TRS This ability already exists. Though it is rarely seen by the vast majority of users. Guides have their own msg command which appears in all white text with a Guide tag, and a Guide ID # followed by the message. There is also a command to send a similar message to all players in the game though this is used far less often (though seen by more users).

Guides often won't rely on this ability to resolve situations when they can find other solutions.

Right, guides can send a private message in white text that is preceded by Guide#. Nobody else can do this.

It is our policy to warn a player before taking any action. I prefer that the guide message is used for this purpose because I am able to look those up.

I agree with and appreciate some of the suggestions to add features to make the life of a guide a bit easier. As Incarnate said, the guide interface still leaves much to be desired. I think the guides have done well with what they have been given, and have been good-natured about some of the issues that are involved with the interface.

I'd like to thank the other players for their support. Most folks are very decent and allow us to do our thing when we ask them to stand down. There's no reason for this to be an adversarial relationship - we're here to help. Monitoring behavior is a very small part of our job.

I agree that it would be a good idea for players to see a clear indication on their screen when a guide issues a command that affects them. (i.e. you have been warped to X-Y by Z)

I disagree that guides should have a clear indicator that says they are a guide. It's the the same reason that police have some unmarked cars on the road. Basically, players prone to misbehaving may mask their true behavior if they know they are around a guide, and that makes it more difficult for a guide to spot trouble.

It would seam to me that if i recieve a guide msg then i know it carries the authority of a guide, where as if i recieve a msg from a player, i can treat it as i would any player. so as long as non of the guides attempt to exert guide authority via non guide msg, there need be no confusion.
Am I then to expect that this is the agreed upon position of all guides?

Why would you treat messages from guides and non-guide peoples differently? Are you really shameless enough that the only way to calm you down is with a show of force?

My apologies for not weighing in sooner but it took me this long to catch up with all the reading I have been unable to do in the last couple of weeks.

TRS, I remember the incident you speak of and, had I known it effected you so, I would have gone to greater lengths to talk to you about it. At the time, I was engaged in a guide activity (helping someone with something over PM) and, I recall you laughed, but not heartily, at the incident. Then you logged before I could discuss it with you and reimburse you for your lost ship (as I recall, a Hornet). When a player, in a Hornet, attacks me in B8, it is knee-jerk to think that they are a slightly seasoned player that knows whom the more vocal guides are. For that knee-jerk and the subsequent ride of doom, I apologize.

Keep in mind the effects of such a move by a guide: It costs you nothing except the cost of your ship and it's contents; Possibly, a long ride back to where you were; One death in the kills/death ratio. These are not earth-shattering consequences. Neither is you killing me while messaging someone with a problem.

Is it guide abuse? If I thought for a moment that it rose to abuse, I'd hang up my guide hat.

But, because it did effect you in this manner, I will again offer my apologies and think of what else I need to look at to make sure I do not knee-jerk any other player.

"Why would you treat messages from guides and non-guide peoples differently? Are you really shameless enough that the only way to calm you down is with a show of force?"

Are you to tell me that you credit every player with whom you speak with the authority and creditials you would afford a guide? If I, as a player, tell you not to go to sector xyz, you will do as I say? If this is so, could you kindly transfer one million credits to my character? Thank you so much.

@RelayeR: I beg your pardon for placing you in this position. I do hope you understand that I was simply citing you as an example of a potential (and in our case, realized) form of misunderstanding. If I thought that the incident was to never be repeated by any one else, I may never have raised the issue. Understand, that I was still in my 30 day trial when we meet. I'm not sure if thats means I am fast learner to reach B8 in a hornet, or I'm slow witted not to know the guides. None of this changes the fact, that a guide exerting authority via player communication, undermines the guides ability to play as a player, as well as being a major potential for misunderstanding. I want guides to be guides, and players to be players, and I have no problem with you being both, as long as you are only one at a time, and communicate accordingly. If we happen to encounter each other in space, I am quite likly to shoot you on sight, if for no other reason, than that you are a red dot on my radar. If you happen to be involved in a guide activity, by all means, inform me of my folly. otherwise, i suggest you shoot back.

Screwball said:
I disagree that guides should have a clear indicator that says they are a guide.
I think the guides only turn on their "indicator" iff color when they are in-process of helping someone. (/set iff guide and /set iff default, or something like that) Kind of like a cop turning its blue-and-reds on. Warns others, announces presence, I guess it could be used for other things as well.

Okay, I know sirens are out of the question in space... but I would *love* a light bar on my ship... it'd be cool to be able to go "code 3"... (off topic, I know because it's not a *guide* issue... but rather a law enforcement issue) :)

[VPR]Seta Ralel

I like the idea of an indicator that's easily toggleable. Descent had a little envelope appear above the ship while typing...we are not that crude. How about a bright red glow around the ship with rotating blue balls to make us look radioactive?

I'm not touching the obvious joke there with a 10-foot pole.

TRS, "--Are you to tell me that you credit every player with whom you speak with the authority and creditials you would afford a guide? If I, as a player, tell you not to go to sector xyz, you will do as I say? If this is so, could you kindly transfer one million credits to my character? Thank you so much.--"

No, but if I am being obnoxious because i've had a bad day and someone messages me politely asking me to cool it because i'm making a jackass of myself it shouldnt make a difference if that player is a guide or just someone who's trying to keep the game enjoyable.

You'd be an idiot to follow instructions such as you set up above, but then again just because you can create a straw horse that doesn't even really apply to the topic of conversation doesn't make your point any more effective. It was a nice evasion of the question asked of you however. To paraphrase genka's (amazingly) pertinent question.

"Is the only way to calm you down if you are misbehaving to use force? Are you really that shameless?"

Hmmm, a really long thread ...

I don't like the idea that guides should "wear" a kind of flag to indicate them as guides or switch character every few minutes when their help is needed in channel 1 or whereever. For what reason?

Most guidenames/-characters are known when you play the game for a little while ... and if not ... will then happen what often happens when people see the police on the road? Everyone being nice and polite to each other and ... oh, guide is gone, now time to act rude?

Greetings
Linda (-:

please no more colours, think of us colourblind individuals, my radar is almost useless already!

"Is the only way to calm you down if you are misbehaving to use force? Are you really that shameless?"

I should know better that to respond to what would appear to simply be a troll.

In short, I don't believe so.
In long, well... I'm not going into the long. your statement is loaded and biased and i don't feel like typing that much at the moment.

In reguards to a guide indicator: If there was a toggle to make it so that the guide's ship was semi-transperant and unable to effect or be effected by other players, then the guide could go about guide business.

Spell & genka, I think you misunderstood TRS' intent. He was saying that any player could pretend to be a guide and issue warnings/directions in public chat and he shouldn't be encumbered with trying to figure out if it is a guide or another player trying to get an edge.

TRS, Spell is the farthest thing from a troll. Spell has done more n00b-helping than anyone I know (including most guides).

This appears to have run it's course. I'll wait a few hours and lock if inactive. The Devs are aware of the situations which sparked the concerns mentioned here and, I'm sure, will review what was done and determine what can be done to address those concerns.

I personally think that the whole situation is being blown just slightly out of proportion, and some people are missing the whole point.

Why should you treat a personal message by a guide any different from a personal message from any other normal player. If you're being a jackass, and it's bothering me, I'll ask you to stop. Guide or not (and I'm not a guide, as much as I wish I were). True, I don't have the power to make you do anything, but I can ask nicely, can't I? I'm sure that TRS doesn't mean this, but it sounds from several of his statements that if someone asks him to behave, that he'll ignore them unless they're a guide. That guides have the authority to change a person's behavior and that any lesser player doesn't, so you don't have do abide by any request by them. If that's the way you think, then yes, there need to be more guides, and they need to have the power to "make" other players behave. But that seems rather authoritarian and strict doesn't it?

I personally think that guide or not, any request to behave should be treated with respect. If you don't know that the person making the request is a guide, and you ignore them, then you're going to have to accept the consequences of your actions. But if you treat each request with respect, and change your behavior, even to the request of someone who isn't a guide, then you don't need to worry about guides overstepping their power, because they won't have a need to exert their power.

That almost makes too much sense doesn't it?

Of course, it's an absolutely unreasonable request for you to behave yourself all of the time, but you should be mature enough to recognize that if your behavior is bothering other people, that maybe you should stop to think about why it may be bothering them, and perhaps change your behavior slightly, if just for this game, so that all of us can have a good time.

You guys are talking about two different situations:

1) TSR is talking about times when someone makes a request to do something that has nothing to do with the rules of conduct (e.g. "don't attack me right now I'm doing guide stuff", "give me all you're credits I'm a guide").

2) A number of other people are talking about requests to calm down, stop being verbally abuse etc.

TSR I wouldn't worry too much about it. The only action any guide is likely to ask of you is to not attack them because they're busy. It's unlikely they'll be TOO mad if you attack them anyways, though there's a possibility they will kill you or teleport you away. For that matter if you attack any player there's a chance they will kill you. Speaking for myself (a guide) feel free to attack any of my characters, if I'm busy guiding I'll probably just ignore you. Otherwise I'll kill you the traditional way.

"Why would you treat messages from guides and non-guide peoples differently?"

Why should I not treat them differently? A guide has been choosen to act in the best interest of the playerbase. They have a responsability to act wisly, and if I disagree with them, I can ask for their decision to be reviewed. Who appointed you, and who do I appeal your decisions to? Why should I trust your judgement as much as I should trust the judgement of a guide? Am I totally missing something here? Do you really think I should give you the same credability I should give a guide? Why?

"Are you really shameless enough that the only way to calm you down is with a show of force?"

Who said I wasn't calm? Who said I do not respond to anything less than force? Your question is biased and misleading. It assumes that I am guilty of temperment and unresponsive to ordinary communication. I would like to know what you are basing these assumptions on.

(edited)
@genka: You didn't answer the questions. But, my post may very well have been also loaded and biased, so perhaps it's better you didn't. I may very well be guilty of being ill-tempered, and perhaps even shameless, however, I would like to believe that I am capable or being reasonable and civil.

To recap my points:
I am hoping to convince the guides to agree to properly identify themselves as a guide when communicating the edicts of a guide, and to otherwise assume that their communication will be recieved as if it where recieved from any other player. Will the guides form a concensus on this request and inform me of thier decision?