Genotype: When i was talking to you i was sincere. Everything i said i stand by at the time of me writting it. You are welcome to email me and i will give you the proof you want. The "email is fake" I never wrote it and no matter what Borb or Smittens or Uc do they can not prove it. I never wanted to be Commander or Lt if you look back i didn't run for eather of those positions. The only ill will i have is agaist those who try and drag my good name through the mud with all thier muck. I still respect you and i hope you wait for real evidence to be seen before you brand me a traitor.

Smittens: Borb is playing you like the fool you are. I will also send you the proof you need to know the "email" are fake. I truely have no ill will toward you and in other circumstances i think we could be friends. I do think you were the wrong perosn to lead us. I think you are a want a be dictator who does what ever he can to get people to follow you.

This comes down to the integraty of the people involved. Who do you trust and who do you belive. I will offer the proof i have to those i trust. It is not for the public though.

Oh, great. Now they know I can trace IP addresses! Now I'll NEVER get Borb to post anything!

Idiots. No idea of operational security. No idea of counterintelligence. Don't any of you play POKER?

ooc: hmm let me try something

You know, this is none of my business, but since it's posted here in this forum where it probably shouldn't be (since it's not role playing and it's purely internal) I think perhaps an external opinion might proffer some insight.

Let's see if I understand the facts.

1) Jes seems bent because Lebermac got the boot.
2) Jes left [Itan] out of protest for Lebermac's booting.
3) Jes then decided that he wanted back into the guild.
4) Something about some polls.

Here's the way it looks to a complete outsider: Lebermac seems fine with the decision. When I made the mistake of thinking that the [Itan] website was a message board for the Itani nation and tried to join, Lebermac was quick to point me in the right direction and get me talking to the right people. In fact, I wasn't even aware that he left the guild under anything other than positive circumstances.

While I agree completely with Jes's desire to defend a friend, and have personally been hospitalized for doing so in real life in rather dangerous situations, the only person that really needs to make the decision about defending Lebermac is Lebermac. If he's cool with the guild's actions, it sort of cuts Jes's legs out from under him.

In reading those posted logs I noted several things. First off, every single person mentioned in them is someone I consider a friend in the game, so I'm trying to be completely impartial and respectful to both sides. Second, no one involved has the slightest idea how democracy or a chain of command actually works, so I'd like to provide a brief primer on both.

DEMOCRACY: This is a state where a group of people cast votes to determine the course of action of the body politic. Lately, thanks to Al Gore's whining after the 2000 American Presidential election led to seven recounts (all of which he lost, by the way, once you count the absentee ballots he tried to block by court order because they were from the largely conservative military), the system of democracy has been perverted to mean FIRST we're going to have a vote, and then if I don't get my way I'm going to bitch and cry about it until I do. Hell, even the Mexican presidential elections are going through that right now. (and it's just as childish and asinine now as it was in 2000)

Chain of Command: Being in the military, I understand the CoC and the TO better than most people do. This does not mean, as many critics of the military (who know nothing about it, but criticize anyway) try to state, that my individual creativity, initiative, or expression is stifled. It means, in point of fact, that my commander is in charge, and my responsibility is to follow his orders. Period. Under certain circumstances I can refuse, but I had damn well better have a good reason.

Binding these concepts together, in this situation we have an elected commander who apparently used the authority vested in him by the election to remove someone from the guild he commands. That is not the "right" of the guild commander, it is, in fact, his RESPONSIBILITY.

Now, the Associated Press loves to grab five people on the street in downtown Manhattan and use them to statistically reference the entire nation, which is why Republicans have low poll numbers, and yet keep winning elections, and it's acceptable in any free exchange to criticize your leadership, however for the purposes of what we will laughing refer to as reality, this whole thing seems WAY out of bounds.

First, it's none of our damn business what's going on internally to [Itan]. Whoever brought it into the public light acted irresponsibly and unprofessionally. Second, an elected guild commander has authority over all guild policies until a) Removed by standard election, or b) Removed by special election. How each guild determines where and when they'll vote in a new commander is up to them, but no one can expect a commander to get a damn thing done if he's constantly in danger of being voted out of office every time he makes a decision even remotely controversial.

Third, most message boards have a terms of service that explicitly states that emails or other threads are not to be cross posted. Borb, I don't think that Guild Software has that in their TOS, but I wouldn't make a habit of posting screenshots of emails in message boards. The board I moderate has a TOS rule against it, and you can lose the board if you allow it to be violated. (That's on Delphiforums, however.) Just FYI.

Lastly, I think this is a little silly. As much as we love VO, it's a game, folks. It's an alternative to reality. It should not cross over into your real life like this, and your real life shouldn't cross over into the game. If bad feelings are developing, then people are taking things WAAAAAAAAAY too seriously. Go out, meet a girl or two, and stay away from the computer for four solid hours once in a while.

Think of this as words of wisdom from a guy without pants. You're all good guys, and you're all my friends. I'd like to think that if any of us met in real life we'd be able to kick back and have a suds up together without a moment's thought. Don't let things that happen in the game bother you outside it, and try not to take outside things into the game.

All right. I am done with this soapbox if anyone needs it. I hope no one will be offended by anything I've said here, but I've said it anyway.

~D.
"Nigel"

Just to point out one thing, Nigel: the USA isn't a democracy.

Just to point out another thing, Nigel: I own & operate the webserver that coalitionofitan.org runs on and I don't care about cross-posting or hot linking.

Oh...
can we start calling you "Coach"?

and...
Is there any recent thread in this VO-forum in which you haven't posted?

and...
Borby check yer email.

Slime;

I am SOOO glad you said that. You're absolutely correct. The United States is a REPUBLIC, hence the wailing from the leftists that are stupid enough to cry out "my vote doesn't count!" because they can't be bothered to educate themselves outside of the latest Michael Moore flick on how the Electoral College actually works.

~D.
"Nigel"

Actually, my professional name is Derek A. "Coach" Wade. I even just published a book on coaching football under that name ( [ http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail~bookid~34954.aspx ] ).

I had a slow day at work. I just finished a major project, and didn't feel like starting anything on a Friday afternoon, so I went a little berserk here.

~D.
"Nigel"

My face was tinted blue in the glow of all the computer projectors around me as I pressed the reply button under Lebermac's communiqué. Every one wanted to talk with me it seemed. Leaning back in my chair I could not help but laugh at the insanity of it all.

Where does RP end and reality begin in all this?

Nigel the Indecently Seperated From Reality

I turned on my computer and checked the Coalition of Itan - [Itan] guild status page and noticed a significant change. upper case wasn't listed as Lt anymore.

"Hmmm", I mutter to myself, “I hope that wasn't because of anything i might have done"

"Beep, Beep", the computer screeched, "You have new urgent mail".

“Damn, I never have any quiet time to myself,” I mutter.

I open it up and read the email.

“Very interesting,” I think to myself”

While I’m here I might as well check the ITAN message board.

“An Error Has Occurred! Sorry Jestatis Bess, you are banned from using this forum! Banned by request of Guild leadership.” Pops up on my screen.

I guess I need to randomize my location and try again with one of my other usernames...

ooc; i left the lt position voluntarily because a council member was questioning leeb's manipulation of the lt election, post poll end, for his rp departure as lt following the mogul avalon thing. you caused enough crap. i didn't need to have to deal with that one too.
edit: on july 5th

Hell, with everything being aired here, do you guys really NEED the [ITAN] boards? They seem redundant.

(Leber: I no longer have access even to the guest areas. The only way i can get in is to change my ip. which is not that hard. so yes they need the boards to talk about and plot behind my back :)

Yeah your entire host IP access range is blocked. If you move to another state and get a new guest account you might be able to get in. Maybe anonymizer.com might help you...

I'm just the messenger here. Not my decision, anyway.

Yea shape! You and your black lance stroking cronies can go bugger a duck or something!

You show'em naked nigel!

Edit: Come to think of it, don't bugger a duck. That's cruel.

Holy crap! I think I'm gonna have to copy this all down and keep it for the record books! That has got to be the longest personal (and more than slightly innacurate) personal diatribe I have ever recieved!

Anyhoo, sorry for derailing your thread anymore than it already was Jess... :)

You deserve it, duck rapist

>:|

"duck rapist?"

Man, your standards have really dropped. I expected something more...punchy?

Anyway, somebody tell me where in this thread RP ends and RL begins??!

/me hands everyone a big cup OOC* and IC** tags.

* OOC : Out of char

** IC : In char