Hmm, after reading that the sercs are doing quite badly , i had an idea, dunno if its been discussed before

What about if the losing nation got a % boost on all exp gained the next week? this could be say 10% every consecutive week, so if sercs lost 3 weeks in a row they would be getting 30% boost on all exp gained the next week, this should enable a losing nation to improve quicker, giving them a chance to win, then once they win they lose all % gains, also this may influence which nation people choose (ie ooh if i play serco ill be able to level faster for a bit)

Yes i nicked the idea from helbreath (i think)

Karr Soulblade

O.o That'd be a better reward for losing, than the N3's for winning. Everyone, start taking Purified Xithricite to your enemy! Just to make sure you know, the nation that lost the previous round of CtC is already given a surplus. The surplus is 20% of that nation's deliveries from the previous round, including any previous surplus they may have had from losing the round two rounds ago. If you think they still need a larger handicap, IMO it'd be a better suggestion to increase the surplus to 25% or 30%, rather than introducing new rewards for losing.

Also, it's not due to Serco players having lower levels that they've been losing, it's just that not as many Serco players have even been participating, for various reasons.

ahh ok, was unaware of the surplus, yeah perhaps increasing the %surplus each consecutive loss might be better

thatll teach me to use me head ;-)

Ok maybe they'll bother to do some ctc when they have a surplus of 1900cu :-P

The surplus would never be that high. Usually the surplus is between 250-400, meaning the losing nation had delivered between 1250 & 2000 units. In order to get a surplus of 1900, they'd need to have delivered 9500 units in the round that they lost. Not only is it very unlikely that they would lose a round that they delivered that many units in, but 9500 is well over double the total units delivered to BOTH nations in a single round.

Check out the Cargo Captures page & look at some of the previous weeks stats, that should give a good idea of how the scoring works. http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/ctfstats/

The FAQ section on CtC is also a good read, if I do say so myself. http://www.ratelis.com/guide/faq.html#_Part_H._CAPTURE_THE%20CARGO

I've noticed a pattern of CTC winners swinging back and forth between nations. There is no need to modify the way CTC works because of this. there is another factor involving player activity dynamics that is affecting the way CTC is won/lost.

How about the devs just make the ctc route fair?
I'll start doing ctc again.
1 person is enough to change the Dev's work schedule right?
:P

/givemoney Devs 2c

and decrease the cargocapacity from the cents+valks while we are at it... A cargotransport with 2 or 3 max would be more hten adequate.

I can so easilly zoom past umpty defenders while im in it and it involves me just pressing the boost button.

And please up the cargo in 1 transport, we have behemoths, why not let a behemoth transport the cargo? this way it is way easier to actually keep one alive...

lol just made me chuckle at the idea of changing the CtC rules b/c the serco have been losing repeatedly...It wasn't that long ago that I remember the Itani being in that position, until they finally decided collectively they had had enough and were going to turn it around... :)

Now THAT was an interesting round of CtC :)

--mcn

hmmm, I seem to recall the serco deciding that after winning for 5 weeks in a row it was time to give the itani a break and back off for a few weeks, mostly because winning the CtC was starting to feel like a "job" to many of us.
I recall several serco players and vets creating "disposable" itani characters to help the itani win a round or two to get thier morale back up.
I seem to recall it was because all the itani were whining that they weren't able to compete with the serco veteran players even tho there were 2 itani for every serco participating. Also the CtC routes are unbalanced in the itani favor, and its much easier for itani new players to get involved.
the IBG Cent is an excellent ship and availible at what, level 2? while the serco gaurdian Vulture which is not quite as good (almost but not quite) and not availible till level 4.

Additionally most of the serco vets are not playing as much as we were right after release because that annoying distraction called real life is getting in the way.

Lastly, the sheer number of itani means that serco players have to work at the ctc twice as many hours/player/week to have the same number of man hours invested as the itani do.

And we were requesting that the routes be made fair even when we were WINNING, because we saw the problem coming. At the time the itani involved basically told us to shut up we were winning and that the routes didnt matter.

Still cracks me up that in a game called "VENDETTA" which is a feud between two families or clans that arises out of a slaying and is perpetuated by retaliatory acts of revenge, aka, a blood feud, revolves around (in the end game) a trade route and cargo!!!! The end game should revolve around combat and warfare over this blood feud between the Serco and the Itani. If ANYONE should be worried about and participating in CtC it should be UIT since they are the traders. Boarder disputes need to occur more frequently with frigates and NPC combatants, not simply the strikeforces that are common place.

CTC is boring as hell, and it's usefullness as a way to generate pvp action is way out dated IMO. And the reward for winning is hardly ever used. I think I go up against 1 maybe 2 people a WEEK that use Neut3's.

Incredible. Take a timer, guys, and see whose route is "shorter".

Are the lengths really that unequal? I know the Itani route seems looooong...never done the Serco route though...

And I wasn't objecting to any changes to the routes, just finding the thread amusing, that's all :)

--mcn

me wonders if a route starting from Latos going through ukari and then helios so on untill Pyronis and then the next one (beleive sol not sure) isn't fairer then...

I was thinking about starting it at Latos c3 (I believe) station

this way each has that outpoststation they so wanted... and prolly the lengths will be just as long (not sure)

This "unfairness" has been so beaten to death.

Other than the station at Edras I2, I think the transports takes about the same time to reach their respective destinations on average. Also there are storms etc along the way, so the little difference in length is probably negligible. The thing is that the transport are stupid, so they don't always go the "best route", especially when they warp out of the WH.

Anyway, the transport "distance" matter very little in actual ctc battles. BLAK hits both serco and itani voys, and we don't find any difference. If anything, the actual human escorts of those voys matter so much more than the structure of the routes themselves. The station in Edras also does not really matter : if the serco voy gets to Ukari, chances are it'll be safe already.

(I've always wondered why people don't hit the voys in Edras/Ukari instead, since you can grab the cargo and run through UIT space and since most players want to keep their UIT standing, you are usually already safe....)

It is not a secret that most voy battles are won or lost in Sedina B8 or Bractus E2.

and its much easier to kill a voy in b-8 than it is in e-2 since the transports move for ~6k in b-8 and only ~1k in e-2.

The routes take the same amount of time to complete the total distance, however as a simple experement do the following.

some time when you are planning to do something non-computer related, (i know this is a stretch for some of you, but it could happen)
1 open vendetta
2 do a /leave for all channels EXCEPT 201-202
3 leave running for around 6 hours.
4 before you do anything else in vendetta after the 6 hours, open the errors.log and check the timestamps on the convoys. take an average of how long they spend in transit before they get to "safe" space, that is behind defbots in sectors where attacking players have to dodge strikeforces AND play catch the convoy.
You will find that the itani convoy consistently spends ~ 40-55% of the time it is on its route in "safe" space, while the serco convoy spends only around 15-20% of its time in flight in "safe" space.
wile there is some effect from the occasional storm, particularly on the itani voy as if it gets caught in edras it adds a significant amount of time compared to how long it takes to do the rest of the "dangerous" part of its trip, as the storms are totally random and affect both sides equally, they can be pretty much ignored.

Answer to your one question, "why dont people hit the voys in edras/ukari?" Because if you miss its inside defbot space. You only have 1 shot in edras, and even the second chance in ukari A-10 isnt enough to justify waiting that long to try.

Its the same theory the german U-Boats used during WWII in attacking shipping right off the american coast. Even if some slips past, there are other chances to maybe get it later on. Wait till its off the english coast and if you miss your chance its safe and out of reach.

I Have done CtC for both sides (and no i'm not telling anyone who my itani character was, it was just an experement anyhow and he has since been deleted) The itani route is definitely more defender friendly with the short wormhole jumps, because an attacker has that much less time to charge his/her battery and do damage. Early in the week when theres only 1 or 2 slow transports that doesnt matter AS much, but for thursday/friday/saturday, it matters a lot when the majority of the cargo is moving.

It doesn't really matter tho, there isn't much point to the CtC, but as the itani pointed out when they were loosing, "its not any fun when you dont think you have a chance"
I know the serco can put up a good fight, but as far as i'm concerned its not worth putting out the effort needed to overcome both the route problems and the 2-1 itani/serco player ratio, I have a real life that causes me enough stress, i get on vendetta to relieve some of it, not to add to it.

Yes it's true, the routes are not identical and are therefore unequal. I would probably agree that the Itani route has a slight advantage. But I would say the #1 factor in deciding who wins & loses is not the routes, or the ships. Player participation is by far more important. If you don't play, you can't win. And I disagreed with Itani players when they said "it's not any fun when you don't think you have a chance," and I'll disagree with any Serco who say it now. I had a blast playing CtC when I was the only defender and 4 Serco jumped in. I have a lot of fun fighting SCPs in my IDF Valk today. Do you think I win those very often?

And if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. If you don't play CtC, you are contibuting towards your nation losing.

There is no safe space for the Serco convoy. Even if the station in Initros is almost within the wormhole. Even if the transport spends 30 seconds in Initros D2. Even if it spends hardly more in the Pyronis side. Even if it jumps almost directly into Catequil Outpost's NFZ. It is not safe at all. Anywhere.

-You- choose to play it safe.

Don't blame it on the route.

I'm not having this argument again. I choose not to play CtC because no matter what lame arguments you present, the routes ARE mathematically unbalanced. I'm not fighting AGAINST statistics, I probably would participate if it was only the number of itani players that was causing the imbalance as that is not really something that the devs could change easily.
But the sheer frustration of having the itani transport make all its jumps into "safe" space in less than 2 minutes, (and it has done so in the past) while the serco convoy takes at least 5 is not something i'm going to subject myself to.

I play the game for entertainment, I DO follow and defend the serco convoy when i'm online so that i can get some PvP action, and have a lot of fun doing so.

I never said the transport was completely safe anywhere, just that it was in "safe" space and therefore MUCH harder to attack succesfully unless you resort to cheesy tactics such as having someone who is admired follow the trans and getting someone else who doesnt care about reputation to blow it up for them.

I know that my opinion on this matter will be considered invalid by many people, but I think Capture the Cargo should be replaced entirely in the near future by something like the Attack the Nemesis.
-:sigma.SB