pirates get a huge amount of flak if they don't hail. trust me on this one. if we do hail however, a moths usual reply is "you got to be kidding me" in some way or another. :-p

the problem is that most traders have no reason to pay. their cargo isn't worth a lot in the grand scheme of things, and the odds are so good at getting away that, well, sigh.

I mean, when traders start announcing their routes to pirates to get some action, and _still_ remain at 70% after a trip through three systems, something is wrong.

Ok, I experienced this from another game.

What if someone demends you 500k or a million, would you pay? Or would you call him a useless PoD pirate?

I've paid when

a) the price is reasonable

b) the pirate is unshakeable.

Case A usually happens when I'm after faction standing. Trade run after trade run after trade run, and the last thing you want is to go back seven sectors to replace the cargo the pirate is demanding. Easier to pay him off, with some extra to leave you alone for the remainder of your stay in the game. Then again, for me money's not a problem since like Trade 7.

Case B has only happened once so far. The pirate refused to yield even before the might of the whole guild (OK, that part of the guild that was present at the moment). The guy could have cut his losses and called it a day, but pride told him otherwise. As an exercise in RPing, it was cool (even if it was a foolish thing to do as an exercise in logistics), so next time I found him (haunting once more the exact same wormhole as last time) I paid him off enough to replace some of his losses the other day. Of course, he's KOS with the Guild, but that's just part of the game, isn't it?

On the other hand, if you come in blasting I'll either fight you or run, and most of the time these days my death won't get you any cash; and had you demanded cash first you might have gotten it, and without risking some scratches to your brand-new paint job.

I'd rather just not pay, and either try to fight or run. Depending on whether I have weapons.
If NO traders ever pay, we make the job of being a pirate that MUCH harder.

I had to laugh - I was "pirated" by "0" last night, and I was in a Centaur. He was in a Rev C. I was empty at the moment, but if I had said, "OK, here's my cargo". What would he have done with it?!? The idiot. I died fighting. The cost of my ship was less then the 25K he demanded.

So, it's not just math that pirates are bad at, it's the actual THINKING. The logical order of events does not get past stage 1. Train does not leave station. Elevator does not go all the way to the top. Am I being clear?

And just so you all know, I will NEVER EVER EVER EVER pay. So stop asking. Might as well just go in shooting. Put me on some kind of "Do Not Call" List.

Oh come on, you're using 0 as an example? what similarity does he bear to any of the rest of us?

as i see it the problem is that pirating to too dificult. if there were some consequence for dying then maybee traders would be less attached to their carco and credits.

your ship and cargo may not be woth 100K but perhaps 1000 light weapons xp is.

at present you are better off trying to run from a pirate because the worst case scenario is you die and buy another ship. There are exceptions but only very few.

[addition]
anyone who expects pirates to show shivelry is a fool

also if i were to pirtate (at present it's too unprofitable) i think my method would be to criple their ship (say to about 50% armor) then demand payment. But then again i beleve in "shoot first make deals later"

Watch where you tread, "Lord Q"...

being a skill-based combat-heavy game where people are expected to die a lot, it really doesn't make much sense to penalize people for dying.. it'd become a "combat tax".. well, okay, we already have a combat tax, it's called "buying back your ship"...

anyhow, cash is pretty easy-come, easy-go right now, but XP is ANYTHING but... and think about it: traders will get pirated now and then, maybe needing to make up about 1000 xp a week until they learn to pay pirates more skilled then they are... but pirates will inevitably bite off more than they can chew on a pretty regular basis..(or, just wait for VPR to come calling). could YOU deal with needing to make 5000 xp every day, *just to break even*???

...I rest my case.

Shape wrote:
> Oh come on, you're using 0 as an example? what similarity does he bear to any of the rest of us?
I guess he bears "0" similarity! Ha! Zero! Get it? He he ... Heh? Erm... ahem
Oh, and Shape put me on the "Do Not Call" List.

well you can hardly complane about that you did ask him to.

I hail a moth when its 5%, because unless you get it to around that, its getting away.

I would like turbo thrust displayed ingame, i still dont get why it isnt.

I usually ask for 20k, and this isnt usually per encounter, although 20k may get me off your back for a week of so, usually a higher donation stays with me longer... ...If your in a moth, dont expect a hail staight away, they are hard to take down, even in a group of 3. (although I have killed a few solo ;p)

I'm with "LeberMac" on this one. Pirates? I don't even talk to them. They are anti-
social leaches. I have made a thousand trade runs. I've encountered pirates
maybe 15 times. I've been fired on three times, died twice. One time I was empty,
the other time doing a mission carrying cargo worth 29Cr each. The pirates' ship
was small, capable of carrying MAYBE 10 cu. Great days work, heh? I have the max
number of characters, ships of (almost) all kinds docked all over the universe and
millions upon millions of credits. Lose a ship? HaHaHaHa. Does the pirate no good
whatsoever!!!! "Failed Math" ??? They've failed everything!

Let's see :

(a) 4+7 = 13

(b) 1+2 = 12

(c) 17 - 4 = 174

(d) 5 x 6 = 56

Did I get them right?

You forgot to carry the 4 in d. Bad softy. Bad.

As a player I love pirates.
My character, Zathras, on the other hand fears them and wants to survive to get to the destination.

Pirates are just about the only roleplaying in the game, and I try to play along.

"Sure, mr.Pirate Sir! I'll pay you a hundred thousand credits, just let me pass on the way back too, willya?"

If the pirates just blow me up the fun in it is all gone.
I might try to run, but in a Moth full of Plasma Cores it's not very easy once they manage to get close.

Bottom line:
They possibly failed math, but they add something to an otherwise rather content-less game (for the time being), and that's worth a hundred grand to me!

I giggle insanely that we failed math.
/me looks at Alamar

I think this whole thread basically stems down to the unbalanced nature of trade ships.

Pirating is hard! Very hard!
The reason I tried pirating was to gain a perspective on it, because so many pirates were complaining about the game dynamics, and I couldn't wrap my head around why, due to my inexperience in the matter.

As a pirate you'll wait around at wormholes for a long time hoping someone will jump in and you can ambush them. Some people consider this camping, and are very against it, but it's really the only way to catch someone.
Now I know there are sometimes I do trade runs while watching TV and if someone had ambushed me like that, I'd have probably died, because my reaction time would be way too slow, but let's assume that the trader is expecting pirates.

You can basically divide traders into three categories...

1) Newbies: They actually get scared when they see a pirate hail or start getting fired upon.
These guys are pretty unpredictable because their lack of experience means they don't know what to do. Some try to run, and usually die, some try to fight and always die, and some might agree to the pirate's demands. The problem is even if they agree, they usually don't have enough money to pay, or their cargo is worthless.

2) Cocky traders: The guys who wont pay or drop their cargo because the pirate doesn't scare them.
These guys are most likely to fight, they don't think the pirate's little ship can match their big trade ship that they loaded with weapons. They usually die, and then complain, and then seek revenge. This basically ends up in the pirate forgetting about pirating for a while and adding some more PKs to his stats, can be fun for both parties depending on their moods. This category of trader usually has pretty decent cargo once you kill them, so it's not a total loss, although there's no telling how many traders will get past you while you deal with the revenge part.

3) Veterans: Experienced traders who know how to get away.
They won't fight, they wont pay the pirate, they wont drop their cargo. They will turbo away, and may or may not use mines. Only in rare circumstances will a pirate be able to kill these guys, and what's sad about that is these are the ones who would have the money to pay, and would be carrying expensive cargo.

So as I hope that maps out, your chances of getting anything worthwhile pirating are pretty slim. There are rare circumstances where someone has managed to gain pretty high levels without overcoming their newbie status and they will gladly pay you for safe passage. but when I say "rare" man is it ever. You'd be lucky to see more than 5 traders pass through a wormhole in an hour, and you'd have to hope that 1 of them has valuable cargo because the other 4 are probably carrying ores, or nothing at all.

"I think this whole thread basically stems down to the unbalanced nature of trade ships."

Can we have turbo thrust values displayed ingame please?

My way of dealing with pirates:
1)Take a centaur out
2)Equip centaur with swarms and missles up the bejeezus
3)Let the enemy get realllll close.
4)???
5)Profit!

Piro, that works?

For all you traders thinking of taking Piro's suggestion I'll note that firing missiles at a target behind you, will not hit them. Especially if they're "realllll close"