Can we just get them removed from the mission's list.

First, It looks like the Apu17's have been moved up to higher levels, I haven't had one in a while. We did get them too soon before. I had to level up to get TachII outside of the missions. I'm speaking of solo group missions.

Second, I'm far from being one of the better fighters. If I can kill them then any other average pilot can too. It takes a little strategy and you may have to knock them down a bit, repair and come back for the kill.

We do want variety and challenge in the game. Gird those loins!

Well they stopped me dead, they are very often on advanced combat missions, never as first mob so one ends up rerolling mish halfway trough. Not to mention the fact that without finnishing missions there is no way to lvl, not any reasonable one anyhow.

To make it even worse I have yet to find a spot were they are alone, always accompanied by like 4 other types, I warp in and then I am dead. This is the exact reason why I quit that thing called EnB, every single stop was death. IT may be that I am incredibly bad at this very awkward combat system, but to me there just aint any way I can progress any more, (2 days playing 4,3,2,1). So no real point, sadly cause I had a LOT of fun up until this point.

Do group missions this is a MMORG not a Singleplayergame. :)

This issue is being addressed by the devs. They know the bots need to be redistributed.... I think that's why the new nav map message is bots sighted, not bots there. Remember it is a beta and the devs do need to hear this info. Check the "bugs" forum to see that you're not alone. I have to say though, I just did a single group mission and went 36 bots without a a-17

Do group missions this is a MMORG not a Singleplayergame. :)

Ya ok lets do group missions and still not be able to complete then due to aputech 17's. Nice idea there from the obvious metal superpower that you are.

A17 is death.
doing group missions solo is cheap hack.
issue must be addressed properly no doubt.

Strange, I have absolutely no problems killing A17s... It just takes time, they dodge quite well.

Ray wants to know why everyone is saying the a-17 bots are too difficult for a levle 4-5 player. I think it is that the a-17 are found in sectors with other difficult bots. If there were 3 a-17 and 12 orun in a sector I think I would be able to kill the a-17.

I agree to Ticho. I'm not good in PvP battle but with ApuTech-17 i have no Problem.

If someone needs help with ApuTech-17 then /msg me (Agonizer), i'll damage and collect them so you can finish them off.

I'm located in UIT sectors.

I don't think the problem is the A17's by themselves, it is the fact that they are accompanied by a number of other bots flying in formation with it.
A17's are very killable. But the current configuration as it stands requires you straferoll in reverse plinking away at all of them for a really, really long time.
Me, I just kite on the A17 and hopefully by the time he has died I have reached jumpable space. Leave the area.
Either way it is a very hazardous situation that can and does go wrong, and often.
It is quite the learning curve going from 5 single sequential collector bots in a row, to a fully armed group escorting an actual fighting bot, the A17.
It is much easier to simply abort the mission and sift for a new one.
Too much, too fast.

Well, by the time you get aputech 17s for missions, you're supposedly not considered newbie-ish, why would you expect another variation of poor lonely defenseless bot? I like the increased difficulty. It is also less boring this way.

ok the problem is by no means how hard the apu17's are to fight. But if you look at the other bots that are in the same missions they are systems apart. I mean the only place I have found apu17's are in the first UIT sector near the Itani side. The missions that you get call for artemis collectors aputech5 and kannek collectors, then you get hit with the aputech 17, you have to fly 4 system to get them then fly back.

Not to mention that you have to fight though a fair number of hard bots to get to the aputech17 its just more hassle then its worth.

Now if they were to move some aputech17's into itani space or make them accesable within a system of the other bots on the list then not a big deal. This however would be much more of a hassel for the devs, so the logical solution is to remove them from the mission list for advanced combat, so the missions are completeable without traveling back and fourth between 5 systems.

I thought this was all pretty obvious to people that had been playing for some time but maybe i underestimate the players.

I'm not expecting more defenseless bots. That would indeed be boring.
The logical thing to expect would be an Intermediate combat training category composed of 5 sequential single Guardian bots, and you have to kill 100 to qualify for the current Advanced combat training.
This would scale the training process a little better.
Just because throwing the switch from Easy to Advanced is fun for you, does not mean it is fun for others.

As stated, the a17 themself are not the problem, problem is they are never alone.

As for difficulty I agree, it should be hard, and get harder, but anyone ever heard of scaling? You do not go from division 5 soccer to division 2 in one go.

I still have trouble with the a5's even, one or 2 killed before I need to redock and that is by launching 28 missiles from 2k and run and hope for the best.

There are plenty of things still to learn for me of course, I am a long way from understanding this strange combat system, (why DOES the aim not always point in the same direction as the ship, I just can not understand why it lags behind so). But please note devs that even though I have only been here 2 days, well 3 now, that is generally much longer then most people do stay before deciding wether or not to stay, they get tired fast and move one, this market is fierce.

At the VERY least let us see ALL the bots that the mission is going to consist and thoose of us who think these things are way of the scale can reroll and the ones who likes em can pick them mishes.

As a side note:

4 missions in a row

1. Second bot is a17
2. Dito
3. Dito
4. Third bot is a17

I actually managed the one in the 4th mish but got nailed before I could warp out, that in itself is also problematic maybe possible to kill the damn things but one also needs to get out alive...

Yes doing group missions is a possibility, either alone or several people. I am well aware that this is a MMORPG but what game in this genre would enforce grouping so early on? Having to group to advance is not very good for any game, especially not this early on.

I also do realise this is a beta of course, I am not whining or complaining, I am trying to make the creators aware of something that I view as a major flawm, (well to me it is much more, it is a total showstopper, but that is just me). I am sure it will get fixed/balanced/scaled properly.

In the meantime, I've taken to making hit-and-run attacks on the ApuTech 17s. I jump in to the sector and run around until I spot the '17, then I make sure my battery is full and run in behind it, right up close. I then hit it hard and run like hell when all of the other bots turn their attention to me. I jump out, go repair or drop off cargo if needed, and then hop back in to finish the job.

From the FM (did you forget what account you had loged in btw)

"In the meantime, I've taken to making hit-and-run attacks on the ApuTech 17s. I jump in to the sector and run around until I spot the '17, then I make sure my battery is full and run in behind it, right up close. I then hit it hard and run like hell when all of the other bots turn their attention to me. I jump out, go repair or drop off cargo if needed, and then hop back in to finish the job."

You cannot be serious to think this is a normal method of completing a mission that is only going to net you 250-350 combat exp when you need 20k just for one level. And to think the group mission was giving me 5 a17's to kill just about an hour ago. It would take me about an hour or so to do the 5 a17's in this fashion.

so 20k/350= 57.1

Its going to take me 57 game hours to get from combat 6 to 7.

no wonder most of my friends have said to hell with this game.

To tell the truth, I'm getting somewhat frustrated by people complaining about how difficult the ApuTech-17 Guardians are. They're really not all that difficult. Think of them as being basically glorified ApuTech-5 Guardians. They're a little stronger, not not all that much more difficult. True, the presence of consorts makes things just a bit more difficult, but the ApuTech-17 really isn't that tough. For instance, I can kill an ApuTech-17 (and on a good day, all of the consorts as well) with just a Centurion III with a Tachyon II.

You just need to be persistant, and not unwilling to die a few times, and practice against them. All bots have certain patterns that they follow, and the trick is to learn how they react to certain situations (what do they do if you change your course, what do they do when you shoot them, etc), and you can craft tactics to combat them more effectively. Of course, you could always just ASK for help as opposed to just giving up. Ask anyone who's been around for a while, and they'll probably have figured out their own tactics for defeating the Apu-17 (as well as pretty much everything up through the Hive Queen - well okay, I've never seen the Hive Queen, but eventually), and if you ask real nice, we might teach you a trick or two.

But whatever happens, the ApuTech-17s aren't invincible, and it's not as if no one can beat them, so if you try hard enough, you'll soon figure out the tricks too.

Part of the problem may be that the newbies never learned to dodge properly. The vets learned the combat system through PvP, so we learned to dodge. The newbies learned it by fighting collector bots which requires no skill at all. When you get to an aputech-17 and are required to dodge flechettes and tachyons, it gets a bit harder.

And if the a-17s are that hard, group with someone on a higher level than you. BAM! Problem solved. There are plenty of vets that are willing to jump in and help.

Aw, c'mon...I suck and I can kill a "17" with no problem...and, the travel time to them gives me a little break.

This is way too much ado about nothing.

Those who have quit because of this issue want too much instant gratification.