Forums » Role Playing
why waste my time to help itani if there are none.
nice try to :)
i will stay serco.
post your suggestion or the current grief tactic used:
nice try to :)
i will stay serco.
post your suggestion or the current grief tactic used:
just wanan say :
ganking isn't griefing
kill at station isn't griefing
breaking a duel isn't griefing
losing CtC isn't griefing
...
ganking isn't griefing
kill at station isn't griefing
breaking a duel isn't griefing
losing CtC isn't griefing
...
A kill at a station is grifing. On the others I agree with you. Now chasing some one around where ever they go if they have not hurt you in any way is grifing. (except in CtC)
@Spider: About my earlier post. you're absolutely right about the 1-hit standing issue, i'm an avid objector to that, and I apologize for suggesting it. Griefing is a matter of ethic and sport. there's not really much we can do about it, but those who do it will not be well appreciated in VO's community.
I am begining to come to terms with the SAF. Because of the reputation, they can't be trusted, unless you know the member more personally. Most SAF represent literally the enemy of the Itani. Arrogant, disshonorable, foul mouthed, and bullying. Interested only in dominating the area and breaking down weaker players for benefit of their ego. For me, if you're SAF, you're KOS. If you're an SAF, and an Itani attacks you first, I'd still call that defensive. If you're floating in grey space, and you have "SAF" on your name, you're assumed to be hanging around waiting for an Itani to pass by so you can murder them.
For those of you (you know who you are) that wait around in certain systems ambushing newbies as they pass by; you can expect that more experienced Itani and perhaps UIT will eventually group attack you, we will take pride and have no remorse in gang beating you. VO is a tactical game, and we win by teaming up, So we will. If you have a problem with it, you may want to consider changing your ways and maybe your identity. This is a community of people, and people don't forget the names of the bullies they've been victimized by, many don't ever forgive, and some won't be newbies forever.
I am begining to come to terms with the SAF. Because of the reputation, they can't be trusted, unless you know the member more personally. Most SAF represent literally the enemy of the Itani. Arrogant, disshonorable, foul mouthed, and bullying. Interested only in dominating the area and breaking down weaker players for benefit of their ego. For me, if you're SAF, you're KOS. If you're an SAF, and an Itani attacks you first, I'd still call that defensive. If you're floating in grey space, and you have "SAF" on your name, you're assumed to be hanging around waiting for an Itani to pass by so you can murder them.
For those of you (you know who you are) that wait around in certain systems ambushing newbies as they pass by; you can expect that more experienced Itani and perhaps UIT will eventually group attack you, we will take pride and have no remorse in gang beating you. VO is a tactical game, and we win by teaming up, So we will. If you have a problem with it, you may want to consider changing your ways and maybe your identity. This is a community of people, and people don't forget the names of the bullies they've been victimized by, many don't ever forgive, and some won't be newbies forever.
Attention: Very long reply ... ;)
My first impression about this thread was *oh no, not again* and i didn't want to answer, because it is imho wasted time, but ...
... okay, let me put my hat on as so called Commander of the SAF.
When CTC was brought into game, we were happy to have some action which gives us the chance, to fight as a team. But soon there were more of us than fit into a group with the 8 player limit. This made the communication very hard, channel 11 didn't exist at that time. So the SAF was born.
9 of the first 10 members are what you call vets. Yes, we know each other from the alphatest, like to have a drink at the bar together, fight together or alone, trade or whatever we want to do. But not all SAF members are vets - from 37 members round about 16, the rest carries *only* a beta badge or no tester medal.
Each of us has his/her own priority. We have traders, we have fighters, we have people like me, who do a mix of both. Some of us attack the Itani convoy, some only want to defend our convoy and some don't do any CTC.
--------------------------
Let me take a look back when i started Vendetta in May 2003: There was a small universe with 3 nations. I started as NT, today called UIT. Not, that i liked the colour (i would have prefered blue ... hehe), but a friend showed me the game and told me to start in *his* nation. It didn't last long, i left my safety home called sector 3 and 6 and began to explore. I didn't stay alive very long ... crash ... boom ... "You returned to your homestation. Buy back last ship?" Correct me, if i am wrong, i am not sure, but i think, it was Uncle Dave, Serco Dominion, who killed me for the first time. OMG, i was shocked, i whined a bit in nationchat, but i didn't want to die from boredom in sector 6, so i went out again over and over to die over and over. I had no PVP-skill. So, what to do?
Asp, a teammate tried to learn me how to dodge, which was a bit hard, because we couldn't duel and friendly fire was off as it is today.
Ah, something i forgot ... we had scores and bounties, means for each kill you got, you received some points as bounty and when your bounty was high (from botting i.e.), you were a very interesting aim for the so called pirates - your bounty was added to their score, which let them climb the highscore-ladder ... :)
Okay, after some dry training with Asp and the bots, i decided to try my first PVP in a duel. My bounty was high enough to be interesting for other players, but i didn't want to lose it on a traderun, i wanted to fight a duel and asked UncleDave. It was a quick fight, but it helped me, to lose the *blockade* i had in my mind. After this i searched someone to train me and i asked a player, who was a known pirate and a good fighter with energy weapons - Tradeship1, Serco Dominion. Special greetings if he still reads the board.
It lasted a long while, but after months of training, i was able, to beat him sometimes in our duels.
-----------------------------
I could now write an endless story, but i don't want to make you all fall asleep from reading my Vendetta Vita.
Bottomline of the story, what i try to transmit: You *grow* with your experience. Some players (maybe the younger ones) learn very fast, some (like me) need a long time to stand their man/woman in fights.
Vendetta has always had people, who like to fight. Some of you call them pirates, some call them griefers. The threads about them on the board aren't really new, often combined with the theme "tripleflares valk" (the prefered pirate ship ... hehe) in the past.
[Past, because each nation specific ship was available for each player at their homestations - means a serco could buy a valk or a maud and of course the prom in their homesectors, same for the nt and itani. Later the ships were brought to a blackmarket in the hidden sector 15 (100.000 credits for an empty ship!) and after this to the new sector 18 (hidden too and harder to reach).]
To the new players i only can give this as advice:
Search players who are willing to train you fighting. Since we have the /duel function, you can be trained by a teammate. Do it to yellow or orange, if you don't want to have a lot of death in your charinfo ... :)
Learn to deal with it, that you might die, when you leave the homesectors - sometimes over and over and sometimes over and over from the same player(s).
Join the channels 201 and 202 to see, if there are CTCs announced. If yes, bring your cargo somewhere else, stay out of grey space or try to avoid the CTC route until you read a delivery message. The CTC round always ends Saturnight, which means, that on Friday and Saturday are heavy *wars* on the CTC route - somestimes before the Convoys starts and often after it's over, because the involved players are *miffed* or just want to stay fighting.
If you don't want to die, just because you are at the wrong time in the wrong place, make a great bow around the areas.
And this is a very personal *feeling*: Don't be too bigmouthed, when have reached a level which lets you buy a decend ship/weapon. Never forget that this doesn't mean, you are invincible.
About complaints:
As long as i play Vendetta, there were always people whining and complaining about others, insulting each other ... whatever you want - me included. We all are human with emotions, some more sensible than others. No one of us is a machine or an alien or borg.
But since a couple of weeks all this whining, complaining, insulting got a new *quality* - a bad one imho. Players opening threads about a nation, or threads like this one, about a team of players. Players talking in 100, that they are happy being out of Sercospace, because Serco have dirty closets and so on. I can't and i don't want to repeat all this trashtalk.
I have decided, not to answer anymore in public when there is such a discussion going on, i learned, if no Serco answers, they find another theme sooner or later.
I try to see this under the roleplay aspect, but imo this has nothing to do with it. For me this is a sign, that player are losing or have lost respect to other players.
And, I am not willing to *lower my fighting skill* (sorry, dunno how to say it correct), just because of whining new players. You have to gain fighting skill, i have earned mine very hard with lots of death, throwing the mouse in the corner, logging off when i was not able to calm down - the full program.
Back to SAF: We are souvereign indiviuals (taken from our guild description). Each of us will play this game like s/he wants to play it. And i am _not_ willing to tear rings through the noses of my friends.
Amen.
Thanks a lot if you readed the complete post.
Lin(da)
<so called Commander of the SAF)
My first impression about this thread was *oh no, not again* and i didn't want to answer, because it is imho wasted time, but ...
... okay, let me put my hat on as so called Commander of the SAF.
When CTC was brought into game, we were happy to have some action which gives us the chance, to fight as a team. But soon there were more of us than fit into a group with the 8 player limit. This made the communication very hard, channel 11 didn't exist at that time. So the SAF was born.
9 of the first 10 members are what you call vets. Yes, we know each other from the alphatest, like to have a drink at the bar together, fight together or alone, trade or whatever we want to do. But not all SAF members are vets - from 37 members round about 16, the rest carries *only* a beta badge or no tester medal.
Each of us has his/her own priority. We have traders, we have fighters, we have people like me, who do a mix of both. Some of us attack the Itani convoy, some only want to defend our convoy and some don't do any CTC.
--------------------------
Let me take a look back when i started Vendetta in May 2003: There was a small universe with 3 nations. I started as NT, today called UIT. Not, that i liked the colour (i would have prefered blue ... hehe), but a friend showed me the game and told me to start in *his* nation. It didn't last long, i left my safety home called sector 3 and 6 and began to explore. I didn't stay alive very long ... crash ... boom ... "You returned to your homestation. Buy back last ship?" Correct me, if i am wrong, i am not sure, but i think, it was Uncle Dave, Serco Dominion, who killed me for the first time. OMG, i was shocked, i whined a bit in nationchat, but i didn't want to die from boredom in sector 6, so i went out again over and over to die over and over. I had no PVP-skill. So, what to do?
Asp, a teammate tried to learn me how to dodge, which was a bit hard, because we couldn't duel and friendly fire was off as it is today.
Ah, something i forgot ... we had scores and bounties, means for each kill you got, you received some points as bounty and when your bounty was high (from botting i.e.), you were a very interesting aim for the so called pirates - your bounty was added to their score, which let them climb the highscore-ladder ... :)
Okay, after some dry training with Asp and the bots, i decided to try my first PVP in a duel. My bounty was high enough to be interesting for other players, but i didn't want to lose it on a traderun, i wanted to fight a duel and asked UncleDave. It was a quick fight, but it helped me, to lose the *blockade* i had in my mind. After this i searched someone to train me and i asked a player, who was a known pirate and a good fighter with energy weapons - Tradeship1, Serco Dominion. Special greetings if he still reads the board.
It lasted a long while, but after months of training, i was able, to beat him sometimes in our duels.
-----------------------------
I could now write an endless story, but i don't want to make you all fall asleep from reading my Vendetta Vita.
Bottomline of the story, what i try to transmit: You *grow* with your experience. Some players (maybe the younger ones) learn very fast, some (like me) need a long time to stand their man/woman in fights.
Vendetta has always had people, who like to fight. Some of you call them pirates, some call them griefers. The threads about them on the board aren't really new, often combined with the theme "tripleflares valk" (the prefered pirate ship ... hehe) in the past.
[Past, because each nation specific ship was available for each player at their homestations - means a serco could buy a valk or a maud and of course the prom in their homesectors, same for the nt and itani. Later the ships were brought to a blackmarket in the hidden sector 15 (100.000 credits for an empty ship!) and after this to the new sector 18 (hidden too and harder to reach).]
To the new players i only can give this as advice:
Search players who are willing to train you fighting. Since we have the /duel function, you can be trained by a teammate. Do it to yellow or orange, if you don't want to have a lot of death in your charinfo ... :)
Learn to deal with it, that you might die, when you leave the homesectors - sometimes over and over and sometimes over and over from the same player(s).
Join the channels 201 and 202 to see, if there are CTCs announced. If yes, bring your cargo somewhere else, stay out of grey space or try to avoid the CTC route until you read a delivery message. The CTC round always ends Saturnight, which means, that on Friday and Saturday are heavy *wars* on the CTC route - somestimes before the Convoys starts and often after it's over, because the involved players are *miffed* or just want to stay fighting.
If you don't want to die, just because you are at the wrong time in the wrong place, make a great bow around the areas.
And this is a very personal *feeling*: Don't be too bigmouthed, when have reached a level which lets you buy a decend ship/weapon. Never forget that this doesn't mean, you are invincible.
About complaints:
As long as i play Vendetta, there were always people whining and complaining about others, insulting each other ... whatever you want - me included. We all are human with emotions, some more sensible than others. No one of us is a machine or an alien or borg.
But since a couple of weeks all this whining, complaining, insulting got a new *quality* - a bad one imho. Players opening threads about a nation, or threads like this one, about a team of players. Players talking in 100, that they are happy being out of Sercospace, because Serco have dirty closets and so on. I can't and i don't want to repeat all this trashtalk.
I have decided, not to answer anymore in public when there is such a discussion going on, i learned, if no Serco answers, they find another theme sooner or later.
I try to see this under the roleplay aspect, but imo this has nothing to do with it. For me this is a sign, that player are losing or have lost respect to other players.
And, I am not willing to *lower my fighting skill* (sorry, dunno how to say it correct), just because of whining new players. You have to gain fighting skill, i have earned mine very hard with lots of death, throwing the mouse in the corner, logging off when i was not able to calm down - the full program.
Back to SAF: We are souvereign indiviuals (taken from our guild description). Each of us will play this game like s/he wants to play it. And i am _not_ willing to tear rings through the noses of my friends.
Amen.
Thanks a lot if you readed the complete post.
Lin(da)
<so called Commander of the SAF)
Thanks for the post Lin. I respect the fact that you did that.
I was thinking two things that may make the complaints at the least lessen: 1) If the no fire zones around Bracus Watch and Datles Hold were removed. This way no one would have an excuse for saying "OMG!!! the mean ol sercos/itanis shot me up out side the station." (i'll make a post in the suggestion forums for this)
And 2) What if the more PvPing SAF members formed another group that could be called the Serco Enforcers or some thing like that. They would basically be privateers (read: pirates to all non-Serco) this again so there would be no one who could say "WTF!!! those mean ol SAFer shot me!!!"
Just some ideas, I really don't care what the SAF does, I just don't want it to hurt VO.
Edit: My post on the sugustion forums is here: http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/8800#101289
I was thinking two things that may make the complaints at the least lessen: 1) If the no fire zones around Bracus Watch and Datles Hold were removed. This way no one would have an excuse for saying "OMG!!! the mean ol sercos/itanis shot me up out side the station." (i'll make a post in the suggestion forums for this)
And 2) What if the more PvPing SAF members formed another group that could be called the Serco Enforcers or some thing like that. They would basically be privateers (read: pirates to all non-Serco) this again so there would be no one who could say "WTF!!! those mean ol SAFer shot me!!!"
Just some ideas, I really don't care what the SAF does, I just don't want it to hurt VO.
Edit: My post on the sugustion forums is here: http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/8800#101289
OK Must be time for me to call a member of the SAF into the spotlight.
Spider and I had an organised duel. He lost to my swarm Ragnarok and became one of my first PK's.
Return to the station, sell the Rok and grab my Marauder. Leave station, he's waiting, fires at me, I run, he chases me to another system and kills me.
Second time I leave station in a bus, as the station doesn't have any good ships for me to buy. Spider's waiting and kills me.
Third time, I leave in a bus and run into the asteroids. Spider crashes into a roid and I get away.
In a recent fight, Spider flees at 5% because "His autoaim got turned off"
That example is called griefing. Why did he do it? I think he said it's because I used swarms in a fight.
It's cool to say that by the time they fly out of the system and return I should have left the station but I'm in Australia and have horrible load times. I'd be lucky to get out the station door before they've returned.
Spider and I had an organised duel. He lost to my swarm Ragnarok and became one of my first PK's.
Return to the station, sell the Rok and grab my Marauder. Leave station, he's waiting, fires at me, I run, he chases me to another system and kills me.
Second time I leave station in a bus, as the station doesn't have any good ships for me to buy. Spider's waiting and kills me.
Third time, I leave in a bus and run into the asteroids. Spider crashes into a roid and I get away.
In a recent fight, Spider flees at 5% because "His autoaim got turned off"
That example is called griefing. Why did he do it? I think he said it's because I used swarms in a fight.
It's cool to say that by the time they fly out of the system and return I should have left the station but I'm in Australia and have horrible load times. I'd be lucky to get out the station door before they've returned.
I've been letting this go on just to see how it develops. Past experience tells me that when users start "naming names" the flames begin to really heat up. Please try to avoid the temptation.
Anevitt here. Just read this thread. To start off id like to say very well said Lin. (thats MY commander :P) I am my own player, and I play this game as I please.
Second Id like to say that I am in no way a vet (nowhere near where Spidz and Phoe are :P) so dont put me in that high a catagory.
Third, Id just like to apologise to anyone who feels that i have griefed them in any way in the past. The only time i can really recall one was against Martin.mac.au, so martin please accept my apologies for my past actions as that is usually not my policy when playing vendetta. (although we had a few good duels afterwards :P) Im a trader UIT at heart and i rarely bother any UIT unless they are clearly helping the itani nation in CtC, as i know what it means to be chased across the galaxy while doin trade runs. If anyone else has a complaint against me personally, please accept my sincere apologies.
What other players do in this game is of little concern to me. Yes even if they are "griefing" me, cause i know its all a part of the game. Ive been shot outside stations and had players run from me in a fight and get interference when dueling, interference when trading, interference for doing nothing at all, everything that is called against SAF has happened to me too. But again, its all a part of the game, and when it happens to me i just pick up my pieces and keep on tryin to get better, cause thats the only way to avoid it.
Second Id like to say that I am in no way a vet (nowhere near where Spidz and Phoe are :P) so dont put me in that high a catagory.
Third, Id just like to apologise to anyone who feels that i have griefed them in any way in the past. The only time i can really recall one was against Martin.mac.au, so martin please accept my apologies for my past actions as that is usually not my policy when playing vendetta. (although we had a few good duels afterwards :P) Im a trader UIT at heart and i rarely bother any UIT unless they are clearly helping the itani nation in CtC, as i know what it means to be chased across the galaxy while doin trade runs. If anyone else has a complaint against me personally, please accept my sincere apologies.
What other players do in this game is of little concern to me. Yes even if they are "griefing" me, cause i know its all a part of the game. Ive been shot outside stations and had players run from me in a fight and get interference when dueling, interference when trading, interference for doing nothing at all, everything that is called against SAF has happened to me too. But again, its all a part of the game, and when it happens to me i just pick up my pieces and keep on tryin to get better, cause thats the only way to avoid it.
okay, This turned to names as said, FM, and I'll try to be polite.
That first time, I wanted to see what it was to fight a Marauder, and that was with the reason I set the duel up, and something I thought was incentive in it. When I was met with a seeker-spamming Rag I was annoyed and irritated, and decided to take that Marauder with or against its will. With or against strikeforces.
As for the fight vs. his new Orion Cent rev. C, That was indeed me boosting out, not because I care much for the trusty old marauder, but as I said, my aim got messed up.
no, that was not my autoaim, that was the mouselook-aim that got disabled, I managed to hit ;: and went down fumbling unable to even find my opponent on the screen.
I'll gladly take you on a few more times, its fun and I need the practice. :)
As for your previous comment about bounties, at that point I did have the bounty on me, and I dislike losing such.
That first time, I wanted to see what it was to fight a Marauder, and that was with the reason I set the duel up, and something I thought was incentive in it. When I was met with a seeker-spamming Rag I was annoyed and irritated, and decided to take that Marauder with or against its will. With or against strikeforces.
As for the fight vs. his new Orion Cent rev. C, That was indeed me boosting out, not because I care much for the trusty old marauder, but as I said, my aim got messed up.
no, that was not my autoaim, that was the mouselook-aim that got disabled, I managed to hit ;: and went down fumbling unable to even find my opponent on the screen.
I'll gladly take you on a few more times, its fun and I need the practice. :)
As for your previous comment about bounties, at that point I did have the bounty on me, and I dislike losing such.
FM wrote:
<Past experience tells me that when users start "naming names" the flames begin to really heat up.>
Hmmm, i did some "naming names" in my long reply too, but i hope they will not lead into a flame. I did that to show, how it can be possible to cross the nation frontiers ... :)
@Martin: Players like Spider (count me in too) will get *a bit* angry, if they come to a duel and the opponent uses seekers or swarms. This has imho not much of a duel because one player just will run to avoid the seekers/swarms.
@FM: Maybe it's better to close that thread? Imho it's enough said.
Greetings
Linda (-:
<Past experience tells me that when users start "naming names" the flames begin to really heat up.>
Hmmm, i did some "naming names" in my long reply too, but i hope they will not lead into a flame. I did that to show, how it can be possible to cross the nation frontiers ... :)
@Martin: Players like Spider (count me in too) will get *a bit* angry, if they come to a duel and the opponent uses seekers or swarms. This has imho not much of a duel because one player just will run to avoid the seekers/swarms.
@FM: Maybe it's better to close that thread? Imho it's enough said.
Greetings
Linda (-:
I'll give it a couple more hours so everyone gets it out of their system.
Lin, thank you. Some of us haven't been around enough to know the backdrop of these threads cropping up nown and then. Personally, I highly appreciate that you reply like you have, and I'm honestly impressed that you kept things as calm and collected as you did. I'll be sure to remember that. :-)
I just wish to say one thing in reply to what Anevitt said, that he plays the game as he wishes to play it. This is quite fair and good, but sometimes we all need to remember that our actions lead to reactions. If we wish for Vendetta to be a place people enjoy, each of us is responsible for making that happen.
Vendetta is a game of PvP. Vendetta is game where you die. Let's just try to make it something people are willing to die for.
I just wish to say one thing in reply to what Anevitt said, that he plays the game as he wishes to play it. This is quite fair and good, but sometimes we all need to remember that our actions lead to reactions. If we wish for Vendetta to be a place people enjoy, each of us is responsible for making that happen.
Vendetta is a game of PvP. Vendetta is game where you die. Let's just try to make it something people are willing to die for.
We should probably define what "griefing" is before saying "kill X at station was griefing".
As far as I'm concerned, killing someone at a station isn't griefing. Outright discourteous yes, and in poor style and civility, but not griefing.
Waiting for someone to come out of a station to attack him, now that's griefing. And a display of cowardness and cheap values.
Hunting down someone just to nuke him repeatedly, that's beyond griefing. It's harrassment.
I was killed near a station a few times already. I was ticked off, but didn't felt "cheated" or "griefed". I just thought it was discourteous (and probably linked to my belonging to a specific guild wich was and still is unpopular for many).
I was killed durring a /duel wich was all in good faith by some by stander wich warped in the sector--of all places, in Bractus C-5. I was not amused and really thought it was bad sportsmanship. The killer, though, sent a brief sry note and explained he wasn't aware of a /duel. He was just trigger-happy I guess. A recurring thing for this player I'm told. Should I feel griefed? Nope. I was an enemy in a sector noted for hard encounters.
I've not been harassed thus far. Thanks to all who hate me still.
We should be careful before crying foul.
On the other hand, we should be careful before acting out on our first impulses.
Pilots lives are at stakes, for crying out loud!
As far as I'm concerned, killing someone at a station isn't griefing. Outright discourteous yes, and in poor style and civility, but not griefing.
Waiting for someone to come out of a station to attack him, now that's griefing. And a display of cowardness and cheap values.
Hunting down someone just to nuke him repeatedly, that's beyond griefing. It's harrassment.
I was killed near a station a few times already. I was ticked off, but didn't felt "cheated" or "griefed". I just thought it was discourteous (and probably linked to my belonging to a specific guild wich was and still is unpopular for many).
I was killed durring a /duel wich was all in good faith by some by stander wich warped in the sector--of all places, in Bractus C-5. I was not amused and really thought it was bad sportsmanship. The killer, though, sent a brief sry note and explained he wasn't aware of a /duel. He was just trigger-happy I guess. A recurring thing for this player I'm told. Should I feel griefed? Nope. I was an enemy in a sector noted for hard encounters.
I've not been harassed thus far. Thanks to all who hate me still.
We should be careful before crying foul.
On the other hand, we should be careful before acting out on our first impulses.
Pilots lives are at stakes, for crying out loud!
Actually, mgl_mouser, griefer was something that appeared in the old universe. It was the habit of collectively ( or solo, if the solo player was skilled enough ) finding a player's home station, and locking him or her into it. Killing him at every time he undocks, until he is either broke, or logs.
There have been some organized griefer guilds in the game, and some militas that turned griefers in the name of stopping "pirates".
in todays universe, there simply isn't a possibility to be a griefer in that scale. Why? Because:
1) you get killed outside a station.
2) the strikeforce hunts the offender
3) you undock and boost the other way.
4) you set home in another station.
Some people think that being killed by the same person twice in an evening is "griefing", pfah. Griefing is the consious and continuous act of harassment.
It was used to drive notorious PK's into poverty and forcing them to stop their actions, it was used by others to start wars and as an accusation. Some players did it for a sleight , however there were few that could sustain it if it wasn't a group behind it.
If we should be continuous, yes, I have taken part in consious griefing. I helped lock yooyooma down and into a station, as well as keeping him locked there for quite some time. Including the complete embargo of said station.
I also helped hunt and rally jsteiner into a station more recently.
Those are the two latest incidents of griefing I have been aware of ingame. There was something that came close, with Kepler being repeatedly hunted and killed around Sedina, except that he did not accept the chance to leave, but rather chose to attack, so I wrote that off as a fair fun, although costly on his death-toll.
I have also been on the recieving end of the griefing, spending a lot of time trying to get away from more notorious players, up until I managed to dodge and survive some of the worst bots in the old game with my pesky bus, simply because then I could shake them. I learned, I got help, I learned whom I could ask for help, and when I was just being a bother ;)
So, when people so lightly throw the term "Griefer" around, I have this itch to show them how it feels to be ran down by a guild of players for most of a week, having fourteen million credits burn to dust by the ships, and being locked inside a mined station for any point of the game. THAT, is griefing.
What I see complained about here might feel unfair, but heck, its not griefing.
There have been some organized griefer guilds in the game, and some militas that turned griefers in the name of stopping "pirates".
in todays universe, there simply isn't a possibility to be a griefer in that scale. Why? Because:
1) you get killed outside a station.
2) the strikeforce hunts the offender
3) you undock and boost the other way.
4) you set home in another station.
Some people think that being killed by the same person twice in an evening is "griefing", pfah. Griefing is the consious and continuous act of harassment.
It was used to drive notorious PK's into poverty and forcing them to stop their actions, it was used by others to start wars and as an accusation. Some players did it for a sleight , however there were few that could sustain it if it wasn't a group behind it.
If we should be continuous, yes, I have taken part in consious griefing. I helped lock yooyooma down and into a station, as well as keeping him locked there for quite some time. Including the complete embargo of said station.
I also helped hunt and rally jsteiner into a station more recently.
Those are the two latest incidents of griefing I have been aware of ingame. There was something that came close, with Kepler being repeatedly hunted and killed around Sedina, except that he did not accept the chance to leave, but rather chose to attack, so I wrote that off as a fair fun, although costly on his death-toll.
I have also been on the recieving end of the griefing, spending a lot of time trying to get away from more notorious players, up until I managed to dodge and survive some of the worst bots in the old game with my pesky bus, simply because then I could shake them. I learned, I got help, I learned whom I could ask for help, and when I was just being a bother ;)
So, when people so lightly throw the term "Griefer" around, I have this itch to show them how it feels to be ran down by a guild of players for most of a week, having fourteen million credits burn to dust by the ships, and being locked inside a mined station for any point of the game. THAT, is griefing.
What I see complained about here might feel unfair, but heck, its not griefing.
While it may have been fine to have organised griefer guilds and groups in the beta, any form of griefing in the game now, where people are paying to play, is unacceptable.
Anevitt, don't worry about apologising, that wasn't griefing, just surprising. I'm normally ready for a fight, you just need to ask.
Spider. I apologise for naming you in this thread. However I'm going to leave my points there. It was an organised duel and you could see before the fight what I was flying. You didn't complain before the fight so it's unreasonable to complain after.
If you had a bounty on your head, why on earth did you pick a fight with some guy in a Centurion. Don't fight if you aren't prepared to lose.
Having said that, I don't hold grudges and I am not going to try and disrupt your game play. I look forward to fighting you in the future.
Edit: My first post wasn't complaining of griefing. It was just to tell some stories from my gameplay. Only one of those events I'd have called griefing.
Anevitt, don't worry about apologising, that wasn't griefing, just surprising. I'm normally ready for a fight, you just need to ask.
Spider. I apologise for naming you in this thread. However I'm going to leave my points there. It was an organised duel and you could see before the fight what I was flying. You didn't complain before the fight so it's unreasonable to complain after.
If you had a bounty on your head, why on earth did you pick a fight with some guy in a Centurion. Don't fight if you aren't prepared to lose.
Having said that, I don't hold grudges and I am not going to try and disrupt your game play. I look forward to fighting you in the future.
Edit: My first post wasn't complaining of griefing. It was just to tell some stories from my gameplay. Only one of those events I'd have called griefing.
Since I think this string will be closed in a few moments, I'd like to end it on a more positive note. This response is in no way directed toward the SAF, but more to all players in general.
After reading the many, many replies to my original letter, I have realized many things. First, though the SAF in name may be infamous, your commander sure is a respectable player (Great post Lin) Second, thank you Anevitt for that sincere apology. And third an overall, I'll just reiderate the point many of us have been trying to make.
In game, we take on a personality. Whether we're die-hard roleplayers or just casual players who play to burn a little time while having fun, we all have a personality ingame. That personality can get a little out of hand sometimes, with SAF "griefings" and Itani "complaining" etc. But as I am reading these various posts, I realize that even on the boards, although consiously we may be taking sides or nearing flaming, we're really all just players in a game. And we all are just out here, in the end, to have fun.
If you get your kick out of trading, go ahead and trade! If you've got the knack for CtC, kill some transports! If you like pirating, pirate your brains out! But all I was originally asking was not to make the in-game experience for other players less enjoyable. I'm not saying "Don't kill me because it ruins my time," just keep in mind that the person on the other end of your string of chaos swarms is playing this game for the same reason you are.
Back to the golden rule, don't let your killing spree get out of hand. And if you grief, expect to be griefed in return. If you were a n00b in a free bus, would you like to get chased down and killed? However, if you find joy in rampages, eat your heart out. But if you believe in honor, stay honorable to the end.
I know that this game is just a game, but what are games but life lessons. Monopoly? Money management. Scrabble? English skills??? Anyway, if you stick to your morales in-game, you'll be more respected out of game.
If I were to meet an SAF member or any player for that matter in a coffee shop or on the street, I know I would be able to talk to them unknowing that they were my in-game enemy. As a community of players, let's adopt that ideal. Let's drop grudges, *personal Vendettas*, and get rid of our /ignore lists. Lets just conduct ourselved in-game as we would like others to conduct themselves. No more stupid taunts, griefing, or picking on other players. Let's just play.
The Itani and Serco will remain enemies. The conflicts will still rage. But at least we'll all be happier. And the bottom line is: we'll all have more fun.
Fight away!
-Tboyz007
After reading the many, many replies to my original letter, I have realized many things. First, though the SAF in name may be infamous, your commander sure is a respectable player (Great post Lin) Second, thank you Anevitt for that sincere apology. And third an overall, I'll just reiderate the point many of us have been trying to make.
In game, we take on a personality. Whether we're die-hard roleplayers or just casual players who play to burn a little time while having fun, we all have a personality ingame. That personality can get a little out of hand sometimes, with SAF "griefings" and Itani "complaining" etc. But as I am reading these various posts, I realize that even on the boards, although consiously we may be taking sides or nearing flaming, we're really all just players in a game. And we all are just out here, in the end, to have fun.
If you get your kick out of trading, go ahead and trade! If you've got the knack for CtC, kill some transports! If you like pirating, pirate your brains out! But all I was originally asking was not to make the in-game experience for other players less enjoyable. I'm not saying "Don't kill me because it ruins my time," just keep in mind that the person on the other end of your string of chaos swarms is playing this game for the same reason you are.
Back to the golden rule, don't let your killing spree get out of hand. And if you grief, expect to be griefed in return. If you were a n00b in a free bus, would you like to get chased down and killed? However, if you find joy in rampages, eat your heart out. But if you believe in honor, stay honorable to the end.
I know that this game is just a game, but what are games but life lessons. Monopoly? Money management. Scrabble? English skills??? Anyway, if you stick to your morales in-game, you'll be more respected out of game.
If I were to meet an SAF member or any player for that matter in a coffee shop or on the street, I know I would be able to talk to them unknowing that they were my in-game enemy. As a community of players, let's adopt that ideal. Let's drop grudges, *personal Vendettas*, and get rid of our /ignore lists. Lets just conduct ourselved in-game as we would like others to conduct themselves. No more stupid taunts, griefing, or picking on other players. Let's just play.
The Itani and Serco will remain enemies. The conflicts will still rage. But at least we'll all be happier. And the bottom line is: we'll all have more fun.
Fight away!
-Tboyz007
Great Post Tboyz.
I myself have learned to play the game, I was however not counselled by any of the big guns and learned anything (mostly my own patented dodge) all by myself. I have died gazillion times and always by the hands of certain so called pirates. Even when little old me had no cargo at all. This in effect was the first and is the only reason why you see me object to piracy(although for good measure you could better call them pk-ers) in practically all versions of the different threads. This howeve rdidn't take me 1 month like in the case of lin, but it took me 4 - 5 months before I was able to have some 'fun'. At that time there was however a small number of people that used the unhostile word to transmit exactly that they were not hostile. And naturally 80% of the population abided on it. There was however the case of the remaining 20% which during the times after the beta have risen to 50%+. These people were nothing except annoying little xxxxx that considered the game fun if they could force other people into fighting when they didn't want to or...
Now to go back a little bit, once I noticed that my learningperiod was over I swore an oath to always oppose these 20% as indicated above. Which I have always done. Not to mention that to get this result I sacrificed a lot of my free/spare time to learn newbies the basics of the game and to show them who the asses in the game were (you know who you are). Just to make sure that these precious few newbies would not be turned away by the fraggrant griefing, Spider even 1 kill to an innocent person(meaning not having done any offensive acts lke griefing themselves) not willing to fight is in my eyes a crime and part of the griefingdefinition, your example was just an extreme example of griefing). Especvially since in my 5 months of getting used to the game and building up a social atmosphere and some noob experience (yes after 2+ years of vendetta I still consider myself a noob), I have seen every day 10 newbies enter the game and the next week nobody stayed or checked in again even. It was depressing, leading up eventually into the oath as described above.
After a couple of weeks of helping newbies, I noticed that it did have some effect and that pleased me greatly. Couple months later one small problem surfaced, namely some of my former students turned to a darker side, a side which I tried to stop with my teachings. And even got learned new tactics on top of my original teachings by these people I tried to combat (later called pk-freaks). I contineoud on a bit longer and saw some of my students sink farther and farther away into the evil that I tried to combat. Seeing that my teachings seemed to be the perfect base for pirating behaviour, I decided to stop immediately with any of my counselling. And decided that maybe the best way to ensure people to not go a certain way or at least make the chance a whole lot easier. Was to ensure that these people got the same treatment as that I got in the beginning. Namely getting griefed on every traderoute just because you happen to pass by them. It however pained me to see so many people getting griefed, and the effect it had on the game. You saw valkjocks flaring up, then promjocks, then marauderjocks and fun started to go away, it started to become nothing but namecalling and general he who pisses farthest wins contests.... At that time I decided to stop playing (and did so for a long time), hopped on a couple months later and saw the degrading spirit of the game with the 50+% jerks and some straggling vets trying to save some of the goodmanneredness of the old days. I am sure most of the so called vets remember the names of these guys, I sure know who they are.
I then came back, saw a pirate growing a conscience which oppened up myself to hopefully a new start, this was however in vain since in the end it all became a pissingcontest. I then decided to only play sparingly when I was in need of some trading to bore me up. And as time progressed the game changed, and changed some more always in favour of the person willing to push 'fighting' upon another. There was no chance to just have some fun with your friends and fly a bit around without one way or another getting shot somewhere and losing a mission or some cargo or...
Then came the time for payment, and I decided that the game in it present form was not worth to spend 10euro on, even with all my previous experiences. The only thing worth my 10euro were the devs and their vision. But I decided to hold of on that since I had to go to france anyway, and seeing as a lot of the content lacked that I deemed fun and acted more like a job in stead of being fun(I love doing missions that actually show some content, I'm an rpg freak and I have my moments that I am up for some pvp, although minimal). And as soon as this exactly is in, then I will start and pay for the game just as a way to keep the devs supported, but not before I get a little bit fun out of it. And the game is actually worth to be called an RPG. And hopped on from time to time on a trial account, just to see if it was anywhere close to the point of paying.
Now to come back to my point, you can't combat griefing since the only in game effective way of combatting it by griefing yourselve. See some of spiders example. And this in itself is something I do not condone, it is and stays griefing. The only way to ensure them not messing it up is by banning them from the game or giving them the 3 strokes is out option(like in baseball). Not to mention that most of the griefers are in fact mere counterstrike kiddies that like to say words like I rule your boxorz, or it are vets that got bored of the game and think they can afford to do all they want just because they are vets. And that think of newbies as people beneath them since they don't have any skills... Let me tell you one thing, some of these so called newbies are far more skilled then any of us vets. Since at least these newbies still know what is good and what is wrong. And time has affected some of these senses in our vets. You know who you are.
I always presumed that I went into the game as a newbie and that I ended the game as a newbie, meaning that no matter how long I played I will also die even if by chance I had pressed a wrong button or... I always considered staying and sticking to the fight and being an overal nice person more important then any of the so called skill that people think you build up. Since in my eyes, I have never been skilled, just lucky.
cheers
Now to go back a little bit, once I noticed that my learningperiod was over I swore an oath to always oppose these 20% as indicated above. Which I have always done. Not to mention that to get this result I sacrificed a lot of my free/spare time to learn newbies the basics of the game and to show them who the asses in the game were (you know who you are). Just to make sure that these precious few newbies would not be turned away by the fraggrant griefing, Spider even 1 kill to an innocent person(meaning not having done any offensive acts lke griefing themselves) not willing to fight is in my eyes a crime and part of the griefingdefinition, your example was just an extreme example of griefing). Especvially since in my 5 months of getting used to the game and building up a social atmosphere and some noob experience (yes after 2+ years of vendetta I still consider myself a noob), I have seen every day 10 newbies enter the game and the next week nobody stayed or checked in again even. It was depressing, leading up eventually into the oath as described above.
After a couple of weeks of helping newbies, I noticed that it did have some effect and that pleased me greatly. Couple months later one small problem surfaced, namely some of my former students turned to a darker side, a side which I tried to stop with my teachings. And even got learned new tactics on top of my original teachings by these people I tried to combat (later called pk-freaks). I contineoud on a bit longer and saw some of my students sink farther and farther away into the evil that I tried to combat. Seeing that my teachings seemed to be the perfect base for pirating behaviour, I decided to stop immediately with any of my counselling. And decided that maybe the best way to ensure people to not go a certain way or at least make the chance a whole lot easier. Was to ensure that these people got the same treatment as that I got in the beginning. Namely getting griefed on every traderoute just because you happen to pass by them. It however pained me to see so many people getting griefed, and the effect it had on the game. You saw valkjocks flaring up, then promjocks, then marauderjocks and fun started to go away, it started to become nothing but namecalling and general he who pisses farthest wins contests.... At that time I decided to stop playing (and did so for a long time), hopped on a couple months later and saw the degrading spirit of the game with the 50+% jerks and some straggling vets trying to save some of the goodmanneredness of the old days. I am sure most of the so called vets remember the names of these guys, I sure know who they are.
I then came back, saw a pirate growing a conscience which oppened up myself to hopefully a new start, this was however in vain since in the end it all became a pissingcontest. I then decided to only play sparingly when I was in need of some trading to bore me up. And as time progressed the game changed, and changed some more always in favour of the person willing to push 'fighting' upon another. There was no chance to just have some fun with your friends and fly a bit around without one way or another getting shot somewhere and losing a mission or some cargo or...
Then came the time for payment, and I decided that the game in it present form was not worth to spend 10euro on, even with all my previous experiences. The only thing worth my 10euro were the devs and their vision. But I decided to hold of on that since I had to go to france anyway, and seeing as a lot of the content lacked that I deemed fun and acted more like a job in stead of being fun(I love doing missions that actually show some content, I'm an rpg freak and I have my moments that I am up for some pvp, although minimal). And as soon as this exactly is in, then I will start and pay for the game just as a way to keep the devs supported, but not before I get a little bit fun out of it. And the game is actually worth to be called an RPG. And hopped on from time to time on a trial account, just to see if it was anywhere close to the point of paying.
Now to come back to my point, you can't combat griefing since the only in game effective way of combatting it by griefing yourselve. See some of spiders example. And this in itself is something I do not condone, it is and stays griefing. The only way to ensure them not messing it up is by banning them from the game or giving them the 3 strokes is out option(like in baseball). Not to mention that most of the griefers are in fact mere counterstrike kiddies that like to say words like I rule your boxorz, or it are vets that got bored of the game and think they can afford to do all they want just because they are vets. And that think of newbies as people beneath them since they don't have any skills... Let me tell you one thing, some of these so called newbies are far more skilled then any of us vets. Since at least these newbies still know what is good and what is wrong. And time has affected some of these senses in our vets. You know who you are.
I always presumed that I went into the game as a newbie and that I ended the game as a newbie, meaning that no matter how long I played I will also die even if by chance I had pressed a wrong button or... I always considered staying and sticking to the fight and being an overal nice person more important then any of the so called skill that people think you build up. Since in my eyes, I have never been skilled, just lucky.
cheers
Thanks Rene for a wonderful closing statement.
Kill griefers with kindness. Players will respect that much more than killing skill.
[locked]
Kill griefers with kindness. Players will respect that much more than killing skill.
[locked]