interfere with the already set precedants. Consider a Plasma Cannon and a Gauss Cannon. For the most part, they function the same way, repeatedly firing damaging bolts at the cost of energy with some degree of auto-aim. The Gauss Cannon has better auto-aim, quicker DPS, and faster fired bolts, while the Plasma Cannon has better energy efficiency, and faster rate of fire. I don't see why not a player might decide to invent the "Argon Cannon", which would be a happy medium between the two.
2. Word on the street is that a new license system is being reworked sometime soon™. There's a great many directions you could go with this one, and I'ma think about it some more. I hope the reader (that's you!) does too.
3. There are currently different Mks of weapons, usually with the higher mark being better. However, I am strongly against the idea of generalising, on the grounds that oversimplification of the crafting system would take all the fun out. There are many qulifiers to the performance of a thing, and for say a missle, it could range from the purity of the fuel it uses to the material used in it's electronic wiring. I personally think it'd be great if my opponent's missle jammed because he bought it cheap off some shady lookin' guy in Sedina. Anywho, keeping the system complex is what makes Crafting fun.
4. Once again, I cry "oversimplification"! Would that in this world if my car broke down, I could just press the "service" button, slide my credit card and be done with it. Nonetheless, yes, factories of certain purposes that work at certain rates, etc. seems the way to go. This could be another interesting topic to convulate. =)
5.
6. That's fine if you want to run your station like so. If/when I own a station, you're going to pay rent, or you're going to find somewhere else. End of story.
7. Yes. In this game, the governments have the mandate of VO heaven, and the Gods are controlled by the Devs, so theoretically, the Devs are kind of like the guys who run the government. I heard incarnate talk about how he's interested in the economic repercussions of implementing a more playered controlled environment. Make him do it!
8. No. Some slices of economy will be controlled by the NPC's, some by the PC's... I think that's been settled. My hope is that we'll all get the same flavor of pie, only in different amounts. I want to be able to have anything that *Crala Tudalis can. I mean come on. You're not a Communist, are you? o_O
9. Advertisements would be nice. Allowing players to post their own missions on the Mission Board would be very neat.
e.g. "Reward: 500 cr. Spot, my little Orun Collector has got missing. He's got a pink Hive Ion Blaster, and a spot over his right thruster. If you have any information, please contact "Asuka Soryu Langley" ASAP! Thankyou. =("
10. This would create problems, not solve them.
11. I could see why this might be an option for final products. It would be obnoxious to have no control over this aspect. If my company produces the copper wiring for the inner workings of a neutron blaster, would I really care about a brand? Would I realistically be able to fit a brand on my product? Wouldn't that technically requiring another piece of machinery in my factory to stamp it on?
12. Now if you look back to that little model I was drawing up, there's something neat I didn't notice before. I'm going to assume that all stations produce atleast some goods, hence why many goods are labeled "Locally produced". And there's four kinds of stations in VO. Hmm...
Step.............. Station Type
Research........Research
Gathering.......Mining
Trade.............Commercial
Defense..........Barracks
You stated: "I personally think it'd be great if my opponent's missle jammed because he bought it cheap off some shady lookin' guy in Sedina."
If you consider the number of components required for the manufacture of any product .. the numbers are staggering.
Lets take your example of a missile. Every component that makes up the missile would have a 'history'. What its made of, the quality of the constituents etc. Then you would have to store all this information. Then you would have to incorporate this information into determining if, when and how the item malfunctions and how that impact the missile as a whole.
The amount of processing, data download etc would grind the game to a halt. Consider a battle, dozens of ships, missiles etc flying around ... the components and subcomponents of each would have to be processed real time.
Even if you aggragate the information to calculate the final stats and remove the history, you would still have each missile different in your arsenal.
It is not a workable model.
If you consider the number of components required for the manufacture of any product .. the numbers are staggering.
Lets take your example of a missile. Every component that makes up the missile would have a 'history'. What its made of, the quality of the constituents etc. Then you would have to store all this information. Then you would have to incorporate this information into determining if, when and how the item malfunctions and how that impact the missile as a whole.
The amount of processing, data download etc would grind the game to a halt. Consider a battle, dozens of ships, missiles etc flying around ... the components and subcomponents of each would have to be processed real time.
Even if you aggragate the information to calculate the final stats and remove the history, you would still have each missile different in your arsenal.
It is not a workable model.
Hehe. This is a fun thread. Nine giant pages, a year and a half, two posts by a dev in the entire thing, where the second one says that Incarnate will "wade through it more thoroughly sometime this week and respond" (in September '05). Gotta love it.