Wow, looks like someone placed WAY too much faith in 'ol Borby. Not so good.

I may just have a stroke right now....

You all should thank yourselves.

All this scheming makes ITAN a much more interesting guild than, say, SCAR. It's almost like a living thing.

Oh yeah, I can't WAIT to tender my application to join the VO equivalent of "Days of Our Lives." Where can I turn in this application?

~D.
"Nigel"

Soon, you will have to submit your application to JB.

On the other hand, you can instead submit your application to the Carebears guild, where everyone wear blue hats, drink juice, and sing "Mary has a little lamb" all day.

softy2, that one point of view wich i dont share.

the downside of all this crap is that it ruins game play for a lot of us and puts a lot of distrust in the guild.

borb said he did that to remove smittens from power and make itan a stronger guild. who tf does he think he is to mingle with internal guild structure? and all this whole shit accomplished was to further destabilise the largest itani guild. so much for his dream of competition and a strong opponent guild.

Nigel, you want to join Itan?

I am sorry you feel that way, uc. I was hoping everyone is having a little bit of fun.

Slime;

Not really after watching this drama. I'm not sure what is suposed to be in character and what isn't. I prefer a sharply delineated margin between the fantasy world I live in and the fantasy world I play online.

What I want is my guild back. We accidentally got disbanded on Friday and the devs haven't gotten around to putting things right yet.

~D.
"Nigel"

The problem upper case isn't Borb. Smittens and your actions started this. Borb didn't make you do anything. He didn't even say he had any information, you guys went to him to try and find something to use against me. Just because I privately (yes privately) questioned the guild leader ship.

At least I was genuinely trying to help the guild. You guys were only trying to hold on to your power. I don't want to be in a guild where corruption and intimidation rule the day. (And "it was because of rp" is the excuse for almoist every act) I personally don't care who runs the ITAN guild as long as they can be trusted. And I hope the current members of ITAN know I have no ill will toward them. If you trust and respect your guild leadership, more power to you.

That being said I plan to form my own guild or maybe join another one. If i do start a guild, there will be a few major changes from the way ITAN is run. It will be a true democracy with RULES that are adopted before the guild officially forms. All non-psychotic and non-corrupt Itanis are welcome to apply. The only thing I require is that you believe in yourself and your nation and are not afraid to stand up for what you believe in.

And unlike some guild the first commander won't nessasaraly be be me. All prospective guild members are free to run for and vote on the Commanders position along with the other leadership positions.

Leadership positions are not, and should never be, an entitlement, they are just added responsibility…

JB

you're talking out of your hat jb. i'm not holding on to any power whatsoever. i was elected in place by the guild. not myself. and i voluntarily left the lt post because we / i had enough crud to deal with than to respond to your accusations of vote tampering. that, btw, is an issue that's been resolved. ask harpo for details if you want.

edit:
oh, and if you do start your own guild, good luck with it. i'm sincere.

Thanks uc i did beleve you are sincere. After all this stuff, most of it i wasn't even involved with, i don't think i could ever fit back into ITAN. My re joining would just polorize the guild. Our funumental disagreement on how a guild should be run will always cause a problem. I'm just glad its finaly come out that i did NOTHING wrong except question the leadership. After thinking about it for a while maybe smittens is right. He wants to run the guild the way he wants to. We will never agree on the rules and morals i think are right. My starting another guild would at least but the strain of that situation behind me. And give people a choose.

JB

HEY JB ... LOL by >>pirvately, YES privately, questioning the ITAN leadership<< you mean on the RP boards, right ? LOL

Hmm... I do believe in myself and my guild, which is why I am standing up against JB !

Yay, I'll be able to make JB 's guild. ! Yeah , baby, yeah....shagadelic.

LoL... I like his posts.....so where did it come out you did NOTHING wrong ? That fact that you weren't let back in the guild is from before borb's emails. And has nothing to do with any information from borb. It has to do with your behaviour towards the leadership. Which was full of unfounded accusations and which you have your self agreed to, was wrong. That is the main reason. The whole borb thing, meh. Icing on the cake.

Oh, and you are not "rejoining" ITAN at the moment, because no one is "reinviting" you.

From genotype:
"HEY JB ... LOL by >>privately, YES privately, questioning the ITAN leadership<< you mean on the RP boards, right ? LOL"

I posted privately to the Itan only site with my disagreements with the leadership. It wasn't even on the public part. Since my posts were delete from the site anyway it shouldn't have cause such a mess. The mess didn't get here until I was banned from the ITAN site. And that was only after the “alleged” email came out.

You can disagree but if you don't let people, anyone, speak their mind what you have is a dictatorship pure and simple, not a democracy and not how I think a guild should be run.

From genotype:
"Which was full of unfounded accusations and which you have your self agreed to, was wrong."

I only admitted that the way I made the allegations were wrong. I do not think they were unfounded and I think someone should have questioned his actions long before I did.

Even with my limited access to ITAN's affairs I do know that the guild is split. Everyone doesn't think what Smittens did was right. But think back to the moment this all started (it does seem so long ago and it’s been less then 2 weeks).

-- Smittens did expel Lebermac from the guild without cause.
-- Smittens did seek information to try and discredit me.
-- Smittens has used guild money for his own purposes. And at least part of that money was partly mine. (Indirectly at least through IDF).
-- And yes I did charge him with vote tampering. If he is supposed to be the commander the buck stops there, with him. He might not have known about but it was still his responsibility.

He was elected not appointed. Smittens is not god. You might not think those actions should questioned but I do. And I think everyone should have a right to question if they choose to. And I also understand that not everyone agrees that my questioning his authority was right. I don't regret questioning his actions but I could have done it in a better way.

From genotype:
"Oh, and you are not "rejoining" ITAN at the moment, because no one is "reinviting" you."

I know I wasn't invited back yet. But the only thing I did do was leave voluntarily and question Smittens in a PRIVATE forum. I do know I at least tied the vote, on my re admittance, in the council. I never asked or tried to find out how the general vote went. So I’m not trying to get back in, maybe that will allow things to settle down some.

If I never left or made the allegations after I was officially re-invited to the guild would it have mattered?

JB

JB....fact is the whole thing is NOT private, cause it made it out here into the RP forums.
Why did it come out here ? Because you put it here.
Why where you banned ? Infact we WERE NOT planning to ban you at all. ITAN MOLE was banned....(his IP RANGE was banned) Now, too bad that that means JB is banned, too. Since you share the same IP, cause ITAN mole is you. Tough luck.

Now....concerning you admitting to make false accusations.....do you want me to post our chat logs ? I at least have the decency to ask you before I post PRIVATE communications out here. So do you ?

The ONLY matter thing smittens did, that was out of the ordinary is expel Leber. Now I think this is a matter between LeberMac and Smittens and quite frankly none of our collective business. As far as I can tell Leber has not tried to get back into ITAN and so why are we discussing it ?

All this guild money / tampered vote thing is completely out of context exaggerated and only mentioned to cause trouble and to make you appear righteous, since it sounds good to say such things. They are however not true. What smittens does with his own money (credits) is his own business. AS far as I can tell our guild bank hasn't suffered much at all. SO, it is pointless discussing it.

I can say this. If you have a problem with SMITTENS talk to him. But just going out into the world and trying to get people involved that have no idea what is going on is just plain malicious, and weak.

I told you what I thought of you in a private chat in VO ....and would keep it private. I don't need to make up wild stories about you , so that other people will have the same opinion about you as I have. That a complete waste of time and energy.

Now...here is the thing with speaking your mind. Whe certainly let our guildmembers speak their minds and post whatever they want. Period. That dictatorship accusation again is completely unfounded. Poor you. Your posts were deleted. Well of course. You were not a guildmember at the time you posted your coup d'état idea on the ITAN boards. Well, what do you expect. If I go to the SCAR forums and post something like : Let's vote to remove Nautargos or any other of the SCAR officers out of their position. What do you think would happen ? -They would be well within their rights to laugh at me , ridicule me, possible send a conny on my ass and oh yeah ... delete my poll.

sarahane, think it's safe to say discussion is closed and we can NINNY-LOCK this thread.***

***any use of capitals here is incidental to a copy-paste operation

I agree i'm through