Yes, you roleplay. Yes, it's your style of roleplay. Keep in mind it conflicts with the styles of many other people, including my own. I was attacked a short while ago by you just for having a [Syn] tag without any warning. No questions. Nothing. You didn't even bother to ask me what I was doing in the Syndicate when you knew I wasn't a pirate-type player.

As I explained to you, many players have background information (such as a history/biography) that defines what their characters can and cannot do. My character was in the Syndicate for a reason that should have been very obvious to anyone who reads her logs and at least understandable to someone who's ingame as much as you are when she is given how much conversation occurs surrounding the events in those logs.

If you're going to roleplay, fine. But do everyone a favor and find out why they're doing what they're doing. Read the stories in the RP forum. You said you didn't have time. Well, take a day or two off from playing and familiarize yourself with how other characters react to certain situations.

This is a case of you not being able to see your opponent's viewpoint, Arolte, at least in the realm of roleplay. I *see* your viewpoint on tactics. Yes, hit and fade is a valid tactic. It works. That is why it is a tactic. That doesn't stop it from being cheap as all hell, which is what everyone is complaining about. Your roleplay, however, is very dodgy at times and sometimes gives the impression of having been slapped together haphazardly without any care for consistency. I think everyone would benefit if you would write your own story. Then we can see from the pilot's eyes what is going on.

If you aren't going to do that, at least read some of the other stories. I will link a few so you don't have to go searching.

http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/7/7303 - Miharu's Personal Log
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/7/8286 - Ananzi's Logs
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/7/8918 - Borb's Logs
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/7/9241 - Alamar's Railgun Logs
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/7/10048 - Smittens' Logs
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/7/10313 - Drift/Yukinari's Personal Log
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/7/10576 - Operation Toasted Marshmellow (multiplayer notepad style one)
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/7/10776 - Gavan's Logs
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/7/10823 -Taso Sla's Log (re: Obsidian Incident)

I discussed this with you in the game, Celkan. Basically to sum it up I don't have the time to read up on everyone's personal logs or stories. And when the player count reaches over a thousand, keeping track of everyone's background will be downright impossible. Getting frustrated over something like that now will just lead to more frustration in the future.

And see the thing is if you associate yourself with a pirate guild you have to expect to be attacked by me. You know what I'm all about and yet you became completely shocked when I attacked you. Surely you can't expect everyone to read your background like the next best-selling novel. It's not going to happen.

So I guess people need to be reminded that guilds have a special meaning behind them. Some players don't seem to understand that. And there's an increasing number of non-pirates joining pirate guilds, for some odd reason. And the end result is players getting killed for things they didn't do. Well, I guess you can't blame them since some of them are newbies.

But still, it doesn't change the fact that guilds are meant to represent something more than just the average player. If you group yourself with hostile players, you will get caught in the crossfire. It's common sense. If some of you mentors truly care about protecting these newbies, don't cram them into a pirate guild and turn them into targets. Use common sense.

Guilds are not just something where you just slap a tag on to your name do whatever you want. Guilds are meant to group you together with players which have a common goal and belief. They have meaning. And I understand role playing may become a part of that. But I believe it should have perhaps been your responsibility to let me know what was up with that. Not mine.

Arolte,
If you are going to be casting judgment upon everyone who does not coincide with your view of an acceptable citizen of VO (aka non pirate, UIT lovie dovie) then please take some responsibility for your execution list.

MY GAWD! Someone KILLED someone else!
This is a frightening and disturbing development!
Get the timber, WE'RE BUILDING BONDFIRES TONIGHT! THE WITCHES MUST DIE!

Arolte, guilds are also used to train people in combat and the game. Because our player base is so small and there isn't much content yet it's the best way to get someone interested and keep them interested. The Vipers have done this with Asena, CLM has done this with lots of people. Most of these people aren't pirates. It's more just a friendly training ground to learn about the game. Most people respect this. In our battles with the Vipers, for example, we don't grief the new players. We go for their experienced players first.

Why is this the case? Well could you think of a better way to learn about the game? Why are non pirates joining the pirate guilds? Because they get to learn about all aspects of the game, and because the pirate guilds (CLM in particular) are the most active guilds in the game.

Most people recognize that role of those guilds, however some insist that their "roleplaying" takes precedence over helping people.

That's the thing genka.
This is a mini society.
When someone kills someone in real life there are consequences.
Now in VO killing is tolerated but still gets to players on whatever level.
Its a game though!
Its only simulated death so who really cares?
Well unfortunately players have feelings and tend to care when they die.
Even if it is just a game some players actually cultivate feelings toward this game.
What can we do about that?

Well as genka pointed out we can laugh at them.
Seriously though, how dare ppl care!?

Ho-hey! In place of making a long post about random useless junk I'll link you to a good book!
Go me!

http://www.rusf.ru/books/xussr_s/abs_e02.zip

and of course, since it was obviously missed:

1) you can't solve social problems with techical solutions. you can change how the social problems manifest themselves, maybe also limit them, but it's usually pointless in the long run.

2) just because you can, doesn't mean you have to.

3) when active people stop playing, one should ponder what one is doing to the playerbase.

4) you don't need honor, but one has codes of conduct that are tried case by case.

Arolte you went right through that post and missed the point.

[SumUpMissedPoint]If you have time to play the game and irritate people to the point that they want to leave *now*, then you have time to read at least a good half of those stories I linked in a good day's worth of play-time. It's not a waste, and you might (God FORBID) learn something about another player.[/SumUpMissedPoint]

I also want to point to the title of this topic. Is that the rule you truly fly by? Are you absolutely sure? I was attacked by a green dot by the name of "Arolte". Not a red one, not a yellow one or a blue one or a white one or a gray one. A green one. That rule up there is (IMHO) the biggest double-standard you have. You attack players that are green on your radar. Don't deny it, because you already admitted that you attacked me.

And you know, it doesn't hurt to ask what's going on when you see someone you know to be X type of player in an anti-X situation. It really doesn't. I got asked by a bunch of people why I was in the Syndicate when they saw my tag that day if I had turned pirate. I replied no, and pointed them to the first four entries in my log. People came back and said "Oh, OK. I get it." Then they went on their merry way. You, on the other hand, just see the tag and go "OU! [Syn]/[BLAK]/[CLM]! MUST BE WUN O' DEM EBIL POI-RATS! GOTTA EASE MAH ITCHY TRIGGAH FINGER! BLAM BLAM RATATATAT!" You don't even look to check the name of the player. If you did you would probably have noticed it was a player who shies away from PvP, even PvP that is consentual. Of course, you didn't, and you attacked, and were fired upon in self-defense. You then turned tail and ran and came back with a Prometheus to "finish the job". How lame is that? Coming back to finish off a player who doesn't do PvP? One who scared you off should we like to get technical, in fact.

I don't fight cowards who run from fights that they start in real life, nor do I bother with them in video games. I respect their tactics for what they are (tactics and tactics in name only), but I do not emulate them.

I'm going to stop paying attention to your arguments that use roleplay as an exucse until you have done at least one of the following and can *prove* that you have done so:

a) Read the stories I listed above AND/OR
b) Write a story of your own for your character. I don't care about the format. Just write something other than a set of rules you don't really use.

I'll pay attention to everything else you write...I just want to see that you are at least semi-aware of what other characters are doing roleplay-wise, and why they are doing it.

LOL! Thanks, genka. We could use more humor around here. It's funny but it's also somewhat true. Heheh. People just need to chill out. Killing is part of the game. Anyway, I really appreciate it.

I really don't want to get into the politics of all this crap. Quite frankly it's starting to give me a headache to try to get me to justify my actions every three seconds. But I will add a few more things in response...

Celkan, I'm here to play the game. Not read stories. The part about me "irritating" other players is me playing the game, believe it or not.

Celkan, it's possible for green dots to be visible within pirate guilds. But they're part of the listed objectives. Players who hide behind good standings as a pirate does not absolve them of their crimes.

Celkan, if I asked everyone I met what was going on or gave prior warning, it would ruin the element of surprise and it could prevent me from accomplishing my objective. Attacks are most effective when they don't see it coming.

Celkan, I role play. But it's not as hardcore as what other people may like it to be. As I said I just don't have time for that. But I do like to offer myself a rule of conditions to help make the gameplay more interesting. You know, to see how long I can stick with it and to give it some purpose to the random fighting that's part of the game right now.

Martin, it's possible to train people without taking them up into your guild. I just don't agree with the methods you choose, because quite frankly I think it's putting a lot of players in danger unnecessarily.

Martin, as I said before guilds have a purpose and meaning behind them. Once you put that tag on you represent part of that belief. If you do not wish people to get targeted for being labeled as pirates, keep them out of those guilds. It's a very easy step to take to avoid any confusion.

Martin, I'm not going to make exceptions to my objectives. Because then I'd have to make a list of exceptions for everybody. And well, that would be too boring and tedious. The whole thing would just be a whole headache of exceptions. And I'm not a very good organizer.

So in conclusion, don't take everything I say to be set in stone. Mistakes and random things may happen. Human error is inevitable. So in return try not to be so strict or cry wolf everytime that happens. I will treat you with respect if you keep an open mind. Otherwise it just becomes annoying and I'll probably ignore it.

*muses*, why is that in arguments, people always ask for the person they're arguing to have an open mind?

It's one thing to roleplay,

Harassment is very different.

A pirate looks for anyone that might pay. But most of us, are not going to grief someone out of the game.

You on the other hand, see it as your goal to torture PARTICULAR players to the point where they just aren't having fun anymore.

You've only attempted this against me on one occasion.

I would be fighting, you would attempt to sneak up, I would turn, and you would run.

I think the big problem people have is that there's no way to end harassment when it comes to you. YOU get to decide when its over.

Griefing doesn't need to be constant pk'ing, it's any action taken to specifically demoralize a single player.

By that definition, pirates aren't griefers at all, dying isn't such a bad thing, but placing yourself in a position where the only way for a person to escape you is to leave the game IS griefing. And you should be temporarily banned each time there is a verified report that you have done just that.

WOOOOOOOOOOT 151 posts!
Simple math dictates that our opinions are nothing compared to Arolte's opinion, seeing as how we can't do anything about anything and he won't stop what he's doing cause he doesn't have to stop what he's doing unless its forced upon him because that's what this game is! Full of possibilities. If its possible then its fair.
I feel bad that the devs are in such a bind in deciding who is right.
Because according to the Rules Arolte hasn't done anything "too" bad.
I guess the devs just have to let Arolte antagonize ppl out of the game since he's not doing anything directly against the rules.
Too bad, this game was my favorite.

There were absolutely no instances where a target player could not have escaped from me whatsoever. The opportunities were all there. They just chose not to use it. I'm not going to put my weapons down just because people don't feel like being attacked. That's like saying, "Look, Artemis Collector, I don't feel like fighting anyone today. Please stop firing at me. Thanks." And surely you're not going to ban bots from the game for repeatedly killing you in a sector where you're trying to stand still.

The very definition of "griefing" that people use today ironically applies to the hostile stalkerish behavior of Strike Force bots as well. There IS no difference, aside from one being human controlled and the other being AI controlled. Regardless of the player's attitude, it's a behavior of hostility which will inevitable exist in the game. As long as nobody is being harassed verbally I don't see it as a problem at all.

The point I'm trying to make here is that none of this is personal. I'm don't hold any personal grudges with anyone. Some may find that hard to believe. And that's where the problem lies. Because I'm being 100% honest in saying that it isn't personal at all. Not once have I verbally abuse anyone for being killed. And if there was some way of masking myself by being indistinguishable between player and bot, I'm more than willing to bet that nobody would be complaining about my actions.

Arolte,
Noone expects anything from a bot.
Your a human O_O
Humans have options.
Humans can do more than react.
For some reason ppl still have expectations for you.
Ex: Read the last 100 or so posts.....
I know its stupid really.
To rise above bots is almost inconceivable.

o_O

Maybe I should join the Border Patrol guild. They seem to have the right idea behind it. It's a shame they're not very active anymore. They seemed like a cool bunch with the right attitude about role playing. Heck, just look at their names! I'm so jealous now...

http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/guildinfo/49/

Actually Arolte, you won't want to join the Border Patrol guild.

Because *WE* actually Roleplay, and I am sure Solra won't want you. And I know for a fact that ALL of the Border Patrollers loved you to bits.

In your heightened state of enlightenment, I hope you realized that.

Haha, nifty Arolte, the BP guild?

They Finished out fights, flying in basic vultures with Phase Blasters.

What do you add to the community eh?

Or is this just about you?

Oh, and for the record, the strike forces follow VERY strict rules. They don't make mistakes.

Whereas yours are subject to change.

Furthermore, the strike forces are easily escapeable.

To start fights with everyone and run away, (You don't even display the INTENTION of killing them unless they're completely afk), how do you have fun like this?

You are using "tactics", but what are these tactics designed to achieve?

So you're saying the faction system and no-fire zone rules are perfect, Shapenaji? Interesting theory. And you say they're easily escapable? They send out observers and seekers that stalk you throughout multiple systems. And who says players aren't escapable? I do it all the time.

=)

Ah, so you're accepting my other assertions then? You know, the heart of the post?

(Though if you really want to argue about it, I never said the system with strike forces was perfect, just that they have specific rules, and they follow them,

and the devs are always careful to make sure that they don't follow people throughout the universe, giving people grey as a place where they can PvP

it is easy to escape players, perhaps that's the problem, you are never held accountable for your actions, there's really very little we can do outside of a public forum)

But I'll ask the question again, what is the intention of your tactics? what goal do you seek to accomplish?

No, what you do is annoying a community of ppl which have their own relations, a community from which you have excluded yourself.