Forums » Suggestions
I like it, on the condition that they can make the hornet not suck. Maybe by taking away a weapon port and boosting maneuverability or just plain boosting maneuverability or boosting armor or something. But the hornet has always been the red-headed stepchild of the Vendetta family of ships, and its very nature as a heavy-strike fighter makes it very difficult to balance.
Although I think most people will chafe at the idea at this point simply because they don't like being limited. Maybe add an extra ship or two to each nation before slicing up the pie.
It would also help to make the ship designs stylistically different to correspond to the nations from the get go rather than trying to establish post-hoc designations.
Although I think most people will chafe at the idea at this point simply because they don't like being limited. Maybe add an extra ship or two to each nation before slicing up the pie.
It would also help to make the ship designs stylistically different to correspond to the nations from the get go rather than trying to establish post-hoc designations.
I would still prefer to keep it as it is now.
With the exception of giving the UITs all the ships that w ehave now (so exact same characteristics).
Then for each race (Itani and Serco) just create variants from this baseship based on a common adjustment. For instance 5% extra armour, -2% agility for serco ships. While +2% thrust/agility and -5% armour on itani ships. Numbers I let over to the devs to decide upon the ones htey wanna add from the backgroundstory (prefer working with trhust, armour, mass,...).
Then add some specials like the prom/valk/marauder for a light an dmedium version for all nations. This way the elite ships give each nation a feel and you can balance these elites with each other. And they have all a usage or an idea. Namely light takes out medium, medium takes out heavy, heavy takes out light (rock paper scissors). These specials also require POS(or at least if you have multiple specials the best one should be POS while the others have some sort of gradation starting at +600)
Then add at like 11 or 12 combat the focus and armormod. Which you can then give to certain ships to be more resilient against certain weapons/weapontypes. Uit have hte advantag eof being bale to mountthem both, but have NO acess to the serco or itani specials. This to somewhat keep it special and keep the nationfeel somewhat.
But this will prolly take to much time :(
With the exception of giving the UITs all the ships that w ehave now (so exact same characteristics).
Then for each race (Itani and Serco) just create variants from this baseship based on a common adjustment. For instance 5% extra armour, -2% agility for serco ships. While +2% thrust/agility and -5% armour on itani ships. Numbers I let over to the devs to decide upon the ones htey wanna add from the backgroundstory (prefer working with trhust, armour, mass,...).
Then add some specials like the prom/valk/marauder for a light an dmedium version for all nations. This way the elite ships give each nation a feel and you can balance these elites with each other. And they have all a usage or an idea. Namely light takes out medium, medium takes out heavy, heavy takes out light (rock paper scissors). These specials also require POS(or at least if you have multiple specials the best one should be POS while the others have some sort of gradation starting at +600)
Then add at like 11 or 12 combat the focus and armormod. Which you can then give to certain ships to be more resilient against certain weapons/weapontypes. Uit have hte advantag eof being bale to mountthem both, but have NO acess to the serco or itani specials. This to somewhat keep it special and keep the nationfeel somewhat.
But this will prolly take to much time :(
I agree with Phaserlight on this one.
Also, more variants of current ship designs would lessen the monotony a little.
New ships would be very exciting!.
Also, more variants of current ship designs would lessen the monotony a little.
New ships would be very exciting!.
Phaserlight,
i agree that the UIT would keep secrets. if you noticed i said that the base models should be universal, i think advanced models (MK2 and higher) should be limited. that represents the UIT developing newer and better ships but selling off the old ones, rather than destroying them to protect the old secrets they hold. It also represents the fact that being a loos grouping of coorperations eventualy somone is going to sell the plans to a secret ship. the buyer then makes their own but with less proficency due to a lack of experience with the desine.
Also a general note, the reason for having diferent ships isn't just for them to perform diferently but for them to look diferently. i think the game will be enhanced more if every natioln has ships with identicle stats but with different aperences, (rather than having them look the same but have different stats). Think of it from the perspective of a new player:
they are flying around traveling into another nation's space for the fist time. then they see a new ship that they have never seen before. Later they finde out that performance wise it is identicle to something they have seen, but the fact that it look diferent makes it seem more alian, and fitting for something found in another teratory
Additionaly if everyone has acess to ships with identicle capabilities (only to the extent they do now) but those ships look different than they have no reason to raise their enemie's faction just to buy the ship they like.
however if the ships look the same but perform diferently:
the new player ventures into enemy teratory for the first time and sees what look just like the other ships he has seen, but when he fights them he is suprised by the way they perform, the itani vulture seems more fragile than he expected, but he only found this out when he gor lucky enough to hit the agile thing.
also because there are signifigant performance issues with regard to which nation's ships you buy people will be flying cross fation ships a lot. unless the faction system gets an overhaul, it is very easy to get a hold of enemy ship desines.
idealy the ships should look and perform diferently, but if only one must be chosen i would choose that they look diferent
i agree that the UIT would keep secrets. if you noticed i said that the base models should be universal, i think advanced models (MK2 and higher) should be limited. that represents the UIT developing newer and better ships but selling off the old ones, rather than destroying them to protect the old secrets they hold. It also represents the fact that being a loos grouping of coorperations eventualy somone is going to sell the plans to a secret ship. the buyer then makes their own but with less proficency due to a lack of experience with the desine.
Also a general note, the reason for having diferent ships isn't just for them to perform diferently but for them to look diferently. i think the game will be enhanced more if every natioln has ships with identicle stats but with different aperences, (rather than having them look the same but have different stats). Think of it from the perspective of a new player:
they are flying around traveling into another nation's space for the fist time. then they see a new ship that they have never seen before. Later they finde out that performance wise it is identicle to something they have seen, but the fact that it look diferent makes it seem more alian, and fitting for something found in another teratory
Additionaly if everyone has acess to ships with identicle capabilities (only to the extent they do now) but those ships look different than they have no reason to raise their enemie's faction just to buy the ship they like.
however if the ships look the same but perform diferently:
the new player ventures into enemy teratory for the first time and sees what look just like the other ships he has seen, but when he fights them he is suprised by the way they perform, the itani vulture seems more fragile than he expected, but he only found this out when he gor lucky enough to hit the agile thing.
also because there are signifigant performance issues with regard to which nation's ships you buy people will be flying cross fation ships a lot. unless the faction system gets an overhaul, it is very easy to get a hold of enemy ship desines.
idealy the ships should look and perform diferently, but if only one must be chosen i would choose that they look diferent
So, let me make sure I understand this.
You would advocate letting Serco and Itani have the Warthog, Hornet (and Marauder) basic variants, while giving the UIT the advanced variants of those ships?
I'd have to disagree... you give a very convincing argument that the ship *model* makes a bigger impression on players than the actual stats of the ship, and even though the UIT are by definition "loosely affiliated" I think it would be a mistake to only give them ship types that could also be found everywhere else in the universe. Shouldn't a player who wanders into UIT territory also feel like they are in a different nation with its own personality and unique look?
Even though the UIT are loosely affiliated amongst themselves, don't they have a bitter history with the Serco, and aren't they inherently distrustful of the Itani? I still don't think they would share military designs with either the Itani or the Serco. As the saying goes "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." The fact that the UIT are loosely affiliated, corporately competative and innovative would show up in the designs of their military ships. Each corporation would probably have its own variant of a particular military ship (take the Orion Hornet Convoy Guardian, for example), but I don't think you'd see those models being copied by the Serco or Itani. We're trying to give each nation its own particular feel here.
You would advocate letting Serco and Itani have the Warthog, Hornet (and Marauder) basic variants, while giving the UIT the advanced variants of those ships?
I'd have to disagree... you give a very convincing argument that the ship *model* makes a bigger impression on players than the actual stats of the ship, and even though the UIT are by definition "loosely affiliated" I think it would be a mistake to only give them ship types that could also be found everywhere else in the universe. Shouldn't a player who wanders into UIT territory also feel like they are in a different nation with its own personality and unique look?
Even though the UIT are loosely affiliated amongst themselves, don't they have a bitter history with the Serco, and aren't they inherently distrustful of the Itani? I still don't think they would share military designs with either the Itani or the Serco. As the saying goes "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." The fact that the UIT are loosely affiliated, corporately competative and innovative would show up in the designs of their military ships. Each corporation would probably have its own variant of a particular military ship (take the Orion Hornet Convoy Guardian, for example), but I don't think you'd see those models being copied by the Serco or Itani. We're trying to give each nation its own particular feel here.
i only ment that the warthog MK1, and the hornet MK1 should be available universaly an the should be listed as "UIT surpluss Warthog", (and the same for the hornet) in the description when bought at an itani or secro station. it may not have been clear from my post but i never intended for the merauder to be universal.
I think that the UIT should feal different from the itani and secro, but not as diferent as the itani and secro are from each other.
also because only the MK1s are available outside of uit space i think that the warthog and hornet would be rarely used by itani and secro players, given that they can buy advanced versions of their oun nation's ships. the ocasional itani or secro pileted hog, would in my opinion re inforce the idea that the UIT are the best merchants, and better define their place in the galaxy.
also, for the record my main character is UIT, so i'm not saying this without concidering the effect it would have on UIT players.
I think that the UIT should feal different from the itani and secro, but not as diferent as the itani and secro are from each other.
also because only the MK1s are available outside of uit space i think that the warthog and hornet would be rarely used by itani and secro players, given that they can buy advanced versions of their oun nation's ships. the ocasional itani or secro pileted hog, would in my opinion re inforce the idea that the UIT are the best merchants, and better define their place in the galaxy.
also, for the record my main character is UIT, so i'm not saying this without concidering the effect it would have on UIT players.
How about altering the ship models slightly for the advanced variants? Like the centurions with 2 S ports having an extra gun on the base, the Orion hornet having a bi-wedge nose, the TD warthog having a pair of extra thrusters tacked on, the Skycommand having larger exhaust ports, just small modifications like those to give them a more unique look.
Perhaps add emblems of the various factions/nations on their own special ships.
Perhaps add emblems of the various factions/nations on their own special ships.
I still don't know what a secro is.
This way each nation has seven classes of ships available to them, which is more than enough imho.
NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
If anything, we need *many more* ships. After a certain point, you just aren't going to keep the same people interested in the same plastic models.
That having been said, I think that yes, we should definitely have many more ships be dedicated to the different areas of the universe/factions. I've already started remodeling the game's ships so we can have more variation with less plastic ships, while not having to mix up the whole balance with what we currently have.
Let's see some new ships! Please!
NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
If anything, we need *many more* ships. After a certain point, you just aren't going to keep the same people interested in the same plastic models.
That having been said, I think that yes, we should definitely have many more ships be dedicated to the different areas of the universe/factions. I've already started remodeling the game's ships so we can have more variation with less plastic ships, while not having to mix up the whole balance with what we currently have.
Let's see some new ships! Please!
Harry, having more ships doesn't conflict with my suggestion. I agree, we should have more ships.
What I am saying is that the military ships we already have should be divided among the three nations like the valk, maud and prom already are, and we can keep adding more ships to each nation from there.
It gives each nation more of a unique "feel." I think people would actually become *less* bored with the "same plastic models" when they venture into another nation's space and see all the foreign types of ships flying around.
They might just decide to stick around that nation long enough to get one for themselves.
What I am saying is that the military ships we already have should be divided among the three nations like the valk, maud and prom already are, and we can keep adding more ships to each nation from there.
It gives each nation more of a unique "feel." I think people would actually become *less* bored with the "same plastic models" when they venture into another nation's space and see all the foreign types of ships flying around.
They might just decide to stick around that nation long enough to get one for themselves.
Eh....
1. They still look plastic: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v178/Dimpfinator/VOvsFS.jpg
2. I *do* agree with your suggestion, but I have a problem with Wraith being Itani only. You'd really have to change around some license requirements for Serco & UIT traders to be able to use tradeships like the Atlas earlier, as well as the Vulture (eh, I think). Your suggestion also doesn't really give Itani a bomber (Rag).
Right now, I'm thinking that the Mk 1 version of the standard ships should be available for these purposes. Dunno though..... :-/
1. They still look plastic: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v178/Dimpfinator/VOvsFS.jpg
2. I *do* agree with your suggestion, but I have a problem with Wraith being Itani only. You'd really have to change around some license requirements for Serco & UIT traders to be able to use tradeships like the Atlas earlier, as well as the Vulture (eh, I think). Your suggestion also doesn't really give Itani a bomber (Rag).
Right now, I'm thinking that the Mk 1 version of the standard ships should be available for these purposes. Dunno though..... :-/
Yeah I know this may be a little tricky to balance, just a thought though...
I mean, we have 13 ship models, and people say there's not much difference between the 3 nations... I was just trying to think of a way to create a little diversity without necessarily adding content.
Remember the Wraith technically *is* classified as a bomber. Maybe the Itani could get special version at higher levels that had more armor and thrust. From the backstory it seemed that Itani specialized more in light, maneuverable fighters anyway.
I'd also like to know what people think about having faction-specific station guards and strike forces. i.e. Serco would send SVGs and SCPs after you while Itani would sic the IBG cent and Valk on ya.
I mean, we have 13 ship models, and people say there's not much difference between the 3 nations... I was just trying to think of a way to create a little diversity without necessarily adding content.
Remember the Wraith technically *is* classified as a bomber. Maybe the Itani could get special version at higher levels that had more armor and thrust. From the backstory it seemed that Itani specialized more in light, maneuverable fighters anyway.
I'd also like to know what people think about having faction-specific station guards and strike forces. i.e. Serco would send SVGs and SCPs after you while Itani would sic the IBG cent and Valk on ya.
okay. i notice that this thread is quite old, but i'll comment anyway since it's been brought back.
The original idea is horrible. Nothing against phaserlight, but it was HORRIBLE. Remember the backstory - the Serco got the Itani ships by trading with the UIT who had already traded with the Itani.
Now, I agree with the stuff about getting new nation specific ships. But I don't know how easy that would be for the devs to do that - it depends on how modular the stuff that controls the ships is.
oh well.
The original idea is horrible. Nothing against phaserlight, but it was HORRIBLE. Remember the backstory - the Serco got the Itani ships by trading with the UIT who had already traded with the Itani.
Now, I agree with the stuff about getting new nation specific ships. But I don't know how easy that would be for the devs to do that - it depends on how modular the stuff that controls the ships is.
oh well.
okay. i notice that this thread is quite old, but i'll comment anyway since it's been brought back.
I brought it back because of the ship balance update, and I wanted to discuss this some more under that context and with new players.
The original idea is horrible. Nothing against phaserlight, but it was HORRIBLE. Remember the backstory - the Serco got the Itani ships by trading with the UIT who had already traded with the Itani.
Exactly. They got trade ships. That's why I suggest keeping the trade ships international. If you recall it also says in the backstory the Itani didn't allow the UIT a lot of technology because of their distrust. Trade brings nations together, war keeps them apart.
Now, I agree with the stuff about getting new nation specific ships. But I don't know how easy that would be for the devs to do that - it depends on how modular the stuff that controls the ships is.
Would you elaborate on why you think we should get new nation specific ships, but it would be horrible to divide the ones we already have? According to the one argument you gave, Serco and Itani should not have nation specific ships because they mutually trade with UIT. You then go on to contradict yourself by saying we should add new nation specific ships.
If you disagree that nations should have unique military technologies, then why do you suggest adding more nation specific ships?
I brought it back because of the ship balance update, and I wanted to discuss this some more under that context and with new players.
The original idea is horrible. Nothing against phaserlight, but it was HORRIBLE. Remember the backstory - the Serco got the Itani ships by trading with the UIT who had already traded with the Itani.
Exactly. They got trade ships. That's why I suggest keeping the trade ships international. If you recall it also says in the backstory the Itani didn't allow the UIT a lot of technology because of their distrust. Trade brings nations together, war keeps them apart.
Now, I agree with the stuff about getting new nation specific ships. But I don't know how easy that would be for the devs to do that - it depends on how modular the stuff that controls the ships is.
Would you elaborate on why you think we should get new nation specific ships, but it would be horrible to divide the ones we already have? According to the one argument you gave, Serco and Itani should not have nation specific ships because they mutually trade with UIT. You then go on to contradict yourself by saying we should add new nation specific ships.
If you disagree that nations should have unique military technologies, then why do you suggest adding more nation specific ships?
Phaserlight, I wholeheartly agree with having nation specific gaurds. For example:
The UIT might have territorial defenders for its station guards and basic mauraders for its strike forces.
The Serco might have SVGs for its station guards and Skycommand Proms for its strike forces.
The Itani might have IBG for its station guards and IDF Viligant Valks for its strike forces.
TPG might have Atlas Xs for its station guards and Maurader Xs for its strike forces.
Corvus might have its Vulture for its station guards and its Maurader for its strike forces. (if they have strike forces?)
My idea here was to put the ship which can chase the player for a ways as the strike force while putting the ship that can boost quickly to a conflict as the station gaurd. The rest of the factions would be set up in the same way; however, if they did not have enough unique ships then I'd suggest that they just use the UITs ships for the slot(s) that they cannot fill. If anyone wants more examples I can supply them.
The UIT might have territorial defenders for its station guards and basic mauraders for its strike forces.
The Serco might have SVGs for its station guards and Skycommand Proms for its strike forces.
The Itani might have IBG for its station guards and IDF Viligant Valks for its strike forces.
TPG might have Atlas Xs for its station guards and Maurader Xs for its strike forces.
Corvus might have its Vulture for its station guards and its Maurader for its strike forces. (if they have strike forces?)
My idea here was to put the ship which can chase the player for a ways as the strike force while putting the ship that can boost quickly to a conflict as the station gaurd. The rest of the factions would be set up in the same way; however, if they did not have enough unique ships then I'd suggest that they just use the UITs ships for the slot(s) that they cannot fill. If anyone wants more examples I can supply them.
I really like what Pixelcat just suggested. However, I disagree with having Atlas X's for TPG's station guards. One does not put a trade ship, no matter how beefed up, as a station guard. I'd say Maud X or Territorial Defender for Station guards.
I agree on the Strike Force/ Station Guard idea! it would be cool
<b>From the Backstory - Section 12, AD 4346:</b>
<i>Now equipped with Xi-rite armored ships and more efficient gravitic pulse engines, the Serco begin to militarily match up with their enemy.</i>
So... it matters little who has what ships since the technology is the same. And a ship is just the whole of it's parts. And according to the backstory, the Serco got most of the critical parts.
I still say keep the ship setup how it is now, with the exception of adding more nation-specific military ships.
<i>Now equipped with Xi-rite armored ships and more efficient gravitic pulse engines, the Serco begin to militarily match up with their enemy.</i>
So... it matters little who has what ships since the technology is the same. And a ship is just the whole of it's parts. And according to the backstory, the Serco got most of the critical parts.
I still say keep the ship setup how it is now, with the exception of adding more nation-specific military ships.
[ka-stamp: Approval!]
I'd like to see an Itani special Wraith, and a Serco special Ragnarok. Then the Itani would have 2 special light ships (Valk & IBG), and 1 special heavy ship (Wraith), and the the Serco would have 2 special heavy ships (Prom & Rag), and 1 special light ship (SVG).