I personally think Swarms have no place in this game. Fire and forget weapons , without a counter measure create an unbalanced playingfield. There should either be Chafe that we can place in a slot on our ships , or something similar . As it stands now , a pilot can have a Rag loaded with Fire and forget missles , spam the missles , leave the sector while his opponent is dodging them , then return with a full load to continue racking up kills. I realize that its fairly easy to dodge these missles , however you cannot target you enemy while dodging . This creates the problem. Whats to keep people from missle spamming and running with impunity , as it stands right now nothing.

another swarms thread...

I think we all agree on this point. Its now up to the devs to install chaff or any other sort of device to counter the swarms. Then, maybe we can have better missles all together (guided avalons, etc.) since the balancing issue will be mute.

Just to clarify: all missiles, rockets and mines disappear when their owner leaves the sector or dies. There may be a small delay, however.

I'm not sure we "all" agree. Other posters have expressed that they feel that some of the larger ships are sitting ducks without FnF weapons. Of course, it's the larger ships that are more easily hit with such weapons (seasoned pilots in light fighters rarely allow themselves to be hit), so maybe countermeasures would be of high mass or would only be integrated into larger hulls?

how about shooting missiles causing them to blow up also blowing them while they are close to the person that shot them will take damage

I personally think swarms do have their place in game, as incarnate puts it: a defense heavy ships can use to supress lighter, more maneuverable ships... And you can target your opponent while dodging swarms b.t.w. it just take some practice.

From your post let me underline where I think the real problem is: "As it stands now , a pilot can have a Rag loaded with Fire and forget missles , spam the missles , leave the sector while his opponent is dodging them , then return with a full load to continue racking up kills."

Is it me, or do swarm threads only show up after someone has been on the receiving, rather than the giving, end of a swarm tube?

yea i think thats about right or a noob went to sedina and got his butt handed to him/her

Let us steer away from baiting flames and get back to the discussion at hand:

So Phaserlight, are you thinking this is more of a "running away" issue?

Thats exactly the problem , there's nothing to counter Swarms. Like I posted earlier ,"Whats to keep people from missle spamming and running with impunity , as it stands right now nothing." Trying to be constructive here. I'm not mad nor have I singled anyone out for spamming , but I do think it's an issue within the game that needs addressing.

Ehhh...

Personally, I'd say swarms are fine... except for the fact that larger combat ships (like the hornet and centaur) have a much harder time dodging them...

It's like... when you take a centaur to a fight you know will include flares... because you know that it can handle a few flare hits... and then get hosed because those flares are coupled with swarms that force you to go on the defensive and turbo... which is straight line movement... which opens you up to the flares again... some "combos" are a wee bit too effective. And yes... I am a "Mediocre" pilot... as most of the population of VO will be when this goes "public"

I'd say the problem is the prox triggers on them... why do fire&forget missiles have prox triggers? Especially swarms? Which have a higher probability of hitting just because they cover more space?

-Zoras

the problem with swarms has nothing to do with them being dangerous or hard to dodge per se, the problem is that swarms basically guarantee the person fireing them to be able to disengage if they so please.

this means that a pilot flying with swarms has to make a serious mistake to get caught in a situation where they can't get away. they don't use battery, so there is no limit to their possibilities to turbo or jump, and at the same time, once they fire, they often get a half-minute of time of control over the combat zone every time they fire. if they run out, they can just run.

this makes swarms *really* powerful. it's not their accuracy or their danger itself that makes them good, it's that you *have* to do close dodging of swarms if you wish to hit a swarmer. otherwise, they just toddle off.

swarms are supposed to be defensive measures, but I can't remember the last time I saw them used that way. even in furballs they're used to pick hits, not to drive people off teammates.

one thing might be to make their refire rate higher, in the 10-second range and have the 8 missiles launch with 0.5 seconds intervals. ie, it'd take 4 seconds to launch all missiles in a single shot. this'd make the swarms just as good as a defensive measure (maybe even better, since your shots are more spread out and harder to ignore), but at the same time, as an offensive weapon, even having two of them would give you one shot every 5 seconds. at close range, the delay between shots fired would also make it a lot harder to just get close, spin someone with a flare and swarm them, and it should be easier to avoid having the almost everything or nothing effect swarms have today.

Yeah, I die to swarms quite often for exactly the reason Alamar stated, you have to get close to ensure they won't escape, so you're generally spiraling around them and then pull a bad dodge, or wait too long, and poof, light fighter gone. I know I should be less aggressive... but hey that's me, I run headfirst into flares too.

I don't mind seeing missiles in the game, but I'd like to see them like CP suggested, as something that you have to get a targeting lock with.

We've already got mines as a defense for larger ships, swarms just seem like overkill. Especially as they are nothing like any of the other missiles (which are all completely useless).

I'd love to see missile locks ingame. Take away the beeping when they're actually fired (as MB calls them "pet beeps") and add the beeps to when someone is getting a missile lock. Suddenly you hear "beep beep beep BEEEEEEEEEEP" and then you know the missiles are away, you don't get any beeps for distance though, like you do now.

So you'd have to keep an eye on your radar.

I'd love to see swarms as basically seeking flares, not firing quite so many rockets, but doing a tad more damage per rocket

Without swarms, what would all those [SCAR] n00bs use for weaps? I guess they'd get quad-gemini Hornets?

:>

God you guys whine about everything. Swarms are not a problem at all, adding countermeasures is a GREAT idea. But other then that NOTHING needs to be nerfed.

Did you read my post john? I wasn't whining, I was offering suggestions on how to make missiles a really cool and fun wep to use.

The prox triggers are a bad idea.
Take them out or lower it from (FREAKIN 20??!?!??!) to 5.
Also lower the damage.
Proms require 4 full shots of swarms to die.
That's just sad.

/givemoney Devs 2c

Uh, Leber, I'm a SCAR n00b and I rarely use anything but dual neut Rev Cs.

i've been a long time advocat for countermesures, but it was always because i wanted the posability of better missiles. i finde doging swarms is easier than dodging mist energy weapons, and i have a hard time seeing swarm spamming as yielding any actual kills.

the complaint about the combonation of swarms and flairs is imo a groundless cne becuase it is a combination of weapons, and combinations of synergistic weapons are always deadly. and there are plenty of other combos out there.

that said i would like to see countermesures for missiles, but the first thing i would like to see is the ability to use energy weapons to destroy missiles.

The solution is obvious:
Take apart your keyboard and put it back together so that the tab key is right in the middle.