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The difference in load time was used to illustrate (or I should say compensate for) the time spent on plotting the coordinates of the target craft and following him. In other words if someone were actually able to follow the target instantly, the Behemoth would be dead meat on a regular basis, with an average of 2-sector chases under the current speeds. And this is with a Hornet Convoy Guardian, a ship which doesn't have the fastest rate of acceleration or top speeds.
But this is merely one case illustrating my point, and is not necessarily 100% proof positive in any way. I was merely fortunate enough to run into this situation and share my experience with you to help add to the discussion. So I just thought I'd point out to all those naysayers that is in fact possible to chase down a Behemoth with even medium ships in the current version.
But this is merely one case illustrating my point, and is not necessarily 100% proof positive in any way. I was merely fortunate enough to run into this situation and share my experience with you to help add to the discussion. So I just thought I'd point out to all those naysayers that is in fact possible to chase down a Behemoth with even medium ships in the current version.
If a pilot allowed you to chase him out of the sector and didn't make an empty sector his next jump (I'm assuming that's why he didn't immediately warp again), he deserved to die. That is an interesting example, though.
I feel that it's the exception rather than the rule, however. In my experience a Behemoth can escape even a skilled pirate 99% of the time if the pilot knows what he's doing.
I'm also a bit curious as to how you managed to destroy the Behemoth using an all energy loadout after you jumped (you had an empty battery?) while all the behemoth pilot had to do was start boosting.
I feel that it's the exception rather than the rule, however. In my experience a Behemoth can escape even a skilled pirate 99% of the time if the pilot knows what he's doing.
I'm also a bit curious as to how you managed to destroy the Behemoth using an all energy loadout after you jumped (you had an empty battery?) while all the behemoth pilot had to do was start boosting.
If both users hav eth eexact same loadtimes, then any trader worth his dime will hav eplotted a dual empty sector jump.
You can after all be 500m of which gives more then enough time for you to miss the next person x jumped to y.
You can after all be 500m of which gives more then enough time for you to miss the next person x jumped to y.
What if we had several different variants of the behemoth?
Behemoth MkI
-/-/-/8/4
Armor: 45k
Cargo: 120 cu
Top Speed: 160 m/s
Turbo Thrust: 1,000 N
Behemoth MkII (Courier variant)
-/-/-/11/4
Armor: 40k
Cargo: 100 cu
Top Speed: 180 m/s
Turbo Thrust: 1,200 N
Behemoth MkIII (Armored variant)
5/-/-/12/5
Armor: 50k
Cargo: 90 cu
Top Speed: 170 m/s
Turbo Thrust: 1,100 N
TPG Behemoth Type X (Elite variant)
5/-/-/13/7
+960 TPG standing
Armor: 45k
Cargo: 110 cu
Top Speed: 190 m/s
Turbo Thrust: 1,100 N
Behemoth MkI
-/-/-/8/4
Armor: 45k
Cargo: 120 cu
Top Speed: 160 m/s
Turbo Thrust: 1,000 N
Behemoth MkII (Courier variant)
-/-/-/11/4
Armor: 40k
Cargo: 100 cu
Top Speed: 180 m/s
Turbo Thrust: 1,200 N
Behemoth MkIII (Armored variant)
5/-/-/12/5
Armor: 50k
Cargo: 90 cu
Top Speed: 170 m/s
Turbo Thrust: 1,100 N
TPG Behemoth Type X (Elite variant)
5/-/-/13/7
+960 TPG standing
Armor: 45k
Cargo: 110 cu
Top Speed: 190 m/s
Turbo Thrust: 1,100 N
Because within a very short time everyone would simply be flying the Elite Variant.
jumping in a little late on this thread here, but I'm definitely in favor of slowing that big beast down a lot. I like escorting traders, but the way it is atm, the escort is useally just a lump of concrete hanging on the traders leg. Pretty useless in other words.
Nice variants btw Phaserlight, only, I wouldn't let any of them go faster then 175, but thats my opinion on that.
Nice variants btw Phaserlight, only, I wouldn't let any of them go faster then 175, but thats my opinion on that.
I like the variants, but the bulk missions would have to change marginally to fit the new moths. Good work.
> Because within a very short time everyone would simply be flying the Elite Variant.
Oh? Did you notice that the Elite Variant was a TPG special, and therefore would only be available at TPG stations? Also it only had 110 cu capacity, less than the 120 of the current Behemoth, and less than the 120 of the suggested Mk1 variant.
> I like the variants, but the bulk missions would have to change marginally to fit the new moths.
Why would they have to be changed? Where do the rules say you should be able to finish a bulk mission in one trip? I would love it if there were more bulk missions that even with a Moth would take 2, or even 3 trips. And currently there are some missions that would take 2 trips, even with a moth, so it wouldn't even be a big change.
I like the proposed variants.
Oh? Did you notice that the Elite Variant was a TPG special, and therefore would only be available at TPG stations? Also it only had 110 cu capacity, less than the 120 of the current Behemoth, and less than the 120 of the suggested Mk1 variant.
> I like the variants, but the bulk missions would have to change marginally to fit the new moths.
Why would they have to be changed? Where do the rules say you should be able to finish a bulk mission in one trip? I would love it if there were more bulk missions that even with a Moth would take 2, or even 3 trips. And currently there are some missions that would take 2 trips, even with a moth, so it wouldn't even be a big change.
I like the proposed variants.
I like the different variants. Give them guys with 13 trade some thing.
but there already is a maud for them
heh all bulk missions take 2 trips in a moth once you pass trade 14.
every trader would use the Elite Variant, and those ships would be just as uber as todays Moths. heck, their reduced cargo loads would make them even harder to catch.
So, every trader is going to be buying their ship from TPG? Man, those TPG businessmen are going to be loving this. Personally, as I tend to do most of my trading in Itani space, I don't think I'll be using the Elite variant, as it wouldn't be readily available there.
The reduced capacity -> reduced mass -> better acceleration -> harder to catch is valid reasoning (I made the same argument back when everyone was crying for the CentII & Rune to get their cargo reduced, but they got reduced anyway). I'd say give the Elite Behemoth variant a top speed of 175m/s, and the others 160m/s to 170m/s, along with reducing the capacity of most of the variants.
The reduced capacity -> reduced mass -> better acceleration -> harder to catch is valid reasoning (I made the same argument back when everyone was crying for the CentII & Rune to get their cargo reduced, but they got reduced anyway). I'd say give the Elite Behemoth variant a top speed of 175m/s, and the others 160m/s to 170m/s, along with reducing the capacity of most of the variants.
every fighter buys their Cent from Orion. :-)
apart from that, 'aye'. =)
apart from that, 'aye'. =)
No. Every fighter near an Orion station buys their Cent from Orion, if they want a Cent. I buy my Cents from Itani stations. Sure, traders near TPG stations will buy the TPG Elite Behemoth, but I doubt that all traders will exclusively trade around TPG stations.
Re: Beolach
> I'd say give the Elite Behemoth variant a top speed of 175m/s, and the others 160m/s to 170m/s, along with reducing the capacity of most of the variants.
Personally, I still wouldn't use it if its top speed were limited to only 175 m/s. Instead, I would switch back to an Aggresso. Arolte described in his post ( see http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/10752?page=3#125054 ) how he was able to shoot down even a 190 m/s top speed Behemoth using just a Hornet; viz:
> Don't know if this really matters, but I took down an Itani Behemoth in Ukari today, using nothing more than a Hornet Convoy Guardian equipped with four
> Axia Accelerated Positrons.
Although, in his particular situation, part of the reason was his faster loading time, part of the reason may have been that the Behemoth may have stumbled into an unlabeled asteroid field (I've actually seen a number of these). After reading his post, I decided that I would probably stop trading in gray space with a Behemoth if its top speed were reduced.
Even currently, all that's necessary to kill a Behemoth is for the pirate to be flying a suitably armed Hornet Convoy Guardian, SkyCommand Prometheus, or Centaur Aggresso within 1000 m of the Behemoth when it first warps, then emerge near the Behemoth together in an unlabeled sector with asteroids where the Behemoth is unlucky enough to emerge within about 1000 m of an asteroid.
Not all asteroid fields are labeled. This situation is actually more likely than it sounds. I know some unlabeled sectors with many asteroids in them. I think that either Edras E-6 or D-7 was one of them (I can't check now because I'm far from Edras). I've plotted multi-jump courses that have passed through one of these sectors, then had to turbo to the 3000 m line in the unlabeled sector because I had emerged near an asteroid (actually, many asteroids). (I think that I have seen sectors in Odia like that, too, probably somewhere around Odia O-14, if I remember correctly.)
If the Behemoth is unlucky enough to stumble into one of these unlabeled asteroid fields after it warps within 1000 m of the suitably equipped pirate, it doesn't have much chance even at 190 m/s. Reducing its speed even further will reduce that chance significantly. Therefore, I think that the Behemoth's top speed should be maintained, but that its level requirements be increased significantly (to, say, Trading and Commerce License level 13).
-- DekuDekuplex Ornitier
> I'd say give the Elite Behemoth variant a top speed of 175m/s, and the others 160m/s to 170m/s, along with reducing the capacity of most of the variants.
Personally, I still wouldn't use it if its top speed were limited to only 175 m/s. Instead, I would switch back to an Aggresso. Arolte described in his post ( see http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/10752?page=3#125054 ) how he was able to shoot down even a 190 m/s top speed Behemoth using just a Hornet; viz:
> Don't know if this really matters, but I took down an Itani Behemoth in Ukari today, using nothing more than a Hornet Convoy Guardian equipped with four
> Axia Accelerated Positrons.
Although, in his particular situation, part of the reason was his faster loading time, part of the reason may have been that the Behemoth may have stumbled into an unlabeled asteroid field (I've actually seen a number of these). After reading his post, I decided that I would probably stop trading in gray space with a Behemoth if its top speed were reduced.
Even currently, all that's necessary to kill a Behemoth is for the pirate to be flying a suitably armed Hornet Convoy Guardian, SkyCommand Prometheus, or Centaur Aggresso within 1000 m of the Behemoth when it first warps, then emerge near the Behemoth together in an unlabeled sector with asteroids where the Behemoth is unlucky enough to emerge within about 1000 m of an asteroid.
Not all asteroid fields are labeled. This situation is actually more likely than it sounds. I know some unlabeled sectors with many asteroids in them. I think that either Edras E-6 or D-7 was one of them (I can't check now because I'm far from Edras). I've plotted multi-jump courses that have passed through one of these sectors, then had to turbo to the 3000 m line in the unlabeled sector because I had emerged near an asteroid (actually, many asteroids). (I think that I have seen sectors in Odia like that, too, probably somewhere around Odia O-14, if I remember correctly.)
If the Behemoth is unlucky enough to stumble into one of these unlabeled asteroid fields after it warps within 1000 m of the suitably equipped pirate, it doesn't have much chance even at 190 m/s. Reducing its speed even further will reduce that chance significantly. Therefore, I think that the Behemoth's top speed should be maintained, but that its level requirements be increased significantly (to, say, Trading and Commerce License level 13).
-- DekuDekuplex Ornitier
That's a whole lot of ifs, Deku. If the pirate has the right ship/loadout, if he has a fast loading time, if the behemoth is unlucky enough to jump into an uncharted asteroid field (or an ion storm) if they come out of warp in roughly the same location... then yes, the pirate has a chance to destroy the behemoth...
More likely, this would be the case: http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/10752?page=4#125103
Traders also get to know those uncharted asteroid fields quickly since they are a big timekiller.
It's also great that you would no longer use the behemoth if its speed were dropped... we need some diversity among traders. Personally, I would still use it at 160 m/s since it could make a bulk mission in one run, making it twice as fast as using a 'Taur. I'd just be a little more on guard and judicious in plotting my jumps.
More likely, this would be the case: http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/10752?page=4#125103
Traders also get to know those uncharted asteroid fields quickly since they are a big timekiller.
It's also great that you would no longer use the behemoth if its speed were dropped... we need some diversity among traders. Personally, I would still use it at 160 m/s since it could make a bulk mission in one run, making it twice as fast as using a 'Taur. I'd just be a little more on guard and judicious in plotting my jumps.
Re TPG variant: everybody would fly them in the grey and UIT, which are the only places where pirates can regularly operate; in itani and serco space, good luck to the pirates, they'll need it...
Re behemoths being pirated by SCPs and agresso: lol The pirate's best hope in such ships is the trader issuing on a roid when he turboes away.
Re nobody flying moths any longer if top speed is reduced: Traders who are are unlikely to take any chances sure will do that. But they already trade mostly in safe systems anyway.
Re behemoths being pirated by SCPs and agresso: lol The pirate's best hope in such ships is the trader issuing on a roid when he turboes away.
Re nobody flying moths any longer if top speed is reduced: Traders who are are unlikely to take any chances sure will do that. But they already trade mostly in safe systems anyway.
All right, what if the turbo thrust were also reduced a little as per Spellcast's suggestion?
Moths need a nerfing. They always have. C'est le jeu, et c'est la vie.