More routes appearing tonight. Some of them are pretty decent, I think. We'll see.

I am surprised that no one seems able to pick up on the fact that not all traders will be able, or willing, to haul this one cargo. To hear all the complaints one would think that there would be one and only one cargo, everyone would haul it, and the rest of the trading structure would wither and die. That is just silly.

In the first place this is only one single cargo and it will only have a very limited market. Once that market is exhausted price drops and that’s it until demand rises again.

Secondly there would only be a limited supply per trader so after a few missions they would be back to trading other commodities anyway.

Third, there is nothing to prevent the pirates from trading this cargo themselves, thereby seeing to it that the price drops soon while helping defray their expenses.

Fourth with other changes, such as fogged Worm Hole exits in Gray Space, plus lots of roids to run into as one is trying to flee through the fog (broken field running anyone?) there should be ample opportunity for the poor pirate to catch at least a few rabbits. Short of setting up a “Special Olympics” for pirates, or painting targets on the sides of all cargo hauling ships and chaining them to roids I don’t know how we can bend over any further backwards to accommodate the poor dears.

Besides, as I said before, there are other people besides pirates playing the game and we can’t gear everything for the care and feeding of pirates. As it stands pirates are not even a nuisance. I fly in and out of Gray all the time with XC’s loaded with loot and seldom even see a rat, much less have to run from one. Frankly simply fielding a better grade of bot would be more interesting and challenging.

As for the shoot first, shoot last and shoot any time in between excuses I simply don’t buy them. Most of the rats I encounter seem to care less if you run or not, they are looking for a kill and don’t care how they get it. To this sort an unarmed EC or a wallowing XC makes no difference to them. All they are thinking is “kill, kill, kill.”

I don’t bother trying to negotiate, or even return a hail, from these folks since I have been shot too many times while trying to negotiate, to think that it is worth the effort. I just write the rats off as one more mindless bot and act accordingly. Frankly most rats have an inflated notion of their “value” to the game. Since they are not going to bother acting like pirates they might just as well be bots.

So long as your ship is worth more to them as a kill rather than as a source of income, calling what they do “piracy” is just a joke.

Why are you so angry?

First off, you must realize that not just any schmuck wobbling around harassing people in Greyspace is a pirate, whether or not they claim to be. Grey is a haven for griefers who manipulate labels for their own personal gain.

Second, your claim that pirates should essentially quit complaining and start trading is somewhat insulting to those who invest any time in utilizing the game mechanics to create meaningful and respected characters, characters who's aim is to further the experience for all involved. I'll be the first to say that a good pirate is also a good trader; a good pirate has to have similar knowledge as a good trader, where the routes are, where the most profit on loot is to be made, etc etc. That said, no pirate worth his or her salt is going to start making nice with the authorities so they can get at the heart of the trade simply to make a profit.

And your "special olympics" comment simply proves you have no idea whatsoever about piracy and how difficult it actually is. Sure there are the times when you catch a laden XC unawares, but this is more an indicator of either the lack of knowledge of said trader (for instance that Grey is supposed to be dangerous), or, and this is completely related, the actual lack of inherent danger in Grey due to the fact that there is truly not much going for the pirate role at this moment in VO's history (aside from those griefers masquerading as pirates mentioned before).

As for your comment as to why pirate's concerns should not be at the forefront of any debate involving trade, that is simply ignorant. Any issue that has bearing upon Greyspace activities has to be considered at least in part in the context of how it will effect those who spend the majority of their time in Greyspace.

Strangely enough, I don't actually think your idea is all that bad. Not as a trade item though, but perhaps as a mission tree of some sort.

What possible difference does it make if a person is a griefer or a “pirate?” Are we suppose to stop and check ID’s? If they are shooting at me then I don’t owe them anything, least of all respect or even attention. They are simply a nuisance and are dealt with accordingly.

However, giving griefers PK points for being griefers only rewards them for their behavior and makes real pirating more difficult. PK points should be for real combat in things like nation wars, border skirmishes and other player on player combat encounters.

Why should a griefer with a hundred “kills” of EC’s flown by noobs get the same points as pirate with a hundred hard fought battles to his credit?

Secondly what is it with people around here and putting words in other people’s mouths? I don’t know where you got the weird idea that I said anything about pirates should “quit complaining and start trading.” Isn’t reading comprehension sort of necessary for this game?

I said that “there is nothing to PREVENT the pirates from trading this cargo themselves, thereby seeing to it that the price drops soon while helping defray their expenses.” How in the heck do you manage to get “stop complaining and start trading” out of that?

As for all the pirates whining about how hard their “job” is please spare me. That is the job they chose so quit complaining. The rest of us are under no obligation to make the rat’s lives any easier at the expense of our own enjoyment of the game.

Nonetheless, I have listed idea after idea, after idea trying to find things to help make life more interesting for them and give them more options. Instead of complaining give me some suggestions how they can be improved.

It seems to me that the combination of fog and roids makes running a whole lot more difficult, particularly in a ship, like the XC, that is not equipped with a radar extender. You can’t just hit the turbo and out run the rat, you have to do a lot of broken field running, in low visibility, in poorly maneuverable ships (remember, most trading is still going to be done in Moths) with a pirate in a nimble fighter on your tail. Fun for the whole family.

Also remember that one of the reasons for a small, high value cargo, is to give new players an incentive to venture into the dangerous world of Gray. Getting ships and weapons ahead of having the licenses was what lured me into the Gray way back when, but that is gone now so why should a new player even bother going there? Having a cargo that will fit into their small ships is a big incentive to “take a chance.”

The notion that everything should revolve around the pirates is what is truly ignorant. They have a highly inflated view of their “value” to the game. They are about as “meaningful and respected” as jock itch and the only people whose “experience” they are “furthering” is their own. I don't respect or need them I simply tolerate them and avoid them as much as possible. Like I said, to me they are simply bots that talk smack.

That said pirates have a right to play the game as they see fit and others have the right to play it their way. There should be room enough for all and no one group should feel that they have the right to make everyone else play by their rules.

I'm starting to think lenseman67 must be a troll. Nobody could be that aggressively ignorant in earnest.

Thank you for your opinion. I will be sure to give it all the attention I feel it deserves.

I would say that the direction they are currently taking, making existing routes more profitable in grey-space, is the right direction. Currently the ship balance between traders and pirates is pretty good, there are a few fast ships that don't have much cargo room, and there are a few large ships that don't have that high speed. That part I would like to see maintained.

However, your underlying concept is sound, and I think it should be explored. What we need isn't some small super-widget that makes tons of money off of a tiny thing, what we need is the runs into grey-space to be worth the risk. And I'm not saying they should pay a bit more than the same runs in nation space, I'm saying they should pay a LOT more than the same runs in nation space. This is for two main reasons:
1. They take longer. If you make a few tens of thousands of credits more per run going from Dau to Bractus than from Dau to Nyrius, nobody is going to do that. It's not time-effective. You can make more with the shorter run in a shorter amount of time. The metric that needs to be used is profit/time, not profit/cu. I'm not sure if the devs are currently using this metric, because I haven't taken more than one of the new routes, but I sure others would be able to let us know if the new routes are time-effective.

2. They are dangerous. Even if they make a few thousand more creds/time than the safe nation-space runs, people won't do them because of the possibility of being caught. No, they need to be MUCH more profitable than current "safe" routes. This will not only cause more people to take them, thereby increasing traffic in grey, increasing trader profits, and thus increasing the incentive to be an ACTUAL pirate, rather than a griefer, but it will also mean that the ransoms the pirates demand would start being actually reasonable. If you're carrying close to a mil of cargo, you're not going to mind paying a few hundred thousand credits, especially if that buys you protection from the pirate in question. That would make the current grey-space dynamics work, which they don't currently. And it would also increase the usefulness of fighter escorts. In short, everyone wins.

Excellent points! Pirates will act like pirates when your cargo is worth more that your ship is as a PK.

To help that process along some, or even all, of the cargo should be destroyed when the ship is destroyed. After all that is what would normally happen and this gives the pirate the incentive to extort ransoms rather that blaze away at anything that moves.

If we had more assurance that the pirates where going to actually act like pirates instead of homicidal maniacs I would be in favor of making some “ambush areas,” such as the key wormholes into Gray Space harder to run in. Fog and roids would make running risky and slow.

Maybe a few mine fields left over from some past war could be added as well which would make blundering around in the fog at high speed down right fatal.

Other ideas could be added as well.

I have been shot too many times while trying to negotiate

Quick FYI: it's not a negotiation. Pay the requested price, or get blown to Hell.

I have a better idea. Ignore the clowns and out run them. I go for weeks at a time without even seeing a rat and when I do nine times out of ten I leave them in the dust. On the tenth time it is still no big deal. Bots in an ion storm are far more dangerous.

Like I said, they are only a very minor nuisance.

Indeed, lensman. Piracy needs a buffing. Routing traders into Grey is a good start but interception will also need to be addressed before piracy can be a credible threat.