woo! felt good to get that out, sry about my uncomprehensible way of writing... and my spelling...

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Good, more people are beginning to see the truth about the valk. Now people are gonna try and convince you that you "lack skill" or should "just learn to dodge" but don't listen to them these people are the ones who use only the valk and are trying to keep it in it's unbalanced state!
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i defend the valk and sunflares yet i don't fly a valk (or any special ship for that matter). please get your facts straight. some of you complain about constantly being rocket rammed. why then have i only been rocket rammed once, regardless of the ship im in? i will agree that the rockets need to be limited to one pod per ship but the valk is balanced in its current form.

AS I said before:
1. Valks are insane ships and the ability to rocket ram is already changing the way people play. There soon will be less duels, dogging fights and skills at play than just plain ramming (with the ships as well). Further more, valks ability to head-on kill will even worsen the skills level. Why learn if you can ram most players? For those few skilled once? waste of time...
2. Argument that valks are a bad ass ships and should be kicking just make me laugh. All ships in the game are quite balanced. Why this one is sooo insane?!
3. Once again most peps think there is something that should be done about valks this way or the other - which makes my point again. BALANCE THE SHIP!!!!

if you just limit the ammo of the rockets, heavier ships will be useless.

Whether or not my post was accurate doesn't change the facts. The valk in it's current state will only have negative effects in vendetta and while I loathe to see things get nerfed it is the quickest and simplest way to fix things until there is a more permanent solution (i.e. an effective counter ship).

It all comes down to this : would you really want to play a game where ONE tactic dominates ALL the other possible tactics OR would you rather play a game where you can choose a tactic that suits your own personal style?

@Froggy: the valk is balanced. the rockets are not. nerfing the valk further is not the answer. something needs to be done about the rockets.

that or remove all the special ships. or just make special ships available in s18 only and remove the home feature from s18.

@Independence: you have no proof, neither does Froggy, I think saying it once is enough.
IMO, the vulture and the valk is overpowering, the prom is fine, and the pizza cutter shoul get a small port removed.

I would have to say that the valk is mabey a little to manuverable, the cent is supposed to be the blindingly fast dart and the vult beats it. If valk and cent swapped and the vult stayed the same the fighters would be fixed.

However, this still leaves sunflares to be balanced. As of yet I belive that the proximity is the problem with them as I have been in duels (thats right not rams but duels) where the enemy aims where I was and still hits me where I will be. They should have to aim at least a little ahead of me so the rockets meet me, otherwise the skill is removed.

As for preventing rams, pick a weapon that can shred ships that fly strait into it. Its so hilarious when your getting rocket rammed, you fire paired swarms, the rammer explodes before they can fire a volly, and they say (this being the funny part) "thats cheap! use a real weapon cheap @$$"

Guys, guys, guys. Are we complaining about rocket-ramming, or the Valkyrie?

If rocket-ramming, listen up, and listen to the wisdom of a vet:

1. Check your 6, watch the sector listing for known hostile players. Hit x repeatedly.
2. Be ready to roll-strafe in 3 directions immediately. I remapped "q" and e" to opposites, and I like that better.
3. A Vulture with a medium or heavy engine is impossible to rocket-ram if you use some thought and strategy.
a. Rammers hate taking damage, as they know that ramming will hurt them. This means shoot them when they're boosting.
b. Always keep distance between yourself and them. If you use a heavy engine, you will be traveling faster than most valks, and be able to shoot them when they boost (see a).
4. The problem is not the sunflare in and of itself! I love a loadout of either two gauss or two tachs with a flare. Very effective--the flare causes the enemy to keep his distance and occupies his mind while the gauss or tach let me take him down. The problem is the grouping of Flares. I think this would be solved by making some slots "secondary" only and others "primary only." Waddayathink?

Now, if it's the Valk:

1. As I mentioned before (and everyone ignored my post!), the Valk has been hit twice already. Give it a break!! Froggy is a newbie! Give him a couple months and he will think otherwise. Heck, has anyone tried a Hog with screamers/jacks and a grav or gauss? That hurts!! I would prefer we balance ships by increases the spectrum (i.e., making heavier ships more powerful, or more heavily armored) than narrowing the spectrum. Why make the Valk have the same HP as a Vult? It's supposed to resemble something better than the Vult.
2. If you suck so incredibly, don't get into fights with Valks. Right now, someone determined to run can run and not get caught. If you fight, you're at an inherent disadvantage. I think too many people let their ego get in the way, and think they're gonna make themselves righteous again by beating up the other guy "fair and square" only to be rammed. They then get rather righteously offended. Ignore the trashtalk and save your hide or ego.
3. Get better. Many people don't use Valks. I would say we beef up the under-used ships. The Wraith is a ship that is practically non-existent. Beef that up!! No one uses Prommies anymore, I say we give them 10k more HP. The Rag should take forever to kill, I'd say give it 35k armor. Why must we constantly reduce HP? Has it ever occured to you that some ships AREN'T MADE TO GO ONE ON ONE WITH A BETTER SHIP!??! The Valk is a supreme fighter, don't go up against it in your measily little Cent and whine when you die. Or a trading ship. Or whatever. Learn and play the game and use the inherent strategies already incorporated OR LOSE!

DS4 out.

Froggy is NOT A NEWBIE if he's the froggy that I know.
I don't "suck so incredibly", but I HATE getting in fight with valks.
"Get better. Many people don't use Valks"
well the problem is, someone who's not really THAT good, but isn't THAT BAD uses them, and it's annoying...
the prom is fine, I'd use it, but it's not my nation's ship.
and SirCamps, I think you need to be reminded that this IS a test, not "get better or lose" game.
If I read your post in another way, you are, believe it or not, offending me in some way.

Solution 1: Modify the Valkyrie to balance it. (Under the current scheme, my method would be to give it an agility rating in between the Vulture and and Hornet because it's armor and firepower suggest a fighter-attack ship hybrid.)

Solution 2: The Valkyrie is an advanced, high tech ship that's meant to be superior to other ships. In the final game one will have to jump through hoops to get one. That's alright! Maybe the forthcoming mission system can make that hoop jumping a reality.

I think if one of these two things would be done soon -- balance modifications or hoop jumping -- it would greatly improve our collective sanity. :)

In response to what Kuvagh said:
"Solution 1: Modify the Valkyrie to balance it. (Under the current scheme, my method would be to give it an agility rating in between the Vulture and and Hornet because it's armor and firepower suggest a fighter-attack ship hybrid.)"

Indeed. This would already take a lot of the edge the valk has now. As SirCamps said, the valk is a very large and unwieldy target when it boosts towards you.
Now if the agility was only tweaked a *little* downwards, a vult could take out a valk with reasonable probability (roughly estimating the surroundings, skill of pilots, their mood, coffee temperature of the Nutr-o-matic dispenser and so on).
I also have taken a vult out in my dual-tach-vult (it was a pilot who must've had *much* less skill than I do). It's not impossible, but it takes more patience and watchfulness on the vult pilot's part than on the valk's.

In response to SirCamps' post:
"3. Get better. Many people don't use Valks. I would say we beef up the under-used ships. The Wraith is a ship that is practically non-existent. Beef that up!! No one uses Prommies anymore, I say we give them 10k more HP. The Rag should take forever to kill, I'd say give it 35k armor. Why must we constantly reduce HP? Has it ever occured to you that some ships AREN'T MADE TO GO ONE ON ONE WITH A BETTER SHIP!??! The Valk is a supreme fighter, don't go up against it in your measily little Cent and whine when you die. Or a trading ship. Or whatever. Learn and play the game and use the inherent strategies already incorporated OR LOSE!"

Ookaay. Easy there. The upping of the HPs I agree with (the ships nowadays really remind of glass) Also, the thought of unequal one-on-ones is right in my eyes.
The problem is: as soon as people get inventive and use ships as they're supposed to be used (read: vults to protect the sluggier hogs or proms), almost EVERYONE cries out: Waaah! I've been ganged upon! Baaad teamers! I mean, what am I supposed to do?
Also, mostly if I'm in a heavy ship (anything more sluggish than a vult, actually), it's mostly not me who picks the fight, it's the valk. Again: What shall I do? Run? Not an option. Fight? Ok, fight and die (mostly). Not funny dying all the time.
The "Learn to fight or you're not made for this game" doesn't work here. It's a *game*, not real life. You can't expect people to accept humiliation from a thing that's supposed to bring them entertainment (something about the Libido, you know).
Also, many new players (I had to learn this today, no offense to any newbs) are quite difficult to train. Some already know a little, i.e. how to handle themselves.
Most don't, and the greater part of those doesn't read the tags in the station to experiment and find out what they mean (I think I have been a newb like this too, earlier on). Err... this is OT, sorry about that. Gonna make my own thread.

I believe the problem lies not within the ships, or even the weapons. But the money, if someone loses a ship, no problem they just get it from thier hundred million credits. But if you made money as hard as it was to get pre 3.2, and upped the prices to say, 100k a valk. and 10k per flare launcher and 1k per flare. People would think twice about ramming in a very expensive ship. And then you could increase the performance of the ship without worrying about balance, as long as you keep the price high so its harder to afford.

Aye. What phoenix said.

I agree with phoenix.

I agree with Phoe.

But I still think that the balance for the Valk is fine!

The Valk still can be taken down with a vulture. Nerfing it any more will get us another Hornet. It's not a gunship, nor is it meant to be, but a high-agility fighter.

I would support making it possible that only certain accomplished Itani pilots can get ahold of the fighter, as well as on the black market. I would support a disabling type of weapon and make it able to capture ships.

I think the general consensus is that all ships are created equal--or at least combat ones. But this sooo ain't true! The Valk is meant to be superior to the Vult and Cent and if not protected, the Hornet. A Vult pilot shouldn't be able to bring one down.

Good! Then we'll have only Itani rammers.
Clap Clap Clap.
NOT.

Then deal with the rocket, not the ship. Is it not true you could ram in a hog, or a hornet, or a prom?:?

Hunter Alpha, Froggy, and Dagger--I love you guys... in a brotherly sort of way of course. Thank you. Anyone else have a problem with the Valk, please let it out now and say so. I think it's clear that something about them or the sunflares need to be changed. And yes, the s18 station home setting option needs to be disabled too. How can can a ship be special if everyone and their frickin' dog can buy one so easily? Increasing the cost alone isn't the answer. Decreasing its availability is required also in accomplishing true "special" ships.

In addition to that, the other specials needs to be balanced too. I'm not gonna say how because it'll just become a whole 'nother bitching contest, but I'll just say that they need to. But the bottom line is, each nation should be confident with their own special ship. And in addition to that people should have the option of flying non-specials without getting wasted so easily too. They'll have fewer benefits (obviously), but they shouldn't be flying coffins.

well, I'm going to make "It's a test" post. The money solution is possible, but they want us to have lots of money. Either swapping the agility of centurion and valk, or the mission system is the most likely thing right now.