Forums » Suggestions
> It's an elite trading ship, requiring high license levels
Oh, that is so untrue. At -/-/-8/4 it does NOT require high license levels. All of the Mauds require just as high, and the Tunguska MMaud requires 5/-/-/9/4, and the Valent Maud requires 8/-/-/13/-. 8, especially in trade, is NOT a high license requirement.
But even beside that, slowing down the Moth would NOT "remove the last de facto elite trading ship." The Moth's huge asset is its massive cargo hold. Which actually, I would like to see dropped to 100 or 90, except for a UIT special Behemoth w/ 120, but that's not what this thread is about. All this thread is about is slowing it down a bit. It would still be by far the largest capacity trading ship, and as such would still almost always be the best. The only time it wouldn't be the best would be high risk routes, where it would be vulnerable.
I think that the main problem with the Behemoth is not with its functionality, but with the fact that it is too easy to obtain. Perhaps its Trading and Commerce License level should be increased to thirteen, and that of the Valent Marauder Rev B should be decreased to eight. Also, perhaps the Behemoth should become a special faction-specific ship, available only to players with at least 720 TPG standing, for example. Then its requirements would match its status as the de facto elite trading ship.
That would be better than it is now, but would still have the problem of the Moth being way too uber.
Oh, that is so untrue. At -/-/-8/4 it does NOT require high license levels. All of the Mauds require just as high, and the Tunguska MMaud requires 5/-/-/9/4, and the Valent Maud requires 8/-/-/13/-. 8, especially in trade, is NOT a high license requirement.
But even beside that, slowing down the Moth would NOT "remove the last de facto elite trading ship." The Moth's huge asset is its massive cargo hold. Which actually, I would like to see dropped to 100 or 90, except for a UIT special Behemoth w/ 120, but that's not what this thread is about. All this thread is about is slowing it down a bit. It would still be by far the largest capacity trading ship, and as such would still almost always be the best. The only time it wouldn't be the best would be high risk routes, where it would be vulnerable.
I think that the main problem with the Behemoth is not with its functionality, but with the fact that it is too easy to obtain. Perhaps its Trading and Commerce License level should be increased to thirteen, and that of the Valent Marauder Rev B should be decreased to eight. Also, perhaps the Behemoth should become a special faction-specific ship, available only to players with at least 720 TPG standing, for example. Then its requirements would match its status as the de facto elite trading ship.
That would be better than it is now, but would still have the problem of the Moth being way too uber.
Re: Beloach
> t -/-/-8/4 it does NOT require high license levels. All of the Mauds require just
> as high, and the Tunguska MMaud requires 5/-/-/9/4, and the Valent Maud
> requires 8/-/-/13/-. 8, especially in trade, is NOT a high license
> requirement.
In that case, the Behemoth's license requirements should be increased to, say, Trading and Commerce License level thirteen and Mining level six (mining and prospecting are extraordinarily monotonous compared even to trading). But it should still be an elite variant.
Re: Beolach
> That would be better than it is now, but would still have the problem of the
> Moth being way too uber.
The Behemoth is not "über." It has a slow turn ratio, which makes it unsuited for combat. In addition, fully loaded, it also has a relatively slow acceleration rate compared to that of any pirate.
There needs to be at least one elite variant of each type of ship in order for there to be a goal to aim for. Currently, as I see it, those ships are the following:
* combat: Itani IDF Valkyrie Vigilant / Serco SkyCommand Prometheus
* trading: Behemoth
* mining: Tunguska Mineral Marauder
As I see it, the main problem is that the Marauder should merit a listing among the elite trading variants above, but currently it doesn't. I would use your idea for "cargo mass reduction" to give the Marauder a special standing in the trading category above.
Until there are more users online, I still can't agree with slowing down the Behemoth. There need to be at least, say, a minimum of 50 users online on slow nights and 200+ users online on peak nights to hire escorts for this idea to be practical.
-- DekuDekuplex Ornitier
> t -/-/-8/4 it does NOT require high license levels. All of the Mauds require just
> as high, and the Tunguska MMaud requires 5/-/-/9/4, and the Valent Maud
> requires 8/-/-/13/-. 8, especially in trade, is NOT a high license
> requirement.
In that case, the Behemoth's license requirements should be increased to, say, Trading and Commerce License level thirteen and Mining level six (mining and prospecting are extraordinarily monotonous compared even to trading). But it should still be an elite variant.
Re: Beolach
> That would be better than it is now, but would still have the problem of the
> Moth being way too uber.
The Behemoth is not "über." It has a slow turn ratio, which makes it unsuited for combat. In addition, fully loaded, it also has a relatively slow acceleration rate compared to that of any pirate.
There needs to be at least one elite variant of each type of ship in order for there to be a goal to aim for. Currently, as I see it, those ships are the following:
* combat: Itani IDF Valkyrie Vigilant / Serco SkyCommand Prometheus
* trading: Behemoth
* mining: Tunguska Mineral Marauder
As I see it, the main problem is that the Marauder should merit a listing among the elite trading variants above, but currently it doesn't. I would use your idea for "cargo mass reduction" to give the Marauder a special standing in the trading category above.
Until there are more users online, I still can't agree with slowing down the Behemoth. There need to be at least, say, a minimum of 50 users online on slow nights and 200+ users online on peak nights to hire escorts for this idea to be practical.
-- DekuDekuplex Ornitier
I just took my Serco character (-1000 Itani standing) all the way from Geira Rutilus to Edras, flying a Behemoth through Itani space. I jumped directly from WH to WH, getting caught in a few ion storms, which lost the SF, so every time I lost the SF, I waited at the WH for them to catch up before taking off again. They did actually get be down to 28%, but I got through. If I had acted halfway intelligent, and jumped empty sectors to lose the SF, and not waiting for them to catch up again, I would have gotten through w/ 100%. Now I'm going back the other way, loaded with 120 units of XiRite Alloy. Think I can make it?
The Behemoth IS uber.
[edit]
Oh, and if you think the Tunguska MMaud is the "elite" mining ship, I have another thing I disagree with you on. Either the Behemoth or any of the Centaurs are MUCH better.
[/edit]
The Behemoth IS uber.
[edit]
Oh, and if you think the Tunguska MMaud is the "elite" mining ship, I have another thing I disagree with you on. Either the Behemoth or any of the Centaurs are MUCH better.
[/edit]
Re: Beolach
> I just took my Serco character (-1000 Itani standing) all the way from Geira
> Rutilus to Edras, flying a Behemoth through Itani space. I jumped directly from
> WH to WH, getting caught in a few ion storms, which lost the SF, so every time I
> lost the SF, I waited at the WH for them to catch up before taking off again.
> They did actually get be down to 28%, but I got through. If I had acted halfway
> intelligent, and jumped empty sectors to lose the SF, and not waiting for them
> to catch up again, I would have gotten through w/ 100%. Now I'm going back
> the other way, loaded with 120 units of XiRite Alloy. Think I can make it?
Perhaps you have exceptional skills in avoiding Aerna Seekers. Smittens posted a message earlier about not having been so lucky:
Re: Smittens
> However, if anyone has ever tried flying through Hated space in a Moth will
> know, you'll do fine until a Seeker hits you, because you just can't get going fast
> enough again to outrun anything.
Try letting just one Aerna Seeker hit you in a fully loaded Behemoth, then try accelerating away from the Strike Forces alive.
Re: Beolach
> [edit]
> Oh, and if you think the Tunguska MMaud is the "elite" mining ship, I have
> another thing I disagree with you on. Either the Behemoth or any of the
> Centaurs are MUCH better.
> [/edit]
Actually, I considered that point, too, but the Behemoth can't mount a mineral scanner because it lacks a small port, and then which Centaur is the elite mining variant? Certainly not the Tunguska Centaur Aggresso, because it is best suited for combat, but then the other Centaurs are inferior in every way to it. I wanted a specific unique elite variant for mining.
-- DekuDekuplex Ornitier
> I just took my Serco character (-1000 Itani standing) all the way from Geira
> Rutilus to Edras, flying a Behemoth through Itani space. I jumped directly from
> WH to WH, getting caught in a few ion storms, which lost the SF, so every time I
> lost the SF, I waited at the WH for them to catch up before taking off again.
> They did actually get be down to 28%, but I got through. If I had acted halfway
> intelligent, and jumped empty sectors to lose the SF, and not waiting for them
> to catch up again, I would have gotten through w/ 100%. Now I'm going back
> the other way, loaded with 120 units of XiRite Alloy. Think I can make it?
Perhaps you have exceptional skills in avoiding Aerna Seekers. Smittens posted a message earlier about not having been so lucky:
Re: Smittens
> However, if anyone has ever tried flying through Hated space in a Moth will
> know, you'll do fine until a Seeker hits you, because you just can't get going fast
> enough again to outrun anything.
Try letting just one Aerna Seeker hit you in a fully loaded Behemoth, then try accelerating away from the Strike Forces alive.
Re: Beolach
> [edit]
> Oh, and if you think the Tunguska MMaud is the "elite" mining ship, I have
> another thing I disagree with you on. Either the Behemoth or any of the
> Centaurs are MUCH better.
> [/edit]
Actually, I considered that point, too, but the Behemoth can't mount a mineral scanner because it lacks a small port, and then which Centaur is the elite mining variant? Certainly not the Tunguska Centaur Aggresso, because it is best suited for combat, but then the other Centaurs are inferior in every way to it. I wanted a specific unique elite variant for mining.
-- DekuDekuplex Ornitier
> Perhaps you have exceptional skills in avoiding Aerna Seekers.
> Smittens posted a message earlier about not having been so lucky
No, they caught me. I specifically waited for them to catch me. That's why I was down to 28%. But the Moth has so much armor & is fast enough that even after being caught, it can get away again.
Once you know the 'roid locations, you don't need a scanner. And just because the Aggresso is good in combat, doesn't mean it's not good at mining. The Aggresso is the BEST Centaur for mining, because it has the largest cargo capacity (and the highest thrust). Its lack of infiniturbo is only a minor drawback.
Anyway, for my flying through Itani space in a KOS Serco moth, loaded w/ 120 units of XiRite alloy, that didn't go so well. Came out of jump in Edras I-2 w/ a Station Guard less than 300m from me. I was homed in Geira, so I couldn't get XiRite, so I went back through with 120 units of Ferric ore. Actually encounted a player in an IBG (along with the SF) this time, who chased me a couple systems. But the IBG's drain was too high for him to keep up for very far. Got through to Edras with 60% armor this time.
> Smittens posted a message earlier about not having been so lucky
No, they caught me. I specifically waited for them to catch me. That's why I was down to 28%. But the Moth has so much armor & is fast enough that even after being caught, it can get away again.
Once you know the 'roid locations, you don't need a scanner. And just because the Aggresso is good in combat, doesn't mean it's not good at mining. The Aggresso is the BEST Centaur for mining, because it has the largest cargo capacity (and the highest thrust). Its lack of infiniturbo is only a minor drawback.
Anyway, for my flying through Itani space in a KOS Serco moth, loaded w/ 120 units of XiRite alloy, that didn't go so well. Came out of jump in Edras I-2 w/ a Station Guard less than 300m from me. I was homed in Geira, so I couldn't get XiRite, so I went back through with 120 units of Ferric ore. Actually encounted a player in an IBG (along with the SF) this time, who chased me a couple systems. But the IBG's drain was too high for him to keep up for very far. Got through to Edras with 60% armor this time.
Re: Beolach
> Once you know the 'roid locations, you don't need a scanner.
Not always, particularly if one has a bad memory. I've occasionally had difficulty in finding asteroids with high percentages of Pentric ore 5000+ m away from a station, even with a mineral scanner, if they were in a densely populated asteroid field. Without one, it would have been exceedingly difficult, if not impossible.
> The Aggresso is the BEST Centaur for mining, because it has the largest cargo capacity (and the highest thrust). Its lack of infiniturbo is only a minor drawback.
Okay, point conceded. I just hope that somebody doesn't now come along and demand why the Aggresso isn't listed as an elite combat ship instead of as an elite mining ship. Here's the revised elite variant list:
* combat: Itani IDF Valkyrie Vigilant / Serco SkyCommand Prometheus
* trading: Behemoth
* mining: Tunguska Centaur Aggresso
> Anyway, for my flying through Itani space in a KOS Serco moth, loaded w/ 120
> units of XiRite alloy, that didn't go so well. Came out of jump in Edras I-2 w/ a
> Station Guard less than 300m from me. I was homed in Geira, so I couldn't get
> XiRite, so I went back through with 120 units of Ferric ore. Actually encounted
> a player in an IBG (along with the SF) this time, who chased me a couple
> systems. But the IBG's drain was too high for him to keep up for very far. Got
> through to Edras with 60% armor this time.
Hm. In that case, perhaps the Behemoth's turbo energy drain should be increased from 50 m/s to 55 m/s. That would remove its infiniboost, and make it slightly more vulnerable at wormholes, without reducing its ability to carry large amounts of trading items in short amounts of time significantly.
Since most, if not all, other elite variants also lack infiniboost, then the current Behemoth's description should be changed from "Behemoth Heavy Transport" to "Behemoth Heavy Transport (Elite Variant)," and the cargo capacity should be increased from 120 cu to 124 cu in order to be able to carry out any trading guild bulk procurement mission in a single round trip (assuming that the current maximum missions are not then increased to more than 124 to compensate).
In addition, a slower variant, with, say, a cargo capacity of 80 cu, a mass of 28000 kg, a thrust of 450 N, and a turbo energy drain of 50 m/s should be added to replace the current variant.
-- DekuDekuplex Ornitier
> Once you know the 'roid locations, you don't need a scanner.
Not always, particularly if one has a bad memory. I've occasionally had difficulty in finding asteroids with high percentages of Pentric ore 5000+ m away from a station, even with a mineral scanner, if they were in a densely populated asteroid field. Without one, it would have been exceedingly difficult, if not impossible.
> The Aggresso is the BEST Centaur for mining, because it has the largest cargo capacity (and the highest thrust). Its lack of infiniturbo is only a minor drawback.
Okay, point conceded. I just hope that somebody doesn't now come along and demand why the Aggresso isn't listed as an elite combat ship instead of as an elite mining ship. Here's the revised elite variant list:
* combat: Itani IDF Valkyrie Vigilant / Serco SkyCommand Prometheus
* trading: Behemoth
* mining: Tunguska Centaur Aggresso
> Anyway, for my flying through Itani space in a KOS Serco moth, loaded w/ 120
> units of XiRite alloy, that didn't go so well. Came out of jump in Edras I-2 w/ a
> Station Guard less than 300m from me. I was homed in Geira, so I couldn't get
> XiRite, so I went back through with 120 units of Ferric ore. Actually encounted
> a player in an IBG (along with the SF) this time, who chased me a couple
> systems. But the IBG's drain was too high for him to keep up for very far. Got
> through to Edras with 60% armor this time.
Hm. In that case, perhaps the Behemoth's turbo energy drain should be increased from 50 m/s to 55 m/s. That would remove its infiniboost, and make it slightly more vulnerable at wormholes, without reducing its ability to carry large amounts of trading items in short amounts of time significantly.
Since most, if not all, other elite variants also lack infiniboost, then the current Behemoth's description should be changed from "Behemoth Heavy Transport" to "Behemoth Heavy Transport (Elite Variant)," and the cargo capacity should be increased from 120 cu to 124 cu in order to be able to carry out any trading guild bulk procurement mission in a single round trip (assuming that the current maximum missions are not then increased to more than 124 to compensate).
In addition, a slower variant, with, say, a cargo capacity of 80 cu, a mass of 28000 kg, a thrust of 450 N, and a turbo energy drain of 50 m/s should be added to replace the current variant.
-- DekuDekuplex Ornitier
Heh, raising the Moth's turbo drain to 55 would be a much bigger nerf than dropping its turbo speed a bit, because it would make WHs into deathtraps for Moths. The Moth has to be able to start getting up to speed immediately after coming out of a WH, but if it doesn't have infiniturbo, it can't, it has to wait for its battery to charge. Without infiniturbo, a Moth had better hope the far side of the WH is clear, and that no enemy chases it through for at least a couple seconds, because if any enemy catches it with its battery drained close to a WH, it's dead.
Really, Deku, a drop to the Behemoth's turbo speed wouldn't be that big of a deal. The Moth would still be the best trade ship, it would just be a little bit more vulnerable, which would be a good thing.
Really, Deku, a drop to the Behemoth's turbo speed wouldn't be that big of a deal. The Moth would still be the best trade ship, it would just be a little bit more vulnerable, which would be a good thing.
Re: Beolach
> Heh, raising the Moth's turbo drain to 55 would be a much bigger nerf than
> dropping its turbo speed a bit, because it would make WHs into deathtraps for
> Moths. The Moth has to be able to start getting up to speed immediately after
> coming out of a WH, but if it doesn't have infiniturbo, it can't, it has to wait for
> its battery to charge. Without infiniturbo, a Moth had better hope the far side of
> the WH is clear, and that no enemy chases it through for at least a couple
> seconds, because if any enemy catches it with its battery drained close to a WH,
> it's dead.
In that case, how about simultaneously removing infiniboost, increasing the turbo thrust from 550 N to 600 N, and reducing the spin torque from 19.0 Nm to 18.0 Nm? That would retain the high turbo maximum speed for fast bulk cargo runs, allow it to accelerate fast enough to escape from pirates upon emerging from wormholes, and still keep it from turning fast enough to become a combat ship.
For players who worry about their kill/death ratio (such as myself) and refuse to use the "/explode" command, it already takes about an hour to carry out a trading guild bulk procurement misson of 124 units of XiRite Alloy from Edras to Deneb. Reducing the turbo maximum speed even further would make trading even slower, unless the cargo capacity were increased to 124 cu and the current maximum bulk procurement missions were fixed at that level.
If the turbo maximum speed is to be reduced from 190 m/s to 180 m/s (an idea that I do not agree with), then I propose that the cargo capacity be increased from 120 cu to 124 cu and the current maximum bulk procurement missions be fixed at that level, to be increased no further. Further, all other bulk procurement missions should fit on a Behemoth on a single round-trip run. Otherwise, trading when most other players are not online would become incredibly monotonous.
-- DekuDekuplex Ornitier
> Heh, raising the Moth's turbo drain to 55 would be a much bigger nerf than
> dropping its turbo speed a bit, because it would make WHs into deathtraps for
> Moths. The Moth has to be able to start getting up to speed immediately after
> coming out of a WH, but if it doesn't have infiniturbo, it can't, it has to wait for
> its battery to charge. Without infiniturbo, a Moth had better hope the far side of
> the WH is clear, and that no enemy chases it through for at least a couple
> seconds, because if any enemy catches it with its battery drained close to a WH,
> it's dead.
In that case, how about simultaneously removing infiniboost, increasing the turbo thrust from 550 N to 600 N, and reducing the spin torque from 19.0 Nm to 18.0 Nm? That would retain the high turbo maximum speed for fast bulk cargo runs, allow it to accelerate fast enough to escape from pirates upon emerging from wormholes, and still keep it from turning fast enough to become a combat ship.
For players who worry about their kill/death ratio (such as myself) and refuse to use the "/explode" command, it already takes about an hour to carry out a trading guild bulk procurement misson of 124 units of XiRite Alloy from Edras to Deneb. Reducing the turbo maximum speed even further would make trading even slower, unless the cargo capacity were increased to 124 cu and the current maximum bulk procurement missions were fixed at that level.
If the turbo maximum speed is to be reduced from 190 m/s to 180 m/s (an idea that I do not agree with), then I propose that the cargo capacity be increased from 120 cu to 124 cu and the current maximum bulk procurement missions be fixed at that level, to be increased no further. Further, all other bulk procurement missions should fit on a Behemoth on a single round-trip run. Otherwise, trading when most other players are not online would become incredibly monotonous.
-- DekuDekuplex Ornitier
re beolach : it would just be a little bit more vulnerable, which would be a good thing.
the moth is not vulnerable now because there is nothing to be vulnerable from.
see http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/10767
the moth is not vulnerable now because there is nothing to be vulnerable from.
see http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/10767
I think the argument regarding Strike Force bots is moot and means absolutely nothing. I personally suck at avoiding them, and often get spanked in the ass by one of those dumb Aerna Seekers. So that really has more to do with knowing how they work and how to avoid them. In addition, the AI code for these defense ships are somewhat retarded at the moment. They can be completely unpredictable or random at times. Sometimes I've seen them follow their target 2 jumps behind. Sometimes I've seen them jump AHEAD of the target and kill them right as they warped into the sector. And sometimes I've seen them go beyond their area of jurisdiction and attack the poor player who thought he was safe.
My point is there are tons of problems that are associated with the AI regarding these bots, and therefore should not in any way be used as a benchmark to indicate whether something is easily catchable or not. That's all I'm going to say.
My point is there are tons of problems that are associated with the AI regarding these bots, and therefore should not in any way be used as a benchmark to indicate whether something is easily catchable or not. That's all I'm going to say.
Re: who? me?
> re beolach : it would just be a little bit more vulnerable, which would be a good thing.
>
> the moth is not vulnerable now because there is nothing to be vulnerable from.
>
> see http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/10767
If the reason that the moth is not vulnerable is that "there is nothing to be vulnerable from," then the logical solution, as you have already mentioned in your other thread, "we need more pirates" ( see http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/10767 ), is to have more pirates, not to make routine bulk runs take even more time than they currently take.
It already takes about an hour for a single two-round-trip 124-cu XiRite Alloy bulk procurement trading guild mission from, say, Edras to Deneb (assuming the trader, like me, cares about his/her kill/death ratio and doesn't use the "/explode" command). Reducing the turbo maximum speed from 190 m/s to, say, 180 m/s would require increasing the cargo capacity to 124 cu and fixing the maximum required number of cargo units to transport at that level to compensate.
-- DekuDekuplex Ornitier
> re beolach : it would just be a little bit more vulnerable, which would be a good thing.
>
> the moth is not vulnerable now because there is nothing to be vulnerable from.
>
> see http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/10767
If the reason that the moth is not vulnerable is that "there is nothing to be vulnerable from," then the logical solution, as you have already mentioned in your other thread, "we need more pirates" ( see http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/10767 ), is to have more pirates, not to make routine bulk runs take even more time than they currently take.
It already takes about an hour for a single two-round-trip 124-cu XiRite Alloy bulk procurement trading guild mission from, say, Edras to Deneb (assuming the trader, like me, cares about his/her kill/death ratio and doesn't use the "/explode" command). Reducing the turbo maximum speed from 190 m/s to, say, 180 m/s would require increasing the cargo capacity to 124 cu and fixing the maximum required number of cargo units to transport at that level to compensate.
-- DekuDekuplex Ornitier
What do you people have against infiniturbo? And especially for the Behemoth, it has to have infiniturbo. Without it, anytime a Behemoth comes through a WH with enemies, it will die 9 times out of 10. It won't be able to turbo, because it doesn't have any energy, and without its turbo it is a dead duck.
Why are you so dead set against dropping the turbo speed, Deku? Especially when you're willing to kill its turbo drain, which would have a much larger effect. Dropping the turbo speed won't add significantly to travel times, maybe a couple of minutes on the really long runs. And I think 160 would be better than 180 (although I'd say drop it 10m/s at a time, until it's at a good speed).
> Otherwise, trading when most other players are not online would become incredibly monotonous.
IMO, none of the suggestions you made would make trading when other players aren't on any less monotonous. Faster, yes, but faster != less monotonous. Personally, I'd say it would make it more monotonous. Suggestions to help make trading more interesting is something that has been discussed in some other threads, like these two: http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/10698 & http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/10652
It does NOT take an hour to do a trade mission from Edras to Deneb. It takes maybe 15 minutes (probably less). Er, maybe 30 minutes without /explode (you actually care about your k/d ratio? Wow.).
Why are you so dead set against dropping the turbo speed, Deku? Especially when you're willing to kill its turbo drain, which would have a much larger effect. Dropping the turbo speed won't add significantly to travel times, maybe a couple of minutes on the really long runs. And I think 160 would be better than 180 (although I'd say drop it 10m/s at a time, until it's at a good speed).
> Otherwise, trading when most other players are not online would become incredibly monotonous.
IMO, none of the suggestions you made would make trading when other players aren't on any less monotonous. Faster, yes, but faster != less monotonous. Personally, I'd say it would make it more monotonous. Suggestions to help make trading more interesting is something that has been discussed in some other threads, like these two: http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/10698 & http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/10652
It does NOT take an hour to do a trade mission from Edras to Deneb. It takes maybe 15 minutes (probably less). Er, maybe 30 minutes without /explode (you actually care about your k/d ratio? Wow.).
Re: Beolach
> What do you people have against infiniturbo? And especially for the Behemoth,
> it has to have infiniturbo. Without it, anytime a Behemoth comes through a WH
> with enemies, it will die 9 times out of 10. It won't be able to turbo, because it
> doesn't have any energy, and without its turbo it is a dead duck.
It's not that I have anything against infiniturbo, but rather that I want to find some way not to see the speed reduced. I often get chased by such pirates as Fehdman Kassad and 0. 0, in particular, is extremely nasty, pilots an IBG, and once chased me all the way from one wormhole through a multi-jump track to a station to another wormhole. The only reason he didn't catch me was that I just happened to be piloting a ship just as fast as his at the time.
> It does NOT take an hour to do a trade mission from Edras to Deneb. It takes
> maybe 15 minutes (probably less). Er, maybe 30 minutes without /explode (you
> actually care about your k/d ratio? Wow.).
Really. It has always taken me much longer than 15 minutes for that, especially when I hadn't had my navigation route set prior to taking the mission.
Assume that I need to procure 124 units of XiRite Alloy from Edras B-11 while in Deneb O-3, avoiding ion storms along the way. That's ten jumps. Further, assume that I haven't pre-plotted the course, and want to profit from the trip going there as well, so I want to research which goods are available at Deneb O-3 and not at Edras B-11 and fill up my cargo hold with the most profitable of those goods before going there as well.
First, I need to go to the Vendetta Trade Goods Database at http://vendetta.leechbak.nl/ and look up the goods available at Deneb O-3, but not at Edras B-11, and buy those goods. Then, I need to open TextEdit and jot down the price for my personal trade database. This takes about one minute. Then, I need to plot the course, taking care to avoid ion storms along the way. It takes about two minutes or so to plot such a course. It then takes me about one and a half minutes on average to clear a system, checking for pirates every ten seconds in sector view while turboing. That's 1.5 minutes x 10 jumps = 15 minutes + 3 minutes for the other work = 18 minutes total just to get to Edras. Then I need to dock, sell the goods from Deneb, open TextEdit and note the price for my personal trade database, buy 120 cu of XiRite Alloy, undock, and head back. That's another 1.5 minutes or so.
Then I need to return to Deneb. That's 15 more minutes. So far, 34.5 minutes have elapsed. Then I need to buy more goods there to sell at Edras, switch to a Warthog MkII (since I only need 4 cu for my second trip back), then start heading back to Edras. That's another 2 minutes or so. Then I need to return to Edras. That's another 13 minutes (2 minutes faster, since I'm now piloting a faster ship). That's 49.5 minutes so far. Then I need to do the same procedure as before, this time to purchase the remaining 4 units of XiRite Alloy. Another 1 minute. Then I need to return to Deneb. That's another 13 minutes. That 63.5 minutes = one hour and 3.5 minutes so far.
No matter how fast I type and click, it takes me about an hour for two round trips from Deneb O-3 to Edras B-11 and back in a Behemoth and a Warthog MkII, maximizing profit, taking notes, and avoiding ion storms and pirates along the way.
I have absolutely no idea how you carry out two round trips from Deneb O-3 to Edras B-11 in a Behemoth in "15 minutes," especially without using the nasty "/explode" command, which I never use.
And yes, I do happen to care about my kill/death ratio. I've always cared about the details of my player statistics, ever since I first started playing "Dragon Quest III" in 1989.
-- DekuDekuplex Ornitier
> What do you people have against infiniturbo? And especially for the Behemoth,
> it has to have infiniturbo. Without it, anytime a Behemoth comes through a WH
> with enemies, it will die 9 times out of 10. It won't be able to turbo, because it
> doesn't have any energy, and without its turbo it is a dead duck.
It's not that I have anything against infiniturbo, but rather that I want to find some way not to see the speed reduced. I often get chased by such pirates as Fehdman Kassad and 0. 0, in particular, is extremely nasty, pilots an IBG, and once chased me all the way from one wormhole through a multi-jump track to a station to another wormhole. The only reason he didn't catch me was that I just happened to be piloting a ship just as fast as his at the time.
> It does NOT take an hour to do a trade mission from Edras to Deneb. It takes
> maybe 15 minutes (probably less). Er, maybe 30 minutes without /explode (you
> actually care about your k/d ratio? Wow.).
Really. It has always taken me much longer than 15 minutes for that, especially when I hadn't had my navigation route set prior to taking the mission.
Assume that I need to procure 124 units of XiRite Alloy from Edras B-11 while in Deneb O-3, avoiding ion storms along the way. That's ten jumps. Further, assume that I haven't pre-plotted the course, and want to profit from the trip going there as well, so I want to research which goods are available at Deneb O-3 and not at Edras B-11 and fill up my cargo hold with the most profitable of those goods before going there as well.
First, I need to go to the Vendetta Trade Goods Database at http://vendetta.leechbak.nl/ and look up the goods available at Deneb O-3, but not at Edras B-11, and buy those goods. Then, I need to open TextEdit and jot down the price for my personal trade database. This takes about one minute. Then, I need to plot the course, taking care to avoid ion storms along the way. It takes about two minutes or so to plot such a course. It then takes me about one and a half minutes on average to clear a system, checking for pirates every ten seconds in sector view while turboing. That's 1.5 minutes x 10 jumps = 15 minutes + 3 minutes for the other work = 18 minutes total just to get to Edras. Then I need to dock, sell the goods from Deneb, open TextEdit and note the price for my personal trade database, buy 120 cu of XiRite Alloy, undock, and head back. That's another 1.5 minutes or so.
Then I need to return to Deneb. That's 15 more minutes. So far, 34.5 minutes have elapsed. Then I need to buy more goods there to sell at Edras, switch to a Warthog MkII (since I only need 4 cu for my second trip back), then start heading back to Edras. That's another 2 minutes or so. Then I need to return to Edras. That's another 13 minutes (2 minutes faster, since I'm now piloting a faster ship). That's 49.5 minutes so far. Then I need to do the same procedure as before, this time to purchase the remaining 4 units of XiRite Alloy. Another 1 minute. Then I need to return to Deneb. That's another 13 minutes. That 63.5 minutes = one hour and 3.5 minutes so far.
No matter how fast I type and click, it takes me about an hour for two round trips from Deneb O-3 to Edras B-11 and back in a Behemoth and a Warthog MkII, maximizing profit, taking notes, and avoiding ion storms and pirates along the way.
I have absolutely no idea how you carry out two round trips from Deneb O-3 to Edras B-11 in a Behemoth in "15 minutes," especially without using the nasty "/explode" command, which I never use.
And yes, I do happen to care about my kill/death ratio. I've always cared about the details of my player statistics, ever since I first started playing "Dragon Quest III" in 1989.
-- DekuDekuplex Ornitier
the behemy needs infiniturbo, infact it needs to stay the exaclty as it is now!!!!
Re: who? me?
> the behemy needs infiniturbo, infact it needs to stay the exaclty as it is now!!!!
Agreed!
-- DekuDekuplex Ornitier
> the behemy needs infiniturbo, infact it needs to stay the exaclty as it is now!!!!
Agreed!
-- DekuDekuplex Ornitier
I still disagree w/ you about how long it takes to do a mission between Deneb & Edras, Deku, but I'm not going to bother arguing that, because how long it takes now doesn't really matter. The only thing that would matter is how much additional time it would take if the Moth was slowed down. I think it would not add much more than a few minutes to the time it takes to travel between Edras & Deneb (one way). Which is fine with me.
I'm heading to bed now, but after I wake up I'm willing to time a 12-system trip, turbo tapping in a Moth so my speed stays at or below 150m/s, and then compare it to how long it takes going full turbo in a Moth right now.
I'm heading to bed now, but after I wake up I'm willing to time a 12-system trip, turbo tapping in a Moth so my speed stays at or below 150m/s, and then compare it to how long it takes going full turbo in a Moth right now.
> It's not that I have anything against infiniturbo, but rather
> that I want to find some way not to see the speed reduced. I
> often get chased by such pirates as Fehdman Kassad and 0. 0, in
> particular, is extremely nasty, pilots an IBG, and once chased me
> all the way from one wormhole through a multi-jump track to a
> station to another wormhole. The only reason he didn't catch me
> was that I just happened to be piloting a ship just as fast as
> his at the time.
sigh. I've been hunted by 0 and Project Ragnarok together a few times. I've never been close to dying.
as for how to do the trade routes, if you manually enter navroutes and manually check stuff every time you trade, you might want to think about doing something about just that. also, very often, procurements can be shortened. my personal favorite is 9 to 4 hops.
any trader today loosing a moth to less than two pirates asked for it. I've flown loaded moths against three BLAKs and lived to tell the tale. the moth is so uber its silly.
> that I want to find some way not to see the speed reduced. I
> often get chased by such pirates as Fehdman Kassad and 0. 0, in
> particular, is extremely nasty, pilots an IBG, and once chased me
> all the way from one wormhole through a multi-jump track to a
> station to another wormhole. The only reason he didn't catch me
> was that I just happened to be piloting a ship just as fast as
> his at the time.
sigh. I've been hunted by 0 and Project Ragnarok together a few times. I've never been close to dying.
as for how to do the trade routes, if you manually enter navroutes and manually check stuff every time you trade, you might want to think about doing something about just that. also, very often, procurements can be shortened. my personal favorite is 9 to 4 hops.
any trader today loosing a moth to less than two pirates asked for it. I've flown loaded moths against three BLAKs and lived to tell the tale. the moth is so uber its silly.
Don't know if this really matters, but I took down an Itani Behemoth in Ukari today, using nothing more than a Hornet Convoy Guardian equipped with four Axia Accelerated Positrons. I chased it down easily with this setup (yes, using energy weapons only) and destroyed it across two sectors. Catching up to it and hitting it wasn't the hard part. The hard part was actually following it from sector to sector. As I said before, that's where the problem lies. If you can actually follow a Behemoth from sector to sector, you can easily catch up to and destroy it.
You see, when I killed him in the second sector, it was because his loading time was much slower than mine. This allowed me to punch in the coordinates, follow him, and STILL catch right up to him. Once we were both in there, I easily caught up to him again and eliminated him quite easily. So if some follow target command were ever implemented, the Behemoth would be pirate food quite a lot.
You see, when I killed him in the second sector, it was because his loading time was much slower than mine. This allowed me to punch in the coordinates, follow him, and STILL catch right up to him. Once we were both in there, I easily caught up to him again and eliminated him quite easily. So if some follow target command were ever implemented, the Behemoth would be pirate food quite a lot.
The problem is, Arolte, to be sure of being able to destroy a Behemoth, it has to be done in one sector, not two. Anecdotal evidence that "this one time, I killed a Behemoth by doing such and such" isn't a particularly viable argument. Even if there was a way to automatically follow a ship (something I do think would be good), it's still going to be next to impossible to catch someone who's jumping empty sectors.
So, Moth pilot starts being attacked, starts running to the 3000m mark, and sets a dozen jump points in empty sectors. If he makes it to the 3000m point, he's almost positive he's going to be safe. The only way you're going to be able to catch him, is if you have faster load times in every single sector he jumps to - and empty sectors load very fast, even for our players across the pond.
[edit]
I just timed a 8 system route (Geira Rutilus to Dau). One way I was in an empty Moth, going top speed. That took about 12 minutes (09:49:44 to 10:01:32). Going back, I was full of Organic Solvents (another 12000kg), and kept my turbo speed around 150m/s. That took about 14 minutes (10:02:23 to 10:16:56). So the suggestion to slow down the Behemoth would add probably less than 15 seconds per system to your travel times, Deku. IMO that's not much.
[/edit]
So, Moth pilot starts being attacked, starts running to the 3000m mark, and sets a dozen jump points in empty sectors. If he makes it to the 3000m point, he's almost positive he's going to be safe. The only way you're going to be able to catch him, is if you have faster load times in every single sector he jumps to - and empty sectors load very fast, even for our players across the pond.
[edit]
I just timed a 8 system route (Geira Rutilus to Dau). One way I was in an empty Moth, going top speed. That took about 12 minutes (09:49:44 to 10:01:32). Going back, I was full of Organic Solvents (another 12000kg), and kept my turbo speed around 150m/s. That took about 14 minutes (10:02:23 to 10:16:56). So the suggestion to slow down the Behemoth would add probably less than 15 seconds per system to your travel times, Deku. IMO that's not much.
[/edit]
not to mention that taking an example in which loadingtimes is actually the reason why he got canned in stead of the ship he was flying is not the best way to start a counter.