- It does make SOME sense, and I would agree with you Tommy - except for one big problem: there's nothing to fuel this conflict between the governments. All the players see is another player with a different colored ship. Even if this ship is from a different nation... and maybe stole your flag a few minutes before (ooh heaven forbid), there's no real reason why you would really want to destroy that ship (maybe for a small amount excitement, and to boost your ego... but thats not enough). If you try to destroy that ship, you run the same risk of being destroyed yourself. And even IF you destroy that ship... what is it going to do? Q: Get you access to more resources? A: No. Q: Stop that player from ever thinking of destroying you? A: Certainly not (quite the opposite).

- The governments GAIN NOTHING from destroying other nations' ships. I'd say you lose something 75% of the time - 1. You make a permanent enemy that hunts you down with personal zeal in many instances. 2. You run the risk of being destroyed in conflict with him. The only thing I can see by attacking the other nations is an ego boost (and thats if you always succeed... which doesn't happen [certain people think they always succeed even if they get blown out of the water by a couple of ships - they argue that "I was outnumbered... thats not fair... blah blah blah"]). Most people realize this... (maybe subliminally...?) which is why there hasn't been a constant heated battle between the governments. Re-iterating the argument: There's no point or reason (besides ego) to start a battle at all.

- Now, that being said, take this scenario into account. You see a pirate ship. He WANTS to kill you, or take at least some, if not all, of your cargo. You obviously don't want him to do this... Voila!!! NOW there's a reason for battle (that which makes this game fun). And more often than not, a heated battle ensues.

- The point is.. there's something to gain in the battle between the pirates and the traders. If the pirates 'win' they cover more sectors and are a feared force - people surrender their cargo... or are easily dealt with... and the pirates GAIN something. If the free traders 'win' they either push back pirate oppression and make profit from the sectors they have 'liberated,' or they fight off the pirates long enough to make it into a dangerous sector to complete their trade... and the traders GAIN something. - Now THAT'S a fight worth fighting for.

Holy @#$%^$ jeeze... this is a long thread...
But I guess it has some good stuff in it.

Ok.. Haz... reminder: this is a TEST bed... it's NOT the game and trying to draw a conclusion about how the game is going to be based on the this is not a wise thing to do. :D

I knew somebody would say that.

- Don't worry furball - I fully realize this. I'm not trying to make the game into anything. I'm trying to make it interesting as it is right now. (It'd be a great side-effect though if Guild SW made some stuff that supported pirates in the future) <evil grin>

- You know what? I could care less about recognition and trying to "help make this game into something that I want." The devs are doing a better job than I ever could. If its recognition _you_ want... you can claim that you made this guild/syndicate for all I care. Hell, make your own pirate guild if you want to. I'm just trying to coax players to play the game a little differently. Try it furball - you might find it fun.

- In fact, if you don't beleive me furball (that I'm not in this thing for me), I won't even be around for a while. I'm selling my computer next week... and I probably won't have the funds to get one capable of runnin Vendetta for quite some time. Probaby in the range of 2-3 years (/sarcasm on. You can all start crying now, since I know you'll miss me so much. /sarcasm off). But you know what furball? The guild needs somebody with good leadership skills to manage it. Maybe you'd be up to the task? That is... if you don't find this idea completely boring and preposterous.

You make some great points, Haz. I'm actually sort of fond of the pirate guild idea, as long as it keeps to its lofty goals-- the national conflict was just something that occured to me.

One thing I thought of reading your post, though, was that interstellar wars between the actual clans give people a little more decision in how they want to play the game. If they want to be involved in a major Blue v. Red skirmish, they have the option to go to that sector. Being pirated without their consent, however, gives them a lot fewer choices on what they to get out of the game.

Thanks for the support Tommy. LoL - they are pretty lofty goals, eh? And you're completely right - it does give them some fewer choices - but it forces them to make other certain choices ones as well (i.e. give up their cargo and be spared, or take their chances in battle). And because there are no "major Blue v. Red" skirmishes in the game right now, I'd say a few choices are better than no choices at all.
-edit: well thats not really true, there are choices in the game, such as trading, botting, stealing the flag, and arguing with people you don't like-

-edit #2: I just realized something, Tommy. I forgot about the whole concept that pirating wouldn't endanger trading EVERYWHERE... A trader could still trade in the safer sectors close to his nation. Its a given that he wont make near as much profit as he would flying throught the dangerous sectors, but the option/choice of safely trading is still there.-

Sorry Haz, been there done that... was a clan member, rose up to be co-leader, don't want to get involved in all that politics again thank you... That's part of WHY I switched to vendetta in the first place. LOL

As long as Syndicate members respect the rules about leaving people be if they jettison their cargo, it'll have my full support. It's gonna be awful hard to keep members to that though.

As part of their PR campaign, the Syndicate should help keep unscrupulous pirates and pure kill-seekers in line. Besides just being a PR move, it'd help make things easier for the "actual" pirates to carry out their trade.

-Gotan Khe

Like I stated before:

I kill pirates because I hate losing cargo because I spent time acquiring the money to buy it and spent time on doiung the like you said boring traderuns. And you will never, never see me going after a pirate if I have cargo, that would be just plain stupid, because some other people would maybe think about pirating you.

But what you can expect of me is that I will get a squad together "if that is possible" and hunt him with my non-trading ship. If you want an example just ask everybody about a certain character called Leathal. Or Icarus :D.

Maybe you are right about that it would be a more fun way, but I for sure am not in the mood for wasting another 30 minutes just to get my money back up on the amount it was before I got pirated. If I want that, then we will just do some capping things or shooting bots, or maybe even hunt players that pirated me or shot me while I clearly stated non hostile :D. Another way is by doing duels .

PS: I'm sorry to hear that you'll have to miss your PC for a couple years :D

cheers

I guess a few of you know that another clan has been established.
the Trading Fedaration of Vendetta [TFV] is not in direct competition with the pirate guild.
The main goals of the TFV is to generate wealth and then share it around. We also offer protection and we try to trade in groups (strength in numbers etc.)
We dont approve of the pirate guild but we arent going to start a vendetta with them
if you are intrested in the TFV visit
http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/krisvdm/vendetta/[TFV]_main.html
where you can get a few more ideas of what were about.
Or you can e-mail kalvinrulz@netscape.net
Dibbler

/me ties one end of this thread to a bed post and throws the other out the window of his prison tower and climbs out...

Man this thread is LONG!!

me points to the off-topic board and suggest looking at the Question thread. :D

If you did that, then you will see what is a long thread :D

This is just average :D

cheers

- Renegade... wait wait wait... did I hear you say something about WASTING TIME!?!?!?!! THIS IS A GAME MAN!!!!!! Now how would you like to "waste your time!??!" Would you like to waste it trading for 3 and 1/2 hours? Hey, if trading for extended periods of time is your idea of fun... you know what? I'll leave you alone!!!!! If you DONT like to fight melee battles... then why do you play this game? You don't always win in a video game. Thats what makes it fun - theres a challenge to it that makes you keep coming back for more. It keeps you wanting to become better at the game.

- Let me try to explain this <sigh> again... when people go off and start attacking pirates, it only proves my point further (whether you like it or not). But you know what? I really don't offer much of a challenge when its me and one other pirate against 8 anti-pirate guys WHO NEVER GIVE UP. I wish I COULD offer more of a challenge, but most people just don't understand that loss and frustration is part of EVERY game. You just have to realize that you're having fun while you're doing it. It makes winning THAT much better.

Speaking of loss and frustration... has anyone here ever played Contra?

Kaze dont listen to them, theyre the same people who support Phoenix and Icarus, besides I dont think the devs will ban us just becuase were pirates, after all Phoenix is still playing :P

Okay Today I was trading and got so bored I just started to randomly shoot people so they would chase me and shoot at me.
/me wishes there was pirates on at that time :D

Renegade you have a point about this being an average thread, this is nothing compared to Question!, i'm glad we are mature enough to not let Question! turn into a sicko story. and Question! has only 2 off topic posts!, it must be a record!

Renegade - I really appreciate your input... I'm discovering more things about this myself when people speak their mind. And here's a proposed solution: then change your way of trading if you don't want to take the risk of losing your ship and your cargo on a more dangerous trade run. I'll even give you some ways of doing this: 1. Make a less dangerous (sometimes less profitable) trading run. 2. Do what you have already stated and bring support along with you. 3. They Syndicate isn't exacly a guild to be feared right now. Just get a couple of anti-pirate ships to go after them so the danger of trading in the central sectors is null.

- But as far as there being things for people to do to keep themselves entertained, I'm going to have to sort-of disagree with you. I think many will agree with me that the Vendetta community is in the pits right now. People have arguments that spam the chat window every 5 minutes. Certain players sometimes get their pride hurt so much that they go off and relentlessly kill players until those players log off. Mind you, all of these actions are 'something to do,' but wouldn't it be great if there were some sort of purpose in the game besides raising your ego and raising your score? I think you should be able to log on during any part of the day and keep yourself entertained by doing any number of things, and not have to resort to trading mindlessly for hours/arguing/botting nonstop. Maybe conflict with pirates isn't the way to do that... but it certainly seems very popular to me. (and its quite hard to keep the challenge up for people when there's so few of us)

- Side note for anybody who cares... I heavily revamped the rules at the top of this thread.. might want to read them... much simpler and easier to follow. Hopefully these new rules wont be so 'lofty.'

SL - yeh "Question!" is a huge mother @#$%#$ of a thread.

look at the one on sf's forum, 21 pages!
for the people who have not found out yet...
http://www.starfreeze.com/phpbb2/index.php

Hehe, those type of threads literally get biger and biger and usually won't die if they arn't locked! I love those threads, and the storys are kinda weird...

KINDA weird?

Point taked Pyro... and agreed with. Heh.