Rene you have a good point. There ARE good pirates and I even invited one into the bar for a drink and gave him credits for not shooting me when I was unarmed. Not because I had to, but because it felt right. But as you said...It's the others that make playing miserable.

My postings were just to point out that they are harrassing TOO!

I'm just mad about the PKer's. If that's what they try to do, then they did a great job!!!!

And my point was that aroltes behaviour will remove the good ones because the nasty ones thrive on misery and don't mind seeing people run. Since some of them act in the same way and give a rats ass about others.

I had hoped you would have been here during beta, and you would have seen the difference between pirates now and pirates then. I fear that this behaviour will just reinstate the pirates from then. Which were defacto not pirates, but purely pk-ers. With the excuse that they are just playing the game to defend themselves from overzealous piratehunters. And that the fear of staying to fight you 1 vs 1 will reduce their profits and expose them longer to threats and possible danger.

Ugh it has come a long way, im now protecting pirates in stead of traders :(

Clearly, after gazillion posts and long discourses, Arolte basically is going to play the way he wants to, even if it means antagonizing a large number of the most active players. His "Roleplaying" is poor, but it is roleplaying.

So, let's just stop this endless and pointless argument, and let him have his way. After all, each of us can also run from him if we do not wish to be further antagonize by him. Who wins? Who knows. Perhaps the better question is "Who loses?". But I do know I play this game to have fun, and it is not fun to play with him.

Arolte, of the people that were around you, none of them used to kill newbies. some started when you started annoying us. you'll never admit to that, and that's fine. it doesn't change anything though. as for you scoring a victory by harassing me out of the game, yeah, you did. VO is probably so much better off for it. enjoy your victory. you remove a pirate, yeah, and you also remove someone who gives PVP lessons, does a fair bit of mentoring, helps people on 1 and 100... I have half a mind of just leaving that part in its entirety, I'm not sure I care to participate in a community which accepts this behaviour.

dbr, there are a few people that make playing miserable, most of them aren't pirates, they're PKers. some BLAKs have started doing that as revenge on Aroltes actions, you reap the bad moods that are sown, personally, I don't have the ability to do that to people, so I log off.

as for pirating being harassment, well there is a difference to you being targeted for carrying cargos when you pass one, and people who engage / disengage you so you can't do anything. you can't mine, you can't trade, you can't do consentual PVP, nothing, and then shrug it of with "adapt".

Now I have a quick question. Am I going to be targeted while hosting the Deneb Run or while giving combat training? Arolte has shot up BLAKs giving combat training before.

terjek, you could start an alt so you can at least have some fun.

yeah, I could start an alt so I can "at least have some fun". eh, sure. sorry, I'd rather not play. people know me as Alamar, they know who I am, they know what I do. if what Arolte is doing is acceptable, they'll have that as long as he is on. fair enough.

OOC

Arolte. I have read this thread and understand your attempt at RP. However I am a UIT admired member of the 240th pursuit squadron and am no enemy of the UIT. Would you please explain why you flew up and attacked our stationary ships while we were awaiting the next ctc convoy.

I think your RP is just an excuse. If so why not just declare it a BS and just say what you're really after? You sure aren't sticking to your own RPing rules.

Someone said you were trying to get my attention in game. I may have accidentally put you on my ignore list instead of another player. I probably tab-completed "Th" instead of "Tu". My humble apologies. But now that this issue was brought up I'd like to clarify what happened.

The Crow, I can safely say that today I have only ever used my "select nearest hostile key" throughout the course of my evening adventures. So rest assured I was not selecting anyone who did not appear red on my radar.

My radar, for whatever the reason, saw you as being hostile. And I checked your charinfo, which revealed that you had 3 UIT kills, 0 Serco, and 0 Itani. So I gave myself the go ahead and opened fire on you, which didn't kill you btw...

I realize that the faction system is kind of messed up right now. And that various bugs, holes, unintended features, or whatever are floating around to cause good standing players to appear hostile. Which is why I did the second check.

Unfortunately that second check failed as well, since by coicidence you had destroyed a few UIT players and no Serco or Itani. So can we then agree that this was simple a case of miscommunication and quite an understandable mistake?

So if in fact your UIT standing is high, I offer you my humble apologies. I hope these IFF bugs are sorted out in the future. It would certainly be nice if charinfo offered detailed faction standing info, to avoid mistakes like these. But well, it can't be helped for now.

And for future reference for anyone else, don't think I'm some type of superhero or anything. I make mistakes. And I'll gladly admit to them and offer my sincere apologies. So all this careful testing and nitpicking of checking to see whether I'll step out of line with RPing is getting quite ridiculous. That's not to say you're doing it, The Crow, but I've been seeing a lot of it from other people. I'll leave you all to your own opinions. But I'll always stand by my word that this is strictly RPing.

I'm also going to say one more thing, which I think needs to be cleared up also. Even if it wasn't RPing, indiscriminantly killing players is still considered fair play. Yes, you heard right. Nobody has ever gotten banned for it because it is not considered actual harassment. Many people seem to misinterpret the Rules of Conduct in that respect. In-game actions, including those of indiscriminate hostility, are all legitimate forms of gameplay.

So just keep that in mind that not everyone will be too hardcore about RPing. You should always keep your guard up. And remember, just relax. It's just a game for cryin' out loud. There's no point in stressing yourself over things which you can't control. Not everyone will see things your way. You just have to adapt. I'm just saying this so hopefully you won't be disappointed in the future. But don't let it get you down. The game still has some ways to go before a true role-playing rich environment can be established.

You guys never cease to amaze me. Thers about A DOZEN pirates (who themselfs prey on mostley unarmed traders) whining about ONE vigilante who does hit and run attacks on them. Why dont a few of you stand gaurd while the others fight? You could have a couple alts that wont apprear red on his radar to alert the others when hes coming, then you wont be caught off gaurd. Hell, you could just check the list of players in the sector a little more often and if you see him try and work together to kill him or, simply jump through the wh and wait for him to follow you and then ambush HIM.

mcduff : Perhaps this game is full of whiners like myself. I certainly hope it does not detract you from playing this game.

Yes. We could also just kill every trader we run into without hailing them, find their home station and kill them some more, run away when we start taking damage and generally act like prats. In fact we can also move right into the heart UIT space and continue doing so there.

Now I don't condone that. My goals in the game are to keep grey space dangerous, help newbs and become good at the various skills in the game. However, if it's considered acceptable to newb kill, station camp, and all sorts of other behaviour then maybe I can "adapt". [sarcasm] I'm sure everyone will have more fun then [/sarcasm]

The "fun factor" is determined by the game design itself. You can't expect every player to conform to an unwritten set of rules. The whole idea behind a well designed game is that everyone can have fun no matter what they decide to do. And that's what Vendetta is ultimately aiming for. It's just not there yet.

See the thing is people don't understand the fact that the game is currently incomplete. As a result there may be more freedom given to everyone, in terms of how far they can take certain actions. But that's the price you pay for getting in on such early production.

The universe right now is a very dangerous place, no doubt about it. But being extra cautious and paranoid can go a long way in terms of improving your survivability rating. Considering the vastness of the universe, it's not at all hard to avoid those dangers. Everyone learns that though experience.

Arolte : please refrain from trying to sound reasonable, because we know you are not. I will only pick on one point that is the most relevant :

You say : "The game still has some ways to go before a true role-playing rich environment can be established."

You are doing your utmost best to destroy this environment in its infancy.

This will be my last post in this thread, so do not reply to this. This is not roleplaying, this is a complaint about the behaviour about your actions. I will only post in the General thread now, since i am completely discouraged from any form of roleplaying, due to people like you.

CCB: Nobody is destroying anything. The developers are free to change the rules and boundaries of the game as they please. They're constantly investigating things which might not be considered fun and they're fixing those things through updates. It's been happening since the early test versions of this game.

New features are put in and exploits are fixed. It's an ongoing process that's part of this game's development. I point out again that Vendetta is NOT 100% complete. If you stick around longer you'll see those changes take effect. And in the process the game will be more fair and fun for everyone.

But for now you just have to realize that this is the game as it is right now. And you can't punish players for playing the game with its current design. That's a responsibility which the developers need to uphold, not the players. You can't rely on an honor system when you've got hundreds of players on. Realistically it just doesn't work that way.

1) you can't solve social problems with techical solutions. you can change how the social problems manifest themselves, maybe also limit them, but it's usually pointless in the long run.

2) just because you can, doesn't mean you have to.

3) when active people stop playing, one should ponder what one is doing to the playerbase.

4) you don't need honor, but one has codes of conduct that are tried case by case.

Well said, terjekv!

I'd like to add a couple of observations:
1) Based on Eve Online it has been said that "apparently you can role-play even with tic-tac-toe." Playing a role doesn't require tons of features. :)
2) Attacking and possibly killing others just because "the computer says they are commi... err, red!" sound a bit psychotic. A "mental" character can be a challenge to play (but is sometimes great fun).

I agree, you can roleplay with two stones and your imagination just fine, it's just a bit harder to get 50 people to play the same game as you. the setting isn't overly well defined. well, unless you write lots and lots of rules.

and yeah, playing a psyhotic character can be a good thing, both for the game and for fun. it needs to be done with care and control though.

Wow.....alot of talk back and forth and the "solution" seems rather obvious....

I have a character that is KOS with UIT...simply from killing a player, who was carrying CtC, in UIT space. This character also has UIT kills...every single one was a consensual fight or a duel. This character has never pirated a single player...every fight has either been related to CtC, BP, a consensual fight or a duel.

Maybe I need to define what I consider a "consensual fight". Normally it takes the form of "Wanna go a round?" in sector chat....sometimes it takes the form of someone just attacking me unprovoked and I do fight back. In which case I consider it perfectly OK to do the same to that particular character at anytime in the future...if it's OK with you to attack me unprovoked than I consider it "consensual" for me to do the same to you in the future.

Personally I am glad that Arolte has taken the time to let me know that because of my KOS standing with UIT that he will attack me unprovoked...it saves me the effort of watching him to see what he will do. In the future when I enter a sector and see Arolte in the sector I will know that I can immediatly attack and that it's OK with him.
Since I also know now that he is a runner, it's a simple matter of calling in a few other players to contain and destroy him either before he runs or during his run.

I judge every player in the game (it's only a game...remember?) the same way. Some of my most vicious opponents are the people I chat with the most...mainly because we understand each other and how we each play the game.

I see no problem in Arolte stating his intended mode of play..it simplifies my response. I'm sure he understands that it's not personal or "griefing"...it's just a response to his stated mode of play.

I'm confused that this message thead contains all this talk of "higher logic" and morality when it doesn't seem to warrent this attention. The "solution" seems simple and obvious to me.....

I guess the only thing I have to say to Arolte is that, rather than defending the games ability to allow your actions. Try defending your actions as interesting and fun gameplay.

Sure you're ALLOWED to roleplay, just like my boss is ALLOWED to be a dick, there's really jack that I can do about that.

But I'd really rather that my boss wasn't a dick, it would make work more fun.