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As of tonight's release (whenever that happens) there should be 7 items that have enhanced trade routes to grayspace:
Civilian Textiles
Medical Supplies
NanoPigments
ERS Tracking Systems
Plasteel
Consumer Robotics
Silksteel
Now some of these items are relatively inexpensive, but can sell for far more than their normal peak value at certain stations in deep gray. Generally, most of the items sell well in Odia, Sedina and Bractus. Some in Pelatus, a few in Latos. They all have drastically shorter min-to-max values than previously. I actually shortened them across the board (most were 138 days, before, now they're mostly around 38 days), but in Grayspace they're between 9 and 4 days, depending on the station. Some of them have very different drop-per-unit-sale, depending on the station as well, reflecting the "static demand" of the given station; so some routes may not get depleted as easily as others.
Silksteel was previously available for sale in Odia, and is not available there any longer.
As this is a first-generation test, I've only done it to these few items, and I haven't yet created any "return trip" type items (stuff made in Grayspace that sells very well in nation territory). So, for the moment, it's just the one-way thing.
I welcome feedback on how well this works. This is an experiment, it does not represent an absolute, so please suggest accordingly. I'm all for having higher-cost items for high-value routes, down the road, but this seemed like a reasonable cross-section to try for the moment, and they were all geographically located where I needed.
Civilian Textiles
Medical Supplies
NanoPigments
ERS Tracking Systems
Plasteel
Consumer Robotics
Silksteel
Now some of these items are relatively inexpensive, but can sell for far more than their normal peak value at certain stations in deep gray. Generally, most of the items sell well in Odia, Sedina and Bractus. Some in Pelatus, a few in Latos. They all have drastically shorter min-to-max values than previously. I actually shortened them across the board (most were 138 days, before, now they're mostly around 38 days), but in Grayspace they're between 9 and 4 days, depending on the station. Some of them have very different drop-per-unit-sale, depending on the station as well, reflecting the "static demand" of the given station; so some routes may not get depleted as easily as others.
Silksteel was previously available for sale in Odia, and is not available there any longer.
As this is a first-generation test, I've only done it to these few items, and I haven't yet created any "return trip" type items (stuff made in Grayspace that sells very well in nation territory). So, for the moment, it's just the one-way thing.
I welcome feedback on how well this works. This is an experiment, it does not represent an absolute, so please suggest accordingly. I'm all for having higher-cost items for high-value routes, down the road, but this seemed like a reasonable cross-section to try for the moment, and they were all geographically located where I needed.
Nice, incarnate.
It's good to see the Devs using high value trade to draw players into grey. What I think is especially needed is high value routes WITHIN grey, as Dr Lecter suggested:
(missioncreek2)
With the advent of turrets guarding nation space, there needs to be much greater reward to players for venturing into grey space. Additionally, with the small player base, that reward needs to be localized to a single area to increase the likelyhood of traders running into pirates.
(Dr. Lecter)
Agreed. There should be some trade good available only in Corvus station Bractus, and in high demand only in Sedina D-14, with a 1 or 2 CU volume and a 100,000 credit per unit price. Profit should be north of 5,000 credits per CU. Obviously, there's the risk of people taking the longer, but marginally safer route around through UIT space, but it would make Odia--supposedly the dark, fearsome core of Grey Space--a much more popular hunting ground for pirates.
(missioncreek2)
With the advent of turrets guarding nation space, there needs to be much greater reward to players for venturing into grey space. Additionally, with the small player base, that reward needs to be localized to a single area to increase the likelyhood of traders running into pirates.
(Dr. Lecter)
Agreed. There should be some trade good available only in Corvus station Bractus, and in high demand only in Sedina D-14, with a 1 or 2 CU volume and a 100,000 credit per unit price. Profit should be north of 5,000 credits per CU. Obviously, there's the risk of people taking the longer, but marginally safer route around through UIT space, but it would make Odia--supposedly the dark, fearsome core of Grey Space--a much more popular hunting ground for pirates.
Sweet, thanks Inc. :)
It might be interesting to add items like these that are only available deep in itani and serco space, like sol or itan ..the current list looks like stuff that is all available in uit space.
routes TO grey space....
how i LOATHE plasteel
...
otherwise cool
...
otherwise cool
A couple questions as I'm not ingame right now to check myself:
Now some of these items are relatively inexpensive, but can sell for far more than their normal peak value at certain stations in deep gray.
Are we talking a percentage when we're talking about "far more" here? For instance, 75% more is a huge amount percentage wise, but if we're talking an original selling price of 100 credits per cu, then we're not talking about much of a real world value.
If not, then I'm here to essentially re-reiterate Lecter's point about the selling points of these high value routes. A high markup is nice for a trader, but really means nothing to a pirate.
edit: Ok, one question then, counting is obviously not my forté.
Now some of these items are relatively inexpensive, but can sell for far more than their normal peak value at certain stations in deep gray.
Are we talking a percentage when we're talking about "far more" here? For instance, 75% more is a huge amount percentage wise, but if we're talking an original selling price of 100 credits per cu, then we're not talking about much of a real world value.
If not, then I'm here to essentially re-reiterate Lecter's point about the selling points of these high value routes. A high markup is nice for a trader, but really means nothing to a pirate.
edit: Ok, one question then, counting is obviously not my forté.
Snax, a bit OT, but it's been buggin me for a while.. you need to change your name!
Every time I see "Snax" I get hungry.. YOU'RE MAKIN ME FAT!
Every time I see "Snax" I get hungry.. YOU'RE MAKIN ME FAT!
The benefit to pirates is that traders will be lured out of the safety of nation space in larger numbers and along predictable routes. The traders might even be a bit reckless.
One hopes, one really hopes. I am not too sure about the reckless part Whistler, they tend to do other stuff when a known pirate has cheered on 100. But............... one hopes
I could be wrong here but I think other items are still more profitable to trade in the same system than to haul these goods to grey, more time more distance and less profit.
Haven't been able to check on the new routes yet due to some technical issues but, generally, time is money so greater return on investment is only enticing if the profit/time ratio is greater than what can be achieved elsewhere. Tack on a danger premium and routes to and from deep Grey will have to be at least five times as profitable as trade within Nation space to get Traders to risk them on any kind of a regular basis (roughly based on the number of jumps required). Make the profit/time ratio an order of magnitude greater and then the risk becomes worth the effort of organizing convoys and escorts.
In an attempt to balance the other side of the equation, I would suggest cargo be susceptible to damage with only some fraction of the total surviving the destruction (10%) of the carrying ship as opposed to the current situation of cargo holds dumping their entire contents like a pinata. This is a nod to realism and, potentially, makes it more profitable for pierats to negotiate rather than just, boringly, shoot and loot. This would also make it more likely for traders to stop and negotiate since the understanding is that to do so is more advantageous for the pierat in the long run.
EDIT: Just to clarify, the profit/time ratio of 5x to 9x in-system trade is very fuzzily about where I see independent traders operating to/from Grey space.
In an attempt to balance the other side of the equation, I would suggest cargo be susceptible to damage with only some fraction of the total surviving the destruction (10%) of the carrying ship as opposed to the current situation of cargo holds dumping their entire contents like a pinata. This is a nod to realism and, potentially, makes it more profitable for pierats to negotiate rather than just, boringly, shoot and loot. This would also make it more likely for traders to stop and negotiate since the understanding is that to do so is more advantageous for the pierat in the long run.
EDIT: Just to clarify, the profit/time ratio of 5x to 9x in-system trade is very fuzzily about where I see independent traders operating to/from Grey space.
Well, the adjustments to trade routes are a welcome step in the right direction. TGFT will be monitoring them to see how they work out in practice .
Agreed, it is a step in the right direction. I can foresee tiered levels of trade along the lines of the below developing:
- In-system trading for beginning traders
- Trade within Nation Space for intermediate traders
- Trade to/from Grey Space for advanced traders
Profit at each tier would be commensurate with needs (cost to operate) at each level and risk.
- In-system trading for beginning traders
- Trade within Nation Space for intermediate traders
- Trade to/from Grey Space for advanced traders
Profit at each tier would be commensurate with needs (cost to operate) at each level and risk.
Daare: that is the plan.
Snax: There is at least one item that trades for around 4 times the maximum price outside of grayspace. A high absolute value is what should appeal to a pirate, with both that and markup appealing to the trader, so I would think this case would appeal to both.
Most of the others I was a little more conservative, but still, they should bounce back very quickly and not drop off as easily.
Anyway, I welcome further real-world feedback from those who have been actively using the modified items in those locations, and comparing them against existing routes.
I'll probably be spending this week doing "other" stuff (Faction/FF related, etc), and then come back to the trade route thing in a week, when you guys have hopefully accumulated some picture of what works and what doesn't, and why/how. Thanks.
Snax: There is at least one item that trades for around 4 times the maximum price outside of grayspace. A high absolute value is what should appeal to a pirate, with both that and markup appealing to the trader, so I would think this case would appeal to both.
Most of the others I was a little more conservative, but still, they should bounce back very quickly and not drop off as easily.
Anyway, I welcome further real-world feedback from those who have been actively using the modified items in those locations, and comparing them against existing routes.
I'll probably be spending this week doing "other" stuff (Faction/FF related, etc), and then come back to the trade route thing in a week, when you guys have hopefully accumulated some picture of what works and what doesn't, and why/how. Thanks.
Ok i sold plasteel to Sedina d-14. I picked the items up in Azek. When i first checked the profit was about 1600 credits per cu. when i fanally sold about 1000 cu the profit was down to 1024 credits per cu. Ok its profitable but there are better trade rutes that are just as profitable or more so.
I'll try another item tomorrow to a different station if i have tome.
I'll try another item tomorrow to a different station if i have tome.
The pirate interest is the absolute value of the cargo. How much does the new loot sell for in sedina?
The buy price was cheap so i think i bought for about 200c and sold for about 1300 credits. So pirates shouldn't even kill me. If i was a pirate i would go after someone transporting sedina chocolates. They cost 10k to buy and will sell in Latos for about 11k. So so far its not cost effective to trade plasteel. I haven't checked the other items yet and i don't know what the peak selling price was but i doubt it was more then 3k per cu profit.
Introduce new goods? Taking a page from Elite:
Narcotics trade into Nation space
Slave trade from Nation space
Perhaps require the player to complete a mission tree to make products available, and also have nation-sponsored missions to try to bring down slave and narcotics trade?
Narcotics trade into Nation space
Slave trade from Nation space
Perhaps require the player to complete a mission tree to make products available, and also have nation-sponsored missions to try to bring down slave and narcotics trade?