right and as I've said in other posts and this, a timers is not the right aproach, why not make it an energy thing. If you don't have a full battery you can't jump, that would force runners to slow to a non-turbo speed to regain their energy and then they could jump, just like with wormholes. That to me makes more sense.

And as I said in responce to the other thread about the same topic, if the spammer is not in-sector then the missles should self-destruct. But come on, missles are SOOO easy to avoid it's not even funny, so is this really that big a deal. I understand that getting followed around is not a cool thing but that is totally different from running and spamming. And I've yet to feel the wrath of Arolte so I can't say exactly how bad he really is but I've been tracked by several [BLAK] members before as well as a few others and it's not that hard to evad someone, so you must be doing it wrong whoever it is that's getting followed.

% of your hull directly affecting the delay time of your jump. I love it. It doesn't have to affect traders at all.
If your ship has 100% hull then there is no time delay.
Once your ships hull reaches 50% that's a 2 second delay.
25% is a 3.5 second delay before you can jump.

Also in order to jump you can't be moving unless your at 100%.
I LOVE IT!

/givemoney Devs 2c

John, mabye you should practice what you say, and stop whining.. Your the only one who feels this way so let the majority take the prize.

On another note, hey Kix, spell, and shape long time no see :)...

Kix shouldn't agreeing with me violate some part of our Arch Nemesis/Rival contract? I demand that you don't support me!

I'm just trying to implement something so that the next time you RUN I can take you DOWN!

o_O

[edit]YARRRR TNA[/edit]

Read my suggestion in the other active thread about this, its a nice one...

And kix, im gonna start playing again, tomorow im subscribing, lets hook up then and get the guild goin again if you want.. lol

EDIT: I cant wait, was gona wait for mortgage to go through but ima get it now lol..

>I still think that one possible fix to the problem of poeple jumping in,
>missile spamming and then jumping back out is to make JUST THAT
>more difficult by making the jump distance 4500m (maybe more?).

that perposal will directly affect the folowing things you did not mention:
1. lenth of trade routs
2. time spent returning to the battle zone after a death (thereby encouraging runners, as dying will be more anoying)
3. the ability of traders to escape pirats
The problem with nerfing running in any way is it also nerfs movment that is not intended to escape a fight, and situations that no one has a problem with (namely the whole trader vs pirat scenario). All the anti-running posts i have read have failed to account for that IMO.

TNAtits,
jhon isn't the only one who thinks running doesn't need to be nerfed.

Now, i've fought my share of battles, and lost many of them, and most of the time i fight to the death. I run for 2 reasons: 1, i'm counting coup and therefor can only call it a victory if both my oponent and myself survive, or 2, I know i'm going to loose the fight (i'm being doubel temed, i'm in a moth, etc.) and would rather not die. When i run to avoid dying it is usualy because i'm low on cash (and dying would mean i have to make more money before i can buy a replacment ship) or i don't want to have to fly back to where the action is from my home station.

That's my personal code of honor regarding running. I encourage every player to finde their own rules regarding when they will and will not run. But to claim that running needs to be nerfed because others don't share your opinion about the honerability of retreating is just arogance.

I challeneg anyone who believes running should be made more difficult, to explain without refrencing honor, why running is too easy now.

If you can justify this opinion with refrences to gameplay thet do not rely on your opinion of what is honorable then i think your sugestions will carry more weight with the devs. As it is all i hear is "players who start a fight should have to finish it" and "spamming is bad".

ok lord Q.

Here's one. Running has no consequences. In any well balanced game there is a con for every pro. right now, running has only a pro, namely you escape.

heres another. Space was meant to be dangerous in Vendetta, Incarnate has stated he wants a game that has a feeling of some tension and fear, where entering dangerous areas should have you slightly nervous as long as you are in that area (grey space)[i paraphrased]

right now, because running is so simple that i dont know ANYONE who is actually scared of space, grey or otherwise.

3. While PvP is meant to be a part of the game and dying isnt really supposed to be feared, IMO there should be some tension involved in deciding to attack another player. It has nothing to do with honor i simply feel that there should be some consequence for choosing to start a fight, its a game balance issue. Again, with running being so simple, there is very little real danger in getting into a combat, if you start to loose, you just flee and there is very little chance you can be caught.

While we're at it, I think /explode should also be removed. It's about as bad as running away for some people. Just thought I'd mention that too.

no arolte /explode can remain, just give it a timer.

there ARE occasions where bugs and unexpected problems can trap a ship. I was stuck INSIDE the dock to sedina D-14 the other day (ok its been about 2 weeks now) because i got blasted there by a sunflare. If i couldnt explode i would have had to wait for a dev/guide to move me.

TNA shove it up your ass, I'm voicing my opinion on a thread, running is not an issue, if someone is getting their but kicked and then decide its time to retreat, they should not be penalized for it, that's rediculous. It's pure mob mentality now to get the "runner", what ever that means. Unless there is a reason to stay and fight like a convoy to protect or a capital ship or station, then the only thing your fighting for is your life, and if your going to die, it's better to retreat, regroup and attack again. Not just roll over and die. That is purely a deathmatch mentality and is somewhat outdated for VO. To that end I will continue to bitch and moan as much as you all do about the runners untill there is some sort of decision made about it. Get used to it.

I'm usually not allowed by Mark to talk, but I will anyway.

I'm not sure running should be made much harder than it is today. it's a viable tactic in many situations, and will be more so in the future. it's not the running itself that is the problem, it is the use of the ability to run as a means to achive certain goals that is a problem.

(cue differences between techincal and social problems)

Discourage running? Make it harder for a trader to run?

I don't understand what this is all about. The moth has already taken a downgrade and it's no harder for a pirate to run from a fight than a trader.

Ok, suppose the moth takes another hit and escorts become available. You don't think a pirate is going to run from a loosing battle? Hell, they already do!

The incentive for both parties in this particular conflict, is profit. When the potential for loss becomes greater than the potential for gain, cut and run.

The thing here is, you people want to make pirating a profitable profession. It could be if you targeted NPC's as well as PC ships. Get over it!

Hey! There's an idea! With all this focus on improving the hive, why not apply some of the improvements to the NPC traders also?

Well said, Bidoc. I never even thought of NPCs as being a source of profit. I guess pirates want traders to fight back. Or they're so lonely they want someone to talk to. So maybe you're right that the NPC traders need improvement also, to make them become a desirable target for pirates as well.

"With all this focus on improving the hive, why not apply some of the improvements to the NPC traders also?"
We fully intend to. I'll be working on some underpinnings to this today, since they are the same underpinnings necessary to make the strike forces smarter.

Back on topic... (and hopefully this will calm johnhawl down a bit), we have no intention of turning the game back into spacequake. We want death to matter more (but not be so inconvenient that players are annoyed or avoid fighting), and that will clearly lead to more people running. What we want is for there to be a more balanced chance of getting away and killing your prey. This balance should be shifted by numbers, skill, and equipment, so that there is incentive to act in groups (and/or hire npc escorts which are coming Soon(tm)).

But none of that is really the reason for the fresh wave of discussion on running. The reason is that Arolte has been accused of using the ease of running to "harass" people. That is, to jump in, spam and jump out. If he follows you, you can get away because of the ease of running, but that doesn't help you if you want to hang out with a group in B8 or somewhere else. And those who would like to hunt him down after he spams and leaves are prevented by how easy it is to get away. In other words the current game mechanics favors the loner.

We'd like a group of people to have a better chance of getting their prey or getting away. For the lone trader, you'll have the choice of operating in safe-space (which will be getting safer), or working with player or npc escorts (and players will obviously be better). People who want to play peaceful traders/miners will be able to do so, but the thing that sets this game apart from other MMOs is that you should never feel *completely* safe, because we won't have any unrealistic, hard-coded mechanisms for preventing your death. If you really want to play a purely PvE game, and never be killed by another player, this is not the game for you.

John is reading through all these threads and collecting the best ideas. Ideas about game mechanics, not game-philosophy! A post about anything else is just one more he has to skim through. So can we please stick to suggestions for *how* to do this *right*, rather than debating whether or not we *should*?

Ok, now back to work for me! Man I've gotta stop reading this stuff; for every good suggestion I see, I read ten posts that just fill me with the need to correct people's spelling, inaccurate statements of fact, and opinions I just can't understand.

Haha, I helped starbucks form an anti arolte guild XD.... and here is my other suggestion...its a pretty neat one so take the time to read it.

Mabye it'd be better if alongside the 3000m from large objects rule that you have to be 1000m from any ships...although that would make it really hard to get away...so i propose 5 seconds after you are first shot or damaged by any such weapons that rule is lifted... (NOTE: WE CAN TWEAK THE 5 SECONDS AROUND TIL ITS FINE)

This makes it so the pirate has a fairly good chance of killing the trader, and if the traders good at dodgeing he has a fairly good chance at getting away. Furthermore...if they did get shot at and this rule was lifted it should give a little bit of danger to the pirate. Now i propose that there be a 25% chance of them warping right into the pirate taking the full ammount of the smaller ships health from the bigger ship and killing the smaller ship instantly, seeing as how most traders are in bigger ships this will give them a pk and ultimatly make them more vulnerable to being killed until theyre dock..(It will also give the killer the killer 25% chance to get their pk if the person is running from a battle) OF COURSE, all this can only happen once your out past the 3000m from large objects, that will solve pvp running also..

READ AND BE CONFUSED...

You still miss my point momerath42, running is not that bad, make tracking a player that jumps easier rather then nerfing the ability to run. Give us new equipment that would allow us to attach a tracking device, don't let missles that have been spam launched to stay alive after the ship has jumped away. It's still quite possible to catch ships that run, perhaps not ALL ships can do this but that's the choice you make when you undock from a station in what ever configuration you decide. So if you know that your going to have to deal with players like Arolte that are going to use such tactics, choose a better ship, or have friends ready to chase after that player. Adding a timer to jumping sectors will make life in VO horribly slower then it already is. I still feel that the easiest way to make jumping a bit slower is to make sector jumps just like system jumps by requiring a needed amount of energy available in your batter to make the jump. I think it would also be an improvement to the game if each sector that you traveled required more energy so an A1 to A16 jump would require you to make at a minimum of at least 2 jumps. But that's a different thread.

I'm right there with Lord Q, his post was well writen.

Arolte, its like you dont even read others posts and think about em..you wont be satisfied unless its done your way..

EDIT: There are alot of good posts in here but you blew most of em away unless they werent your way..

"TNA shove it up your ass, I'm voicing my opinion on a thread, running is not an issue, if someone is getting their but kicked and then decide its time to retreat, they should not be penalized for it, that's rediculous."
That, and the rest of the post it is from, are not constructive suggestions about the general problem of people being able to easily get away (what I was calling running). Your latest post is far more helpful, but I don't know how I'm "missing the point" when you said nothing like that in your last post. When I say that we need suggestions about "running", I mean getting away, not just flying away and/or jumping. Tracking devices, in my mind, constitute a perfectly rational way of dealing with the problem we're discussing, and I would still call it "nerfing the ability to run". But thats just semantics, and I don't want this to be a semantic discussion. I want to read more details about how to make tracking a player easier... its pros and cons, possible exploits, etc.

Well for the majority of these threads the preferred idea is to make it more difficult to actually "jump," or make a delay in the time it takes to "jump", I don't see either of those as being problems. That's as specific as I can get.